Combined CMG thread - please don't start new ones...

[bamabryan]

Re: How do you judge CMG?

CMG's record is "respectable." I, for one, am not satisfied with that...

Bingo.

I've grown so tired of being very average for the last few years.

This is certainly not all on CMG shoulders, but it's ridiculous that we have never been to the Final Four. Particularly considering some of the talent we've had.

 

[bamadoc94]

Re: Perception of Gottfried's performance: A matter of perspective

My opinion only, but sometimes, we are stuck with an image of how good something was........I sort of liken it to Mork and Mindy......when I was a kid, I absolutely loved that show.......looking back at it now, it's virtually impossible to watch. I'm not making a direct contrast, but what I'm saying is, is that sometimes when we reach back for memories, we tend to remember the good, and forget the bad. You will still have people on here that claim the Sweet 16 team with McKey, Ansley, Farmer, Gottfried, Conner, Askins and company was the most talented team that we ever had........and they didn't win it all. Some older fans still believe that the Anthony Murray, TR Dunn, Rickey Brown, Reggie King team were the most talented...........while others will claim the Horry, Sprewell, Robinson, Cheatem group was the best.

We've had great teams, many prior to CMG....and NONE of them won the whole thing either.......and NONE of them got even close.......but when we look back at them now, we remember the winning games, the heartbreak losses with a smile....... but the younger fans will remember the Elite 8 run with the same vigor that we remember Cheatems shot hanging on the rim vs Marymount and dream "what if".......

At the time, many fans and media were claiming that Wimp was only good enough to get us to the Sweet 16, that because he didnt' play a long bench, that he never would get us all the way. They said that because he didn't emphasize a true center, that we would never go all the way........ now we look back and think that "only if we still had wimp" we would win the whole thing........but if Wimp had shortcomings then, wouldn't he still have them now?

You found Wimp during a time when you were able to give Alabama Basketball some of your time and your emotion, so you have an emotional tie to it, I get that.........trust me, I do as well........I came up during that same era. I used to imagine being Terry Conner passing to McKey from the baseline....for the scoop and two points at the buzzer, I get it........but, just because it's the basketball YOU hold most dear, doesn't mean it was worthy of Hall of Fame material.

Excellent post, but you continually refer to "not winning it all". Any BBall fan (with only a few schools being the exception) who expects his team to "win it all" as a measuring stick for success is crazy. Winning the NCAA trny is no small feat regardless of how good your team is. With the parity we see today it is not fair to "expect" to win the trny. What we should "expect" is what you mentioned regarding CM and WS's teams, winning 10 or more games in the conference, watching the selection show to see what seed we will get (not if we got in or not), winning those opening round games and getting to the second weekend regularly, reaching the finals of the SEC trny, and playing a quality brand of BBall. Even Coach K at Duke took a while to win one, but made a string of sweet sixteens, eventually cracked the final four, then went on to win multiple titles. To win it all it helps to get there on a regular basis and have players with trny experience, more importantly experience playing deep into the trny. Making one Elite Eight run with several early exits does not fit that scenario, regardless of where your heart lies.

 

[bamadoc94]

Re: How do you judge CMG?

Coach K seems to handle the depth problem, for the entire three quarters century you indicate, whereas we always work our way down to seven guys who rotate until they drop. And I'll second that we seem to recruit athletic guys who are then pressed into an offense which would be better served by Vandy's personnel (whom I fear are going to stomp our tail). I come back to the same point - after nine years, going on ten, you have a very good benchmark for what a coach is going to do and how he's going to perform from now on. How you come down on this should be based on how you regard those nine years. If you're satisfied, then our dialog really is going nowhere and it's no wonder that these threads keep proliferating. If you buy into the annual disaster story routine we go through, and you think that we grab the brass ring the next season, then I'd have to think you're delusional. CMG's record is "respectable." I, for one, am not satisfied with that...

Great post!! Especially the part about recruiting less athletic guys who would be better suited and stick around four years. You could also say that guys like Gerald Wallace may have stuck around longer if they played in a system better suited to their skills where they could showcase their talents. You can't fault a guy for leaving early after having a big year and a chance at big money, but for Gerald Wallace it was more a case of get out before his status dropped any further. He was clearly unhappy about the way he was being used at UA, and CMG's supposed plans for him the following year.

 

[TideAlum]

Re: Perception of Gottfried's performance: A matter of perspective

While I did thoroughly enjoy the Sanderson years (who wouldn't have?) and have at times been a guest in his home, I don't, as one has suggested have an emotional attachment to him and I'm not looking to bring him back.

Mmm...okay. If you had explained your relationship with Wimp during your initial post, I wouldn't have argued with you. You obviously have a personal stake in seeing Wimp placed on a pedestal. I'm sure it pains you that the current coach of a team and program that often "sucks" (your description, not mine) accomplished goals that the great Wimp never did. Oh, and he didn't slap any women around in the process...

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Re: Perception of Gottfried's performance: A matter of perspective

CMG made it to the E8 once. Other than that, what are his accomplishments which overshadow Wimp's?

 

[BamaMan34]

Re: How do you judge CMG?

I come back to the same point - after nine years, going on ten, you have a very good benchmark for what a coach is going to do and how he's going to perform from now on. How you come down on this should be based on how you regard those nine years. If you're satisfied, then our dialog really is going nowhere and it's no wonder that these threads keep proliferating. If you buy into the annual disaster story routine we go through, and you think that we grab the brass ring the next season, then I'd have to think you're delusional. CMG's record is "respectable." I, for one, am not satisfied with that...

I still don't understand why you were ok with Wimp's body of work and not CMG's.

 

[BamaLaw]

Re: Perception of Gottfried's performance: A matter of perspective

Mmm...okay. If you had explained your relationship with Wimp during your initial post, I wouldn't have argued with you. You obviously have a personal stake in seeing Wimp placed on a pedestal. I'm sure it pains you that the current coach of a team and program that often "sucks" (your description, not mine) accomplished goals that the great Wimp never did. Oh, and he didn't slap any women around in the process...

I don't have a relationship with Wimp. I've not seen him in person in many years.

NO! I don't have a personal stake in seeing Wimp placed on a pedestal, and I most certainly do not place him on one. As Annette once said, "I know Wimp has his faults; however, I know he never..." As a matter of fact, I place no person on a pedestal. None is worthy of such.

I don't care who the coach is. I want the program to be relevant again. Is that too much to ask? It began to head toward irrelevance during Hobbs' tenure. I believe we all thought it was headed back to respectability when Gottfried had his breakthrough year to the E-8. I doubt that anyone was more thrilled to see Bama in the E-8 than was Wimp. He saw one of his own accomplish something that his teams never did and I'm sure he was proud.

Now, I don't know where all the venom I'm sensing is coming from. I have nothing against Gottfried the person. I'm just quite certain that he is not the coach that Bama needs and I truly believe he has taken Bama as far as he can and will and that he is not the one who can get us back to where even he himself had us a few years back. It's time for a change.

 

[bamadoc94]

Re: How do you judge CMG?

I still don't understand why you were ok with Wimp's body of work and not CMG's.

What is so hard about this? CWS's teams made regular appearances in the sweet sixteen(6 I think), while CMG made one trip to the E8. CWS won the SEC trny twice and made the finals numerous times, CMG has won 0 SEC trnys and made the final once. CWS's teams played valiantly even in their losses, their opponents knew they had accomplished something when they beat
uA. CMG's teams have disappeared at times, and suffered some humiliating losses. CWS's teams were tenacious and always fundamentally sound, CMG's teams have lacked basic fundamentals and at times do not play with intensity. I could go on, but this should be sufficient. The comparison goes beyond winning percentage and stats, it has to do with the brand of bball and the way Wimps teams played night in and night out. I also think that a string of sweet sixteens trumps a lone trip to the E8 with no other trips past the first wekend.

 

[BAMA1979]

Re: How do you judge CMG?

What is so hard about this? CWS's teams made regular appearances in the sweet sixteen(6 I think), while CMG made one trip to the E8. CWS won the SEC trny twice and made the finals numerous times, CMG has won 0 SEC trnys and made the final once. CWS's teams played valiantly even in their losses, their opponents knew they had accomplished something when they beat
uA. CMG's teams have disappeared at times, and suffered some humiliating losses. CWS's teams were tenacious and always fundamentally sound, CMG's teams have lacked basic fundamentals and at times do not play with intensity. I could go on, but this should be sufficient. The comparison goes beyond winning percentage and stats, it has to do with the brand of bball and the way Wimps teams played night in and night out. I also think that a string of sweet sixteens trumps a lone trip to the E8 with no other trips past the first wekend.

Wimp won 5 SEC Tournaments. Should strengthen your argument. :biggrin2:

 

[TideAlum]

Re: Perception of Gottfried's performance: A matter of perspective

CMG made it to the E8 once. Other than that, what are his accomplishments which overshadow Wimp's?

You're right it was only once. I find it amusing that many of our fans seek to discredit that accomplishment while making excuses for why Wimp's teams could never get that far.

 

[BAMA1979]

Re: Perception of Gottfried's performance: A matter of perspective

You're right it was only once. I find it amusing that many of our fans seek to discredit that accomplishment while making excuses for why Wimp's teams could never get that far.

Yes, we know that CMG's team made it to the Elite 8 in 2004, but you never mention that CMG's teams have largely failed in postseason tournaments. Now, what I would like to know is why we have made just one appearance in the SEC Tournament finals and one trip to the second weekend of the NCAA Tournament in 8 seasons. CMG is just 5-5 in NCAA Tournament games and 4-8 in SEC Tournament games.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Re: Perception of Gottfried's performance: A matter of perspective

First, let me say we are going to lay off the personal attacks or we won't be posting at all. If one thing should have been made obvious by all the foregoing posts, it is that the fan base is divided on CMG's reign. I count myself as in "neutral" at the moment. As I've said before, I'm afraid that the nine years we've had are exactly what we get for the next nine years. Someone characterized it as "respectable," and I guess that's a good term for it. Another year of "respectable" BB, and I'll be calling for his head also. Right now, I'll buy the excuse du jour and see how he does with RS back. I'll remind everyone that it'll be his tenth year. Any Bama FB coach with a similar record, if next year is a ten-peat, would be on the hot seat..

 

[BamaMan34]

Re: How do you judge CMG?

CWS's teams played valiantly even in their losses, their opponents knew they had accomplished something when they beat
uA. CMG's teams have disappeared at times, and suffered some humiliating losses. CWS's teams were tenacious and always fundamentally sound, CMG's teams have lacked basic fundamentals and at times do not play with intensity. I could go on, but this should be sufficient. The comparison goes beyond winning percentage and stats, it has to do with the brand of bball and the way Wimps teams played night in and night out. I also think that a string of sweet sixteens trumps a lone trip to the E8 with no other trips past the first wekend.

Everything above is subjective but I think what you're saying is we use to get moral victories and now we don't. If our goal is the Final Four who cares if you go home the first weekend or the Friday night of the second weekend.

 

[bamadoc94]

Re: How do you judge CMG?

Everything above is subjective but I think what you're saying is we use to get moral victories and now we don't. If our goal is the Final Four who cares if you go home the first weekend or the Friday night of the second weekend.

Because the more times you get to the sweet sixteen the greater your odds of breaking through to the final four. If you'll notice, most of the teams that make the final four have a track record of making the sweet sixteen on a regular basis. Sure there are those teams that get hot a the right time(George Mason) but where were they before and where are they now? I never said anything about moral victories, but Wimp's teams consistently played on a higher level night in and night out. I for one enjoy victories in the regular season, and conference championships as well. I realize the NCAA trny is the big prize, but only one of about 300 D1 bball teams gets to take that one home. There is no shame in hanging SEC Championship banners from the rafters on a regular basis and enjoying some big wins during the season. Wimp beat some teams like UCLA, Georgetown, and North Carolina to name a few. Had we been a regular in the sweet sixteen the last few years maybe we wouldn't have missed on those last couple of big recruits we were after. If you want to talk about "moral victories" CMG is your man. Just look at GT the other night, the rhettoric following that game sounded just like we were claiming a "moral victory". Look at the body of work. Stop summing everything up based on one win, during one hot stretch of 3 games. The best team CMG was a two seed and lost in the second round, the reason being cited as a lack of trny experience by both the coach and the players. Get to the sweet sixteen regularly and develop a comfort level playing on that stage. I know Wimp didn't get past there , but they played well enough to win and were not overwhelmed they were just a little snakebit.

 

[wardaddy]

Re: How do you judge CMG?

CMG is a great recruiter, average coach. I personally would like to see him go, but as long as fans keep coming to games, he'll stay.

 

[CajunCrimson]

Re: Perception of Gottfried's performance: A matter of perspective

First, let me say we are going to lay off the personal attacks or we won't be posting at all. If one thing should have been made obvious by all the foregoing posts, it is that the fan base is divided on CMG's reign. I count myself as in "neutral" at the moment. As I've said before, I'm afraid that the nine years we've had are exactly what we get for the next nine years. Someone characterized it as "respectable," and I guess that's a good term for it. Another year of "respectable" BB, and I'll be calling for his head also. Right now, I'll buy the excuse du jour and see how he does with RS back. I'll remind everyone that it'll be his tenth year. Any Bama FB coach with a similar record, if next year is a ten-peat, would be on the hot seat..

Actually, I'm not sure if we'll ever have a football coach that will be with us for 10 years anymore (maybe in any sport).....either we push them out, or they'll move on to other avenues in life.......not a reflection on Bama, just a reflection on the times.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Re: Perception of Gottfried's performance: A matter of perspective

OK, any TWO Bama HCs...

 

[bamadoc94]

I just want to get HYPE!!!

For over thirty years I have welcomed BBall season with the same excitement and anticipation as I do Football season. I know my posts recently have been overtly anti-CMG. Believe me when I say that there is no bigger fan of Mark the player and Mark the person than I am. I truly want/wanted to see him achieve the things he set out to do when he came to Bama, and in some respects he has. Had I been posting regularly over the many years that I have followed TideFans, many of you would know me to be very supportive, optimistic, and open minded (I used to own a restaurant and frankly didn't have the time to post).
I gave Mike Shula every benefit of the doubt right up to the point where it was just obvious a change had to be made. I have done the same for CMG through the years, but as Tide HSV has said ten years is a fairly decent body of work to base judgements on. That coupled with some disturbing trends, and what I thought was CMG's worst year on the bench last year (I realize last year was difficult, but I have always heard that you find out what a man is made of when times are toughest) has just led me to a place that I don't want to be. I can no longer "just get hype" about a game because I have a good idea before the game how things will play out. example:The other night v GTown I expected that we would give them a decent game, but just as I have seen so many times we would lose to the better coached team. I would be screaming at my TV as to why we have no inbounds play, why we took this or that stupid shot, why we haven't gone inside to Hendrix in x number of trips down, why did we leave so and so on the bench so long.....etc.
CNS has brought a confidence level, a level of trust if you will, that he is a championship caliber coach who knows what he is doing. I can now walk into BDS and just get fired up. And that is all I really want in BBall, to be able to walk into CC and have complete trust in our coach. I just want to get hype again!!!