Bama Game Thread: Elite 8 Postgame Bama v Duke

[Slowpoke Catracho]

I think people are over reacting to the size issue. We start 6”1, 6”4, 6”4 6”11, 6”11. That isn’t a small team. Florida is 6”2, 6”3, 6”4 6”9, 6”11. Sears and Holliday are shorter but as a whole the roster is good size. Honestly I still don’t like to hammer on a guy but I think the envision was for Stevenson to start in a game like this where other team has size this year instead of Philon to give us even more size. However his play just didn’t materialize this season to give him starts.

I don't think you are hammering on Stevenson as there could be some truth to that statement. There are also some other truths about the consistency of the team overall that could be stated especially on defensive end this year, but overall it was another good run for the Tide.

 

[CB72]

Lose to Duke by 20 after setting the NCAA tournament record for 3's.

Jekyll and Hyde.

 

[CrimsonEyeshade]

Lose to Duke by 20 after setting the NCAA tournament record for 3's.

Jekyll and Hyde.

One opponent did not play defense. The other did.

 

[BamaMoon]

Potentially the remaining guards on our roster (if they all come back) Philon, Holloway, Wrightsell and Mallet. While there’s talent it doesn’t really makes us a lot bigger

IIRC, Holloway is around 6 ft. Wrightsell is 6'3", Philon is 6'4" and Mallette is 6'5"

But we also listed Sears at 6'1" and if he's that tall, I'd eat my hat.

So the comments about size? Size matters. Dukes 3 was 6'7" and they didn't have a starter under 6'5" (again, IIRC). And although Cooper Flagg is 6'9" the time he blocked Mo's shot in the replay his head was near the rim. That serious length and then they had the 7'2" rim protector.

Not every team is built like this, but I'll tell you three teams which are: Duke, Florida and Auburn. And we had trouble with all of them because of their length. We have seen the enemy.

I'm not saying all the guards need to be 6'6", but when your two best (healthy) shooters aren't even 6' you can see why we struggled to even get off shots much less make them at a clip we'd need to in order to beat Duke.

 

[TideEngineer08]

It would have been extraordinary indeed if we had come even close to the 25 3 pointers again. That was the one negative thought I had coming off that BYU game.

Duke may well be the best team in the country today. I thought Florida was, and it may be they still are. I think that would be the best NC match up right now.

My question is, what do we do going forward? I feel like the Nate Oats system has hit a wall. To be absolutely clear, he has taken Alabama basketball beyond its historical setting. In that sense, he has blasted through walls that had been in place for many decades. But now the last one remains.

To be truly amongst the elite, what is needed? Was it just bad injury luck or is it system related? And by system related, I’m not saying anything is wrong with his system per se, but it is at a distinct disadvantage against elite programs with how the game is officiated. Refs accommodate the physical style. I think CNO is facing his first true crossroads.

These are just my Sunday afternoon thoughts. Overall, we are sitting where Alabama basketball has never been. Three straight sweet 16s. Two straight Elite 8s. A final 4. An overall #1 seed. SEC regular season and tournament banners. I have no complaints whatsoever.

 

[BamaMoon]

I don't think you are hammering on Stevenson as there could be some truth to that statement. There are also some other truths about the consistency of the team overall that could be stated especially on defensive end this year, but overall it was another good run for the Tide.

Of all the guys that could return, Stevenson concerns me most. It's nothing against him, but the only game he's ever really been a factor was last year when we beat his home town Tar Hills.

To say he's been disappointing is factual. I'm sure he's a good kid and he wanted to play for CNO when everybody thought he should go to NC. We'll see, but a guy with his measurables and potential should be one of our best players.

 

[BamaMoon]

It would have been extraordinary indeed if we had come even close to the 25 3 pointers again. That was the one negative thought I had coming off that BYU game.

Duke may well be the best team in the country today. I thought Florida was, and it may be they still are. I think that would be the best NC match up right now.

My question is, what do we do going forward? I feel like the Nate Oats system has hit a wall. To be absolutely clear, he has taken Alabama basketball beyond its historical setting. In that sense, he has blasted through walls that had been in place for many decades. But now the last one remains.

To be truly amongst the elite, what is needed? Was it just bad injury luck or is it system related? And by system related, I’m not saying anything is wrong with his system per se, but it is at a distinct disadvantage against elite programs with how the game is officiated. Refs accommodate the physical style. I think CNO is facing his first true crossroads.

These are just my Sunday afternoon thoughts. Overall, we are sitting where Alabama basketball has never been. Three straight sweet 16s. Two straight Elite 8s. A final 4. An overall #1 seed. SEC regular season and tournament banners. I have no complaints whatsoever.

I'm 100% sure CNO is asking those same questions. It's very possible we have lost to the eventual NCs two years in a row unless Houston wins it. And, that's ironic, because they play the kind of ball we typically struggle against.

 

[TideEngineer08]

I'm 100% sure CNO is asking those same questions. It's very possible we have lost to the eventual NCs two years in a row unless Houston wins it. And, that's ironic, because they play the kind of ball we typically struggle against.

It is my theory that Houston is not quite there talent-wise. But you are right, we ought to struggle against them.

 

[BamaMoon]

It is my theory that Houston is not quite there talent-wise. But you are right, we ought to struggle against them.

I forgot about MSU possibly winning it, but I'm afraid my brain has conceded that game to AU already.

 

[BamaMoon]

Unfortunately, the season always ends the same way.
Alabama is talented and looks unstoppable when 3s are falling. But...
A suspect defense
An opponent with a rim protector
3s aren't falling
No other scoring option since post up and mid-range is non-existent (and discouraged)
The other team kills you with the mid-range part of the floor (Duke only made 6 3s)

I love math but I will never believe ignoring the mid-range part of the offense is the answer

I'll bite.

Although I think you'd agree 3 is more than 2, which is basic math, it's more about statistical probabilities. Shooting percentages on mid-range jumpers aren't any better than from distance.

But that comes back to math: 3 > 2

 

[cthorne22]

I'll bite.

Although I think you'd agree 3 is more than 2, which is basic math, it's more about statistical probabilities. Shooting percentages on mid-range jumpers aren't any better than from distance.

But that comes back to math: 3 > 2

Seriously,
No difference in made pct between 21ft and 12ft shots. That's not part of the philosophy. The reasoning goes if you can shoot 40% from 3 you have to shoot 60% from inside the arc.
But, what if you only shoot 28%? Now, 42% is the mark. Much more likely 15 ft and in.

No difference from ranges? I can literally prove that wrong in my driveway.

More simple math: 2 > 0

The best evidence is we are knocked out every year by a team that beats us with 2s not 3s

I just think a nice balance is best.

 

[Bpilktree]

It is my theory that Houston is not quite there talent-wise. But you are right, we ought to struggle against them.

Houston is physical but they are not real tall. Their back line is 6”8, 6”8. Cryer is just 6”1.

 

[Bpilktree]

IIRC, Holloway is around 6 ft. Wrightsell is 6'3", Philon is 6'4" and Mallette is 6'5"

But we also listed Sears at 6'1" and if he's that tall, I'd eat my hat.

So the comments about size? Size matters. Dukes 3 was 6'7" and they didn't have a starter under 6'5" (again, IIRC). And although Cooper Flagg is 6'9" the time he blocked Mo's shot in the replay his head was near the rim. That serious length and then they had the 7'2" rim protector.

Not every team is built like this, but I'll tell you three teams which are: Duke, Florida and Auburn. And we had trouble with all of them because of their length. We have seen the enemy.

I'm not saying all the guards need to be 6'6", but when your two best (healthy) shooters aren't even 6' you can see why we struggled to even get off shots much less make them at a clip we'd need to in order to beat Duke.

Florida is 6”1, 6”3, 6”4, 6”8 and 6”11. We are actually slightly bigger than them. Duke is at a completely different level size wise then anyone in the country. Houston is 6”1, 6”3, 6”4, 6”8, 6”8. We are as big as both of those teams.

 

[JDCrimson]

If you watch the replay from last night, you will see that there were several instances where Cliff didn't leave his feet to get a rebound and I don't understand why? We just got outplayed down low and it allowed Duke to guard the perimeter much more easily because they knew what happened behind them was not a concern.

 

[BamaMoon]

Seriously,
No difference in made pct between 21ft and 12ft shots. That's not part of the philosophy. The reasoning goes if you can shoot 40% from 3 you have to shoot 60% from inside the arc.
But, what if you only shoot 28%? Now, 42% is the mark. Much more likely 15 ft and in.

No difference from ranges? I can literally prove that wrong in my driveway.

More simple math: 2 > 0

The best evidence is we are knocked out every year by a team that beats us with 2s not 3s

I just think a nice balance is best.

This article explains what I tried to explain poorly. I tried to simplify it to 3 > 2.

I overexaggerated the percentages from distance. Sorry about that. But there's the shots at the rim analytics and from distance that creates the gap in between.

More important point to your original post though is his system works better than anything we've ever had at Bama. No it hasn't gotten us to the NC mountaintop yet, but his system is getting us closer and closer and at some point when the roster meshes with the system, it'll happen.

Nate Oats embraced analytics and got Alabama to the Final Four. When will the rest of college basketball catch up?

Nate Oats has worked to optimize Alabama's offensive approach, and it paid off this year with a trip to the Final Four.

www.saturdaydownsouth.com

 

[AlexanderFan]

If you watch the replay from last night, you will see that there were several instances where Cliff didn't leave his feet to get a rebound and I don't understand why? We just got outplayed down low and it allowed Duke to guard the perimeter much more easily because they knew what happened behind them was not a concern.

He had a bad game for sure. Missed dunks and a general feeling of him missing in action.

 

[BamaMoon]

CNO said in his post game presser that Cliff hurt his knee.

 

[BAMARICH]

I can't be disappointed with 28 wins and an elite 8 appearance. Roll Tide!

To each his own… Oats expressed disappointment in goals that weren’t reached in his post-game presser. Again, these weren’t goals fans set for the program… but it’s what Oats himself set prior to the season. It was clear that anything less than a Final Four this year wouldn’t be acceptable. I’m thrilled that’s where we’re at as a program - looking forward to what Oats does next to adjust.

 

[BAMARICH]

You guys act like 6’6” guards with above average speed grow on trees.

Look, anyone but duke and our guards are at the free throw line all night. duke is duke, their guard bowled over Sears and got a jump ball out of it. Holding, pulling, shoving all game long. duke had the recipe: our guys don’t respond to contact well.

This was a year-long thing… Auburn, Florida, Duke, etc. all ate our lunch. We’ll win one every once in a while (I.e. Auburn), but we’re going to get beat far more often than not. Those three teams have made adjustments and if we’re going to keep up, we’ll have to follow suite or this will be a rinse and repeat every season.

 

[BAMARICH]

Florida is 6”1, 6”3, 6”4, 6”8 and 6”11. We are actually slightly bigger than them. Duke is at a completely different level size wise then anyone in the country. Houston is 6”1, 6”3, 6”4, 6”8, 6”8. We are as big as both of those teams.

With Florida, their weak link is their 6’1” guard. A lot has to do with length and reach. If you noticed last night, several times when Bama was in transition, Duke’s 7’2” guy was on Sears. I think that was by design because unless he was pulling up from 30 feet, he wasn’t going to shoot over his length. And how many times did their 6’7 guard roast a smaller guy? IF you’re small, you better be able to be very physical.