Elon Musk: Hero or Villian?

[Huckleberry]

He's become one of the most powerful and important people in American politics, but not everyone agrees with his methods or opinions. He deserves his own political thread.

 

[Huckleberry]

 

[crimsonaudio]

I know many have made up their minds, but I think it's too early to tell. Some of his moves seem stupid, but later prove to be genius, and vice versa.

The reason I'm willing to give him a bit more leeway is that he's on record saying he doesn't care about money (his lifestyle seems to correlate with this claim), but that he wants to achieve goals. This is counter-intuitive to a vast majority of people, especially in the US, so his methods don't always fit the molds we're accustomed to seeing.

I don't think he's a nazi, but I don't know that he's not a villain consumed with wealth/power.

So I'm back to I think it's too early to tell.

 

[Bamaro]

He's an opportunist. In it for himself.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

I think the thing that most interests me about the guy is the fact that his "give-a-damn-O-meter" is completely broken. Remember, this is a guy who was a hero to environmentalists, Democrats and other assorted folks when he was voting Dem and making cars that were going to "save the environment."

At some point, he had taken an active role is protecting free speech and upon that idea decided to buy a social media platform that was unbalanced and being far too influenced by the U.S. government. Were mistakes made? Sure. However, the clapback from leftists who saw their favorite echo-chamber changing was loud and clear. His willingness to expose election interference within the platform really ramped up the outrage by a factor of ten. When people ask how he could possibly ally himself with a guy like Trump, I like to point this out as probably the start of all this because a lot of people turned on him with a viciousness he has probably never seen before.

I'm glad he bought Twitter and so far, I'm not upset at the work of DOGE. It's way too early to declare success or failure here, but I do think it's noteworthy that he is (or appears to be) really trying keep us from being suffocated by our own insane spending. Democrats are worried that Musk is throwing the baby out with the bath-water when it comes to organizations like USAID and again, time will tell if that is true. I'm just glad SOMEBODY is trying, whether it's Musk, Trump or the ghost of Lee Harvey Oswald. Something had to be done.

 

[Its On A Slab]

I think he's done a lot of good things for the country. Among them, getting our manned spaceflight program back into existence.

However, I think it's pretty obvious that he's let fame and publicity go to his head. Like many really intelligent people, he has a tendency to think he is infallible, that his opinions are paramount and beyond question. Throw in what seems to be his madness coming out. Some say it's the ketamine, some say meth. He is a known user of the herb.

He has all the elements of somebody who is burning himself out, and falling into some addiction-laden downfall.

I believe he will drive Twitter into the ground. Fact-checking is NOT censorship, yet his "free speech" fetish goes so far as to make everything true - lies, half-truths, misdirects, misinformation.

I don't think he's a Nazi. I just think he is one to provoke/trigger people. In other words, an anal sphincter(I can't call him what he really is! ).

Just my opinion.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

I honestly doubt the richest guy in the world being this close to power - having the money to get rid of problems that stand in his way (like, you know, financing candidates who will do his bidding in primaries to get rid of those who do not), the ability to buy off, blackmail, or force to the sidelines any opposition - I just don't think that's a good thing.

Btw, wanna see Elon Musk become the most popular rich guy with Democrats? Just let him come up with some way to get Trump out of office and the very same people who loathe him now will be ecstatic at what he does. You know, "hey, I have a tape here of you with a 14-year old on Epstein Island that's going out at 4 today."

What sickens me is I don't know that even THAT would sway the cult, who would no doubt say it was created by AI or "fake news."


I'll reserve full judgment for the future, but I seriously doubt Musk is in this for humanitarian or nation preserving reasons.

 

[mrusso]

Still too early to tell. I can see DOGE going well enough for Musk to make a run for office. Then, in four years the roles could be reversed, thereby paving the way for the orange man to remain in office, just in a slightly different capacity. I can also see it failing miserably. We are in the very early phases.

 

[mdb-tpet]

If he were taking a list of problems, making clear proposals, debating these proposals, explaining why his numbers are correct/actually correcting his numbers, THEN taking appropriate action, I would think he's doing a good job. But, instead, he's a one man decision team acting like he's a slash and burn CEO for the country. No one person can understand our bureaucracy and certainly not understand it at the same time he's hacking it to pieces with an uninformed team of hackers.

I agree we need a top down look at our government. But not like this, not this fast, not this without public debate, not without public buy in, and certainly not from a guy that stands to gain so much power and money from his actions.

But sadly, too many people have lost faith (had their faith taken away by the constant anti-government drumbeat in media) in our government, while at the same time, too many uber-wealthy corporations and people have control of the groups in the government that are supposed to be monitoring their businesses. So, to fix this, we elected the uber wealthy folks in control of our government to clear out the workers that were the last line of defense against said businesses. There simply will be no way to slow or stop major pollution, corruption, oligopolies, monopsonies, for a long time if this keeps up, which is what the Trump team wants from what I can tell. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[mrusso]

If he were taking a list of problems, making clear proposals, debating these proposals, explaining why his numbers are correct/actually correcting his numbers, THEN taking appropriate action, I would think he's doing a good job. But, instead, he's a one man decision team acting like he's a slash and burn CEO for the country. No one person can understand our bureaucracy and certainly not understand it at the same time he's hacking it to pieces with an uninformed team of hackers.

I agree we need a top down look at our government. But not like this, not this fast, not this without public debate, not without public buy in, and certainly not from a guy that stands to gain so much power and money from his actions.

But sadly, too many people have lost faith (had their faith taken away by the constant anti-government drumbeat in media) in our government, while at the same time, too many uber-wealthy corporations and people have control of the groups in the government that are supposed to be monitoring their businesses. So, to fix this, we elected the uber wealthy folks in control of our government to clear out the workers that were the last line of defense against said businesses. There simply will be no way to slow or stop major pollution, corruption, oligopolies, monopsonies, for a long time if this keeps up, which is what the Trump team wants from what I can tell. I hope I'm wrong.

This is all we need at this point...a detailed top down look at government. This needed to be exposed. The actions need careful thought with regards to outcomes, not some shoot at the hip decision because that's how you run your business.

 

[75thru79]

If he were taking a list of problems, making clear proposals, debating these proposals, explaining why his numbers are correct/actually correcting his numbers, THEN taking appropriate action, I would think he's doing a good job. But, instead, he's a one man decision team acting like he's a slash and burn CEO for the country. No one person can understand our bureaucracy and certainly not understand it at the same time he's hacking it to pieces with an uninformed team of hackers.

If this were Corporate America here then everything you listed would be appropriate and probably how it would go. However, we are talking about a behemoth larger than almost any other organization in the world with literally hundreds of years of inertia. If they had tried to run the downsizing operation like a corporate project it would be an epic failure, mostly because IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN. It's almost like a war, US Gov't versus Taxpayers. The last thing you want to do in war is announce to your enemy all the moves you are going to make before you make them. The inertia on the US Gov't side would have been able to squelch this, just like every other attempt made to "root out fraud and waste". If I had a nickel for each time I've heard that phrase I might be able to afford a dozen eggs.

 

[dayhiker]

The answer may be yes.

I ready this maybe 5 years ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. I don't think he's in this for himself based on what I previously learned about him: https://www.amazon.com/Elon-Musk-Sp...lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

 

[crimsonaudio]

This is all we need at this point...a detailed top down look at government. This needed to be exposed. The actions need careful thought with regards to outcomes, not some shoot at the hip decision because that's how you run your business.

I would argue that this method simply wouldn't work - talk it to death, delay, etc are the methods the bureaucracy has used for uncontrolled growth for decades.

 

[mrusso]

I would argue that this method simply wouldn't work - talk it to death, delay, etc are the methods the bureaucracy has used for uncontrolled growth for decades.

You're not wrong.

 

[jthomas666]

This is not at ALL fishy...

Elon Musk says upgrade of FAA’s air traffic control system is failing and SpaceX needs to take over Verizon’s contract | CNN Business

Elon Musk said Thursday that Verizon’s efforts to provide a critically needed upgrade to the FAA’s air traffic control system is failing. And he said that it is important that Starlink, a unit of his SpaceX satellite and rocket company, take over.

amp.cnn.com

 

[arthurdawg]

I think the easiest way to understand Elon Musk is to note that he almost certainly has narcissistic personality disorder. He is amoral and no empathy for others. I work with several people who have NPD and it is interesting to watch the same traits displayed over and over. He basically views himself as the center of the universe and others can be hurt and displaced without any concern as long as he gets what he wants. Mind you... It is amorality, he isn't evil per se, he just doesn't care.

He also displays the tendency of some extremely intelligent people to think that he can read a quick briefing and be more capable than someone with years of experience and intuition in a position, even when he doesn't really know what he is doing. He seems to be treating the Fed the same as Twitter when it comes to hacking and slashing and they are not the same. Firing the entire corps of tech workers who keep our nukes working is not smart. Period. He doesn't seem to ever consider the downstream consequences of his actions, expecting others to clean up the mess. He will take everything he does as a win, and everything that ends badly is because the little people didn't clean up properly after him.

Ultimately, NPD and the psychopathic traits they display can be very useful in military leaders, CEOs, and other positions of power* to a degree. But I believe we have gone overboard currently. A good read on this is the book "The Wisdom of Pyschopaths" by Kevin Dutton. I strongly recommend it for the current situation and to help you deal with these people in your own lives.

* Top college football coaches have these traits too... psychopathy itself isn't to imply one is an axe murderer, which is sociopathy, but rather the traits that let one do things without worry or concern. See also: Trump, Donald.

 

[Huckleberry]

 

[AWRTR]

I think the easiest way to understand Elon Musk is to note that he almost certainly has narcissistic personality disorder. He is amoral and no empathy for others. I work with several people who have NPD and it is interesting to watch the same traits displayed over and over. He basically views himself as the center of the universe and others can be hurt and displaced without any concern as long as he gets what he wants. Mind you... It is amorality, he isn't evil per se, he just doesn't care.

He also displays the tendency of some extremely intelligent people to think that he can read a quick briefing and be more capable than someone with years of experience and intuition in a position, even when he doesn't really know what he is doing. He seems to be treating the Fed the same as Twitter when it comes to hacking and slashing and they are not the same. Firing the entire corps of tech workers who keep our nukes working is not smart. Period. He doesn't seem to ever consider the downstream consequences of his actions, expecting others to clean up the mess. He will take everything he does as a win, and everything that ends badly is because the little people didn't clean up properly after him.

Ultimately, NPD and the psychopathic traits they display can be very useful in military leaders, CEOs, and other positions of power* to a degree. But I believe we have gone overboard currently. A good read on this is the book "The Wisdom of Pyschopaths" by Kevin Dutton. I strongly recommend it for the current situation and to help you deal with these people in your own lives.

* Top college football coaches have these traits too... psychopathy itself isn't to imply one is an axe murderer, which is sociopathy, but rather the traits that let one do things without worry or concern. See also: Trump, Donald.

You work with several people with NPD? I don't know that I buy that. You may work with some selfish jerks. How are you diagnosing these people? Maybe you have the background to do so. I don't know. What most people deal with are selfish people that get labeled with something like NPD. That's really not what they have. I've dealt with one person I think fits the profile, but I don't know for sure. I'm not capable of diagnosing that just like I'm not capable of diagnosing breast cancer.

It's super convenient to just label anyone you don't like as having NPD or as a psychopath. Musk apparently fits this profile for you. You do you, but those are some pretty presumptuous claims without any real contact with the guy to diagnose him even is you have the real training to do so.

 

[arthurdawg]

You work with several people with NPD? I don't know that I buy that. You may work with some selfish jerks. How are you diagnosing these people? Maybe you have the background to do so. I don't know. What most people deal with are selfish people that get labeled with something like NPD. That's really not what they have. I've dealt with one person I think fits the profile, but I don't know for sure. I'm not capable of diagnosing that just like I'm not capable of diagnosing breast cancer.

It's super convenient to just label anyone you don't like as having NPD or as a psychopath. Musk apparently fits this profile for you. You do you, but those are some pretty presumptuous claims without any real contact with the guy to diagnose him even is you have the real training to do so.

I think Elon fits the profile quite well. You are correct that I am speculating from afar. Mind you, I’m not meaning this a definitive. But his profile, abandoning his children, his lack of empathy, are all suggestive of meeting at least some of the diagnostic criteria. It’s also very difficult to diagnose these disorders even if you are seeing a person directly as their psychiatrist. And just like straight forward medical diagnoses these patients can have quiescent periods.

As to qualifications, I am a physician with experience in the field previously and I work with other physicians who often display psychopathic traits, and yes, a couple of them are bonafide NPD players. I became interested initially due to a family member who has a personality disorder and has wrought havoc at times. I do not consider myself an expert in this area though, and would defer therapy to a psychiatrist in the real world.

I do suggest the book I mentioned above again - having psychopathic traits doesn’t mean you can’t be a nice pleasant person much of the time. But it does mean you can fly an F-18 into battle or be the CEO of a large company and make those tough decisions without losing sleep.

 

[Bazza]

I agree....great song!