FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

jthomas666

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Here's the scenario:

Woman pulls into a handicapped space so her boyfriend can run into the store.

While he's in the store, someone comes up and starts yelling at her.

Boyfriend comes out, shoves the guy down.

Guy pulls out a gun (he had a concealed carry permit) and shoots boyfriend in the chest, killing him.

The police refused to arrest, citing the stand your ground law.

btw, there's video at the link.
 

Bamabuzzard

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Here's the scenario:

Woman pulls into a handicapped space so her boyfriend can run into the store.

While he's in the store, someone comes up and starts yelling at her.

Boyfriend comes out, shoves the guy down.

Guy pulls out a gun (he had a concealed carry permit) and shoots boyfriend in the chest, killing him.

The police refused to arrest, citing the stand your ground law.

btw, there's video at the link.
I don't even have to watch the video because of this here. The guy instigated and escalated the situation. He shouldn't fall under the protection of "Stand your ground" law.
 

NationalTitles17

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There has to be something that makes sense somewhere between "duty to retreat (until you are like a cornered mouse)" and "stand (or expand in this case) your ground".

Who was the real aggressor here? Seems to me it was the shooter.
 

92tide

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There has to be something that makes sense somewhere between "duty to retreat (until you are like a cornered mouse)" and "stand (or expand in this case) your ground".

Who was the real aggressor here? Seems to me it was the shooter.
that poor little 5 year old kid who had to watch his dad get shot and bleed out is going to have a hard time living with this.
 

Bazza

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Thoughts.......

If that's my girlfriend with my kids in the car and she's parked illegally....and some guy comes up and tells her she's parked illegally.....I'd want her to immediately move the car. You never know what kind of kook is carrying. It's one thing if she's by herself but when children are involved...their safety has to come first.

Not everyone puts their children first though - I realize that. You cannot control what other people do - but sometimes you can diffuse a situation. Neither of these two parents appeared to do that here.

The guy in the blue tee shirt may have been coming over to join in on the beating, until he sees the gun come out. Then he changes his mind very quickly.

I'm not absolving the shooter of anything - he should have just winged the guy in the leg or arm, etc.

In the video....does it look like the shooter hit his head on the curb or pavement? That may have had an effect on his thinking too.

Wish we had a transcript or audio of what all was said....
 

Bamabuzzard

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Thoughts.......

If that's my girlfriend with my kids in the car and she's parked illegally....and some guy comes up and tells her she's parked illegally.....I'd want her to immediately move the car. You never know what kind of kook is carrying. It's one thing if she's by herself but when children are involved...their safety has to come first.

Not everyone puts their children first though - I realize that. You cannot control what other people do - but sometimes you can diffuse a situation. Neither of these two parents appeared to do that here.

The guy in the blue tee shirt may have been coming over to join in on the beating, until he sees the gun come out. Then he changes his mind very quickly.

I'm not absolving the shooter of anything - he should have just winged the guy in the leg or arm, etc.

In the video....does it look like the shooter hit his head on the curb or pavement? That may have had an effect on his thinking too.

Wish we had a transcript or audio of what all was said....
It is not his job to "police" parking laws or the violation of them. His responsibility should have been to keep walking either to his car or into the store. If he wanted to "help", he could have gone to the customer service desk of the store and reported that there were people parking in Handicapped zones without a permit. That's about it. At that point he should have went about his day.
 

Bazza

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that poor little 5 year old kid who had to watch his dad get shot and bleed out is going to have a hard time living with this.
Poor decision making by his father - just like his mother. Both had a responsibility to their children to diffuse the situation.

She could have moved her car (or not parked illegally in the first place ideally) and he could have been more civil when he approached the shooter.

Not absolving the shooter of anything but when you are a parent and you have your children with you - you have to put their safety and comfort first.
 

Bazza

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It is not his job to "police" parking laws or the violation of them. His responsibility should have been to keep walking either to his car or into the store. If he wanted to "help", he could have gone to the customer service desk of the store and reported that there were people parking in Handicapped zones without a permit. That's about it. At that point he should have went about his day.
I totally agree.

Obviously he was one of those people who couldn't help himself.

When those kind come near me - I try to get away as quickly as possible.
 

UAH

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I don't even have to watch the video because of this here. The guy instigated and escalated the situation. He shouldn't fall under the protection of "Stand your ground" law.
Effectively in the Injustice System an individual is effectively sentenced to death and immediately executed for a parking violation by an individual who had absolutely no authority in the matter.

What should have been a momentary disagreement turns to murder by any definition but for a statute by a group of pin headed legislators who have provided a group of kooks the right to instigate an incident an end it with a firearm.
 

NationalTitles17

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Thoughts.......

If that's my girlfriend with my kids in the car and she's parked illegally....and some guy comes up and tells her she's parked illegally.....I'd want her to immediately move the car. You never know what kind of kook is carrying. It's one thing if she's by herself but when children are involved...their safety has to come first.

Not everyone puts their children first though - I realize that. You cannot control what other people do - but sometimes you can diffuse a situation. Neither of these two parents appeared to do that here.

The guy in the blue tee shirt may have been coming over to join in on the beating, until he sees the gun come out. Then he changes his mind very quickly.

I'm not absolving the shooter of anything - he should have just winged the guy in the leg or arm, etc.

In the video....does it look like the shooter hit his head on the curb or pavement? That may have had an effect on his thinking too.

Wish we had a transcript or audio of what all was said....
Here's reality:

A black couple with a child parks in a handicap space. At this point we aren't sure if there is a handicap placard, but most are assuming there is not. A white man gets out of his vehicle and verbally engages the black woman, who at this point is alone. The black man comes and shoves the white man down. We do not know what was being said during this time or what threat the black man or woman felt from the man who left his vehicle to verbally engage. The white man then shoots the black man. White man claims "stand your ground". Black man dies and has no opportunity at all now. White man will avoid trial by claiming "stand your ground" unless DA decides otherwise. I do not know what would allow the DA to bring charges anyway, if anything.

Under what circumstances would the DA be able to bring charges?

How would you feel if the skin colors were reversed but everything else remained the same? Skin colors reversed but the man with the woman defending her (by shooting the original shooter)? Back to original skin colors and black man shoots white man?

Doesn't it seem that the deadly force was far out of proportion?

Is stand your ground leading to a wild west mentality?

Surely this law is one step too far in reaction to duty to retreat.

There are problems here regarding race.

The black man may have felt a threat and used the force he had to stop the perceived threat prior to being shot, but the white man is still not charged for being the aggressor.
 
Last edited:

NationalTitles17

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Poor decision making by his father - just like his mother. Both had a responsibility to their children to diffuse the situation.

She could have moved her car (or not parked illegally in the first place ideally) and he could have been more civil when he approached the shooter.

Not absolving the shooter of anything but when you are a parent and you have your children with you - you have to put their safety and comfort first.
What of the poor decision making by the man who got out of his vehicle to verbally engage a woman who is alone?

You aren't looking at the big picture.
 

Bamabuzzard

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Here's reality:

A black couple with a child parks in a handicap space. At this point we aren't sure if there is a handicap placard, but most are assuming there is not. A white man gets out of his vehicle and verbally engages the black woman, who at this point is alone. The black man comes and shoves the white man down. We do not know what was being said during this time or what threat the black man or woman felt from the man who left his vehicle to verbally engage. The white man then shoots the black man. White man claims "stand your ground". Black man dies and has no opportunity at all now. White man will avoid trial by claiming "stand your ground" unless DA decides otherwise. I do not know what would allow the DA to bring charges anyway, if anything.

Under what circumstances would the DA be able to bring charges?

How would you feel if the skin colors were reversed but everything else remained the same? Skin colors reversed but the man with the woman defending her?

Doesn't it seem that the deadly force was far out of proportion?

Is stand your ground leading to a wild west mentality?

Surely this law is one step too far in reaction to duty to retreat.

There are problems here regarding race.

The black man may have felt a threat and used the force he had to stop the perceived threat prior to being shot, but the white man is still not charged for being the aggressor.
I didn't even watch the video or know the races of the parties involved and came to the conclusion the guy claiming SYG shouldn't be able to and should be prosecuted. I'm not sure what race has to do with this. Is there something in the link that leads you to believe the reason the shooter was granted SYG status was because he was white and the guy he shot was black? I'm trying to find the reason to bring race into this particular discussion.
 

RollTide_HTTR

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You can't just shoot people. Dude should go to jail just like the guy who shot the thief who stole a bag of chips or whatever.
 

rolltide_21

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What kind of a man engages a woman with a small child aggressively regardless of other factors? Good grief. How was she a threat to him in any way? If I’m in that situation I react the same manner as the black man. Maybe not to that level of physical aggression and any boyfriend/husband worth their salt should too.


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