Gottfried = Tuberville

[LegionField]

But unlike Hobbs, he hasn't run the program into the absolute ground, in fact he built it up from the ground.

So if you can argue that Stanford was over rated, why can't I argue that Kent State was under rated? CMG is not going anywhere so I look forward to more of your negative posts and for the record I supported Shula's firing.

Good point and a lot of people did not support his firing. I just pulled out Hobbs to show some that Gottfried is not the greatest coach ever. My original comparison to Shula is accurate. Shula also built the program in the "right" way. He just couldn't take it any higher. That was my point. Gottfried and Shula are both classy, Shula just couldn't get the job done. It remains to be seen with Gottfried. It is amazing the patience we have in Basketball.....9 years.

P.S. It does worry me that with the talent we have on this team, we should have won the West going away.

Great debate!!!

 

[Uptown Tider]

I think both of you have made your point. CMG has had some great wins yet produced some head-scratching moments. My biggest complaint about his teams is that if you hit them in the mouth, they don't hit back. I wish they were tougher, more aggressive, and more consistant on the defensive end.

Comparisons to Tubberville are irrelevant in my opinion. Comparisons to Cliff Ellis might be more applicable.

Good post, Tidetwin.

CMG has had his successes and he's had his failures, none bigger than his inability to put his mark, as you will, on his teams. If you're lucky, watch some footage from C.M. Newton's era -- with Anthony Murray or Raymond Odoms or T.R. Dunn locking down on opponents. Watch what Murray and Dunn and Mule and Leon did to Phil Ford's All-American-laden Tar Heel team in 1976, and how they took Bob Knight's best Indiana team ever to the mat before losing late.

Wimp? Even Ennis Whatley played defense line to line. Look what the crazy man's unknown players did to Arizona and Loyola -- how defense and effort can fill a lot of gap. For more than 20 years, Alabama teams played as hard as any team in the country.

Can we say that now?

Every one of Mark's teams had at least one starter who hasn't given a rip about defensive effort. As a result, once things start to go wrong, it's very hard to get them back on track.

So maybe I'm wrong about our coach. Maybe he's left his mark after all.

 

[BamaMan34]

Good point and a lot of people did not support his firing. I just pulled out Hobbs to show some that Gottfried is not the greatest coach ever. My original comparison to Shula is accurate. Shula also built the program in the "right" way. He just couldn't take it any higher. That was my point. Gottfried and Shula are both classy, Shula just couldn't get the job done. It remains to be seen with Gottfried. It is amazing the patience we have in Basketball.....9 years.

P.S. It does worry me that with the talent we have on this team, we should have won the West going away.

Great debate!!!

I don't believe the comparison to Shula is accurate, CMG has won a conference title and taken a team to the Elite 8 (i.e. got the job done). You know all about the consecutive tourney appearances and the fact he graduates players so I will not engage in argument that compares him to Shula.

Please don't misunderstand my support of CMG as a belief that he is the greatest coach ever. In fact if you look at some of my previous posts, I concede that he is not the best bench coach ever but I believe you have to look at the whole picture.

It's interesting to me that so many on this forum want to hold up Wimp Sanderson as the gold standard at the Capstone. While I like Wimp, his 3 straight tourney championships came with Kentucky at their absolute lowest. Were you guys in town when we honored Robert Horry? How many other guys did we put in the NBA during this time? A bunch and yet nobody on here would dare suggest maybe we underachieved with some of those teams that didn't pass the Sweet 16. Have we had some flame outs in the big dance? Sure, but who hasn't? How many times has Florida been upset in the first and second round? I can think of more than one yet they win the championship last year and now CBD is the greatest coach ever. My point is do you really think he changed that much in his coaching philosophy? Let me answer that, no, he kept the faith in his system, landed some more huge recruits and got hot at the right time, which is what college basketball is all about.

 

[LegionField]

Great post. I see your point.

 

[foley_boy]

Stanford was over-rated that year. Marquette was not that much better than us if at all. You can have Florida..... However, as with all bad coaching, his talent won in spite of him.

It pains me to read you saying that almost every time we've won a big game the team was over rated while almost every time we've lost a big game it was because we underachieved. I mean don't you see the slantedness of this perspective?

 

[LegionField]

I gave you Florida...............:tongue:

 

[WPtider]

Stanford was over-rated that year. Marquette was not that much better than us if at all. You can have Florida..... However, as with all bad coaching, his talent won in spite of him.

Stanford lost I think twice the year we beat them in the NCAA. Do you seriously believe we had more talent than Florida last year (w/o Davis). Seriously? Marquette was seeded higher so that seems like an upset (I could argue that Kent State an UWM were severly underrated but that would be as unrealistic as your post above)

 

[foley_boy]

Stanford lost I think twice the year we beat them in the NCAA. Do you seriously believe we had more talent than Florida last year (w/o Davis). Seriously? Marquette was seeded higher so that seems like an upset (I could argue that Kent State an UWM were severly underrated but that would be as unrealistic as your post above)

Legion Field...
UWM also beat a very talented Boston College team that year...Kent State also went to the Elite 8 that year after beating Pittsburgh. But we don't talk about that...we don't talk about how these horrible teams that bounced us from the tournament also beat another good team before they went out. It wasn't like Gottfried brought our team in with their heads up their butts and they lost to some team that wasn't capable of beating any other talented team in basketball UWM upset a team one seed higher than us while Kent State upset a team one seed lower than us...after defeating us. But for some reason these TWO...yes TWO lone upsets we have faced in the NCAA tournaments, (because every other time we've lost in the tournament under Gottfried it has been to a higher seed), seem to be the subject of SO MUCH criticism for our team and coach. If you can't see that the Marquette wins and Stanford wins...AS WELL AS Syracuse in the round after we beat Stanford...were not huge upsets where a combination of GOOD coaching and players being hot at the right time propelled us to victory...then surely you can see that UWM and Kent State were not merely chump teams that got handed another round of play by an unprepared Alabama team.


see...I can spin too...

 

[mjstide]

Except for the fluke Elite 8 run, he got as far as Gottfried, as many times.

An Elite 8 run cannot be a fluke that is what is great about college basketball. You dont have to win one game to win the championship, you have to win 6. To get to the elite eight you have to win 3 games against good teams. I dont mind someone with a differing opinion what i cannot stand is that no matter what you are always negative. If we win it is because of the other teams mistakes, if we lose it cant ever be that the other teams was just better.... You seem like you would be angry if we made it to the final four and had lost to george mason last year.....

 

[LegionField]

I just hate seeing a team with all of the talent in the world underachieve.