Here it Comes New Push for an 8 Team College Football Playoff

Tug Tide

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I guess my main question is who will ultimately decide this? Is the conference commissioners, the school presidents, AD’s?
If it’s the commissioners, acting on behalf of their schools, what happens if the SEC (or any conference) says “Sorry fellas we like it just fine the way it is.”?
 

USCBAMA

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I guess my main question is who will ultimately decide this? Is the conference commissioners, the school presidents, AD’s?
If it’s the commissioners, acting on behalf of their schools, what happens if the SEC (or any conference) says “Sorry fellas we like it just fine the way it is.”?
The bigger issue here is not the amount of money (an expanded playoff almost assuredly brings in more $$), but who controls that money. The NCAA controls the basketball tourney and thus they get to decide how to distribute the $$, and they keep a chunk of it. The FBS conferences & Notre Dame currently control football cfp & bowl $$ and their biggest fear is the NCAA taking over the football playoff and running it like the basketball tourney. This is a huge part of what has kept the antiquated bowl system afloat for so long, not the money but the control of the money. This is a big reason why we have seen the cfp creep into existence over 20+ years instead of quickly implemented. The conferences like more $$ so ultimately I suspect they will expand cfp, but each step forward is done slowly and carefully so as to keep the NCAA's grubby hands out of the football pot of $$.

So to answer your question, the FBS conferences and Notre Dame will ultimately decide this. The NCAA is largely just a bystander, and the ultimate goal of the FBS conferences and Notre Dame is to make sure is stays that way - hence a slow creep toward an expanded playoff (and no, expansion is not a given but it certainly is looking like a strong possibility).

Here is a good Forbes article on this subject.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bdavid...s-an-expose-of-selfish-interest/#77995aa64e1a
 
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NationalTitles18

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Good article.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...om&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

[FONT=&quot]This isn't rocket science. Watch the games and make an informed decision, not one that protects your product and reinforces the tired ways of the past.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]If the committee makeup changes, you've got a pretty strong chance of not ending up with games where one team loses by 27 and another team spends the entire game trying to convert fourth downs to not get blown out, then talks about not giving up.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"That's what our team is built around—fighting to the end," said OU wideout Marquise Brown.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]So we've got that going for us.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The sport deserves better than this, and the simple fix isn't as drastic as adding more teams or implementing more metrics.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It's just the best four teams, no matter the record, no matter the conference.[/FONT]
Although I'm happy when Alabama gets to beat a blue blood soundly to advance, I mostly agree. I was always in favor of using a BCS type formula to determine the participants because the pull of politics is just too strong for a committee of people whose heads are filled with political considerations no matter how much they deny reality.

If you want the best teams then do what's right to get them in the playoff and make the entire process completely transparent. At least anyone could take the BCS formula and run the numbers to confirm the results, like them or not.

What we have now is the (at one time in history smoke-filled) back room with no transparency to speak of except what the committee wants you to see.

We have pretzel logic instead of reasoning.

We have the four politically desirable teams instead of the four best.

We have excuses to expand the field instead of a desire to get the right teams in the first place.

This current arrangement is not good for college football and expanding the field is not the answer.
 

CrimsonNagus

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Except the simulated BCS rankings actually match the CFP's top 4.


Anyway, this is not the year to argue for expansion after what we all just witnessed in the semifinals. If anything, this year makes an argument to go back to just a 1 vs 2 game since the two teams ranked preseason 1 and 2 are in the championship game. Why does anyone want to expand just to get more blowout wins?

The UCF argument is over. Yes, their QB was hurt but, they couldn't beat LSU's second string defense.
 

Islander

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Except the simulated BCS rankings actually match the CFP's top 4.


Anyway, this is not the year to argue for expansion after what we all just witnessed in the semifinals. If anything, this year makes an argument to go back to just a 1 vs 2 game since the two teams ranked preseason 1 and 2 are in the championship game. Why does anyone want to expand just to get more blowout wins?

The UCF argument is over. Yes, their QB was hurt but, they couldn't beat LSU's second string defense.
Not even 2nd string-they had a wideout playing corner!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

USCBAMA

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Except the simulated BCS rankings actually match the CFP's top 4.


Anyway, this is not the year to argue for expansion after what we all just witnessed in the semifinals. If anything, this year makes an argument to go back to just a 1 vs 2 game since the two teams ranked preseason 1 and 2 are in the championship game. Why does anyone want to expand just to get more blowout wins?

The UCF argument is over. Yes, their QB was hurt but, they couldn't beat LSU's second string defense.
The issue isn't just about making sure the 4 best teams get in each year (though that's certainly part of it). If a large percentage of the TV market is left without a chance at seeing a regional team in the cfp the ratings may dwindle, and we may even see the Big10 and PAC10 pull out of the cfp once the contract expires and go back to sending their champs to the Rose Bowl which would then garner as good if not better TV ratings than a weakened cfp. They could arguably make more $$ doing that instead of remaining in a 4-team cfp system that they see as unfair (whether or not it really is is immaterial, that's the perception). It simply is not possible to offer a realistic opportunity to all of the power 5 conferences, the group of 5 teams, and ND with only 4 slots. I don't know if expanding to 8 solves all ills, but it certainly gets all of the key players a true place at the cfp table, something that is missing with 4-team cfp.

As for the cfp committee, I prefer the committee to the BCS, I just do not like the makeup of the BCS. No current administrator from any school should sit on that committee, it's absurd that it is allowed.
 

Power Eye

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I'm not sure I'm buying this article's argument. I think it has the benefit of hindsight for support. First, I didn't hear many people arguing that Ohio St was better than Oklahoma or more deserving. I'm not saying they weren't, I just don't recall that being part of the debate.

As for Georgia, they did just get manhandled by Texas so I'm not sure that the results of Saturday would have been avoided based on the result from last night.

Regarding Notre Dame, I completely agree with what the article is saying and thought going into the final ranking that they were by far the weakest team of the teams being considered. However, there is no way an undefeated Notre Dame team is getting left out over a one loss anyone. Right or wrong.

The real problem with using this year as a judgement on the CFP selection process is that you have two teams that are clearly much more dominant than any other teams in college football. Also, this wasn't even the most lopsided semis. The 2015 semis were a joke, and the 2016 semis weren't much better. This just tells me that there are two programs who have separated themselves from everyone else, and the rest of college football needs to catch-up. Otherwise, get used to underwhelming CFP semis.
 

KrAzY3

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As for Georgia, they did just get manhandled by Texas so I'm not sure that the results of Saturday would have been avoided based on the result from last night.
I think the playoff makes a fundamentally incorrect assumption, that there are four teams worthy of competing for a national title on a given year. That's not necessarily the case.

So... when someone says something like this: "If the committee makeup changes, you've got a pretty strong chance of not ending up with games where one team loses by 27 and another team spends the entire game trying to convert fourth downs to not get blown out, then talks about not giving up.", I think it's based on a false premise. That playoffs can in theory cure all ills, and solve all problems. Didn't we all know going on that Alabama and Clemson were the two deserving teams? Usually from my research I couldn't find 4 teams that were worthy, so if it is a four team playoff you have to include a team that doesn't really belong, that's just how it goes.

The playoff can not and should not be about creating two competitive games, it can't be hey let's see who matches up well with Alabama so they don't get their butts kicked. It has to be which four teams earned a spot, and that's that. I've argued it shouldn't even be four teams, but that's another debate at this point I suppose.
 
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USCBAMA

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I'm not sure I'm buying this article's argument. I think it has the benefit of hindsight for support. First, I didn't hear many people arguing that Ohio St was better than Oklahoma or more deserving. I'm not saying they weren't, I just don't recall that being part of the debate.

As for Georgia, they did just get manhandled by Texas so I'm not sure that the results of Saturday would have been avoided based on the result from last night.

Regarding Notre Dame, I completely agree with what the article is saying and thought going into the final ranking that they were by far the weakest team of the teams being considered. However, there is no way an undefeated Notre Dame team is getting left out over a one loss anyone. Right or wrong.

The real problem with using this year as a judgement on the CFP selection process is that you have two teams that are clearly much more dominant than any other teams in college football. Also, this wasn't even the most lopsided semis. The 2015 semis were a joke, and the 2016 semis weren't much better. This just tells me that there are two programs who have separated themselves from everyone else, and the rest of college football needs to catch-up. Otherwise, get used to underwhelming CFP semis.
Even if it is conceded that ND earned the right to be in cfp despite many experts feeling they were not one of the best 4 teams, there's still no valid reason for the cfp committee to seed them 3rd instead of 4th. Heavily weighting record for selection is one thing, but seeding should be based on best teams, period.
 

KrAzY3

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there's still no valid reason for the cfp committee to seed them 3rd instead of 4th. Heavily weighting record for selection is one thing, but seeding should be based on best teams, period.
Umm... Notre Dame was undefeated. You tell me what Oklahoma did to be ranked ahead of them? Oklahoma had a dreadful defense and a loss.

Finally, no it shouldn't! Absolutely not! If you start saying forget how the team performed, forget wins and losses, let me just say ok this two loss team is better in my mind than this undefeated team, you're inviting complete chaos and subjectivity.

We all know that if Oklahoma beats Texas the first time they played, Oklahoma is seeded ahead of Notre Dame. It's as simple as that. I'm also not at all sure why Oklahoma, who barely got in at all is suddenly a deserving three seed.

You put the teams in and seed them based on performance on the field. Not on who you think is better, not on some imagined stuff that didn't occur, based on what they did on the field of play. People wanted a playoff, they got a playoff, now let the teams that earned it play in it.
 

Jay Hughes

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Umm... Notre Dame was undefeated. You tell me what Oklahoma did to be ranked ahead of them? Oklahoma had a dreadful defense and a loss.

Finally, no it shouldn't! Absolutely not! If you start saying forget how the team performed, forget wins and losses, let me just say ok this two loss team is better in my mind than this undefeated team, you're inviting complete chaos and subjectivity.

We all know that if Oklahoma beats Texas the first time they played, Oklahoma is seeded ahead of Notre Dame. It's as simple as that. I'm also not at all sure why Oklahoma, who barely got in at all is suddenly a deserving three seed.

You put the teams in and seed them based on performance on the field. Not on who you think is better, not on some imagined stuff that didn't occur, based on what they did on the field of play. People wanted a playoff, they got a playoff, now let the teams that earned it play in it.
I would go all in that Oklahoma would beat Notre Dame. I am sure that I’m not the only one.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Some of us woke up 28 years ago today and had absolutely no idea who the national champion was.

Was it Colorado, who entered the game at number one and barely held on to win?

Was it Ga Tech, the nation's only undefeated team?

Was it Miami, generally considered the best team in the country?

Was it Notre Dame, who beat Miami but had episodes of stomach turning football that cost them three games?

We wound up with two.



The bowl game scores......back when they supposedly meant something?

30-0
34-7
45-21
46-3
35-3
46-34 (but 33-7 in the third quarter so....not as fun as that look)


those were the day games.


I'm no arguing for expansion or anything - but what we have now is better.
 

GrayTide

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I love this discussion and there are a lot of valid points and some that are well, not so valid. I will just say this and let it go. The first year Alabama and Clemson do not make the playoff, the critics will say the Committee got it right and the outcry for an 8 team expansion will be completely forgotten.
 

81usaf92

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Some of us woke up 28 years ago today and had absolutely no idea who the national champion was.

Was it Colorado, who entered the game at number one and barely held on to win?

Was it Ga Tech, the nation's only undefeated team?

Was it Miami, generally considered the best team in the country?

Was it Notre Dame, who beat Miami but had episodes of stomach turning football that cost them three games?

We wound up with two.



The bowl game scores......back when they supposedly meant something?

30-0
34-7
45-21
46-3
35-3
46-34 (but 33-7 in the third quarter so....not as fun as that look)


those were the day games.


I'm no arguing for expansion or anything - but what we have now is better.
That was mostly because the Rose Bowl decided to lock everyone that they politically disagreed with out of what was thought of the defacto NCG, and forced the rest of the country to come up with a new metric to decide NCs while also trying to make regional alternatives to the Rose Bowl. Its why I hate that Roy Kramer brought the Rose Bowl back in the fold when they caused the craziness in the first place.
 

KrAzY3

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I would go all in that Oklahoma would beat Notre Dame. I am sure that I’m not the only one.
That's not a determining factor in seeding or anything else though. I could argue that Georgia could beat Clemson, but that doesn't mean Georgia belongs in over Clemson. That's never what this should be about, if it is then why are they playing regular season games if it's just an exhibition to show us how good they can be?

The results on the field matter. Having said that, it has been demonstrated that the Clemson game was closer than it appeared and the Alabama game was more of a blowout than it appeared. If Oklahoma is better than Notre Dame, it can't possible be by much.

Oklahoma had 3 wins by a single score and two losses. Notre Dame had 4 wins by a single score and one loss. There's just not much difference in their resumes, certainly not enough to overcome the regular season loss when contrasted to an undefeated Notre Dame.
 
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2ndand26

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One thing I haven't heard discussed is the extended playoffs take a toll on your roster. To me if they are going to expand the schedule they need to up the max scholarships to 90. Historically it seems we lose about one starter every playoff game.
This has always been my greatest concern with playoff expansion. If 1-seed Bama plays a 8-seed UCF in first round (to me, a meaningless game), then loses several players to injury, then their national championship aspirations are dealt a significant blow.
 

RedWave

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This has always been my greatest concern with playoff expansion. If 1-seed Bama plays a 8-seed UCF in first round (to me, a meaningless game), then loses several players to injury, then their national championship aspirations are dealt a significant blow.
There is a good flip side to that argument though. I know we have had a bad string of luck the last few years, especially with injuries on defense. But one could say that injuries are likely to happen pretty evenly across the group of teams. In that case, the team with the most depth will be least impacted and be able to move forward regardless. And that team would be us.
 

colbysullivan

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It’s so ironic because the playoffs were put in place to give more teams a chance, but I think it’s really had the opposite effect. Every year, at least one of the semifinals is a blowout. We don’t need more teams. The bottom line is there’s typically only 2-3 teams that have a legitimate chance to win the championship.

I work with a lot of people that want 8-16 teams in the playoffs and I just shake my head. Excellence should be rewarded, not mediocrity...
 

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