Question: If the Big 10 expands how would it affect the SEC?

[BamaFossil]

The usual caveat for this thread: No way does KY or Ark leave the SEC. But IF either of 'em did, the logical replacement choice IMO is FSU. Yeah, Florida wouldn't be happy. If not FSU, then Clemson or (my favorite...) VaTech. Geography is a problem re VaTech though.

Avoid the directional schools and johnny-come-latelys that won't add prestege to the SEC.

 

[Dallas4Bama]

Have any of you guys ever been on the GT campus on a game day? I have and you would never know there is a football game going on. When I lived in Atlanta a friend asked if I wanted to go to a game so I said yes. So we went and set up a small tailgate and were having a nice time and twice we had students walk up and ask is what was going on. They were on their way to the library, saw the us out there and wanted to know if something had happened.


TCU can't fill up their stadium either. They filled it up the first time this year and it isn't that big. Their fan base is about as interested in football as Samford's is. They are on the bandwagon this year, but I really doubt they can sustain it. They play good football now, but most of their alumni picked another team to pull for like UT, TT, OU, etc.... years ago. You can get into a TCU football game free with just a student ID guys.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[RollTideMang]

Have any of you guys ever been on the GT campus on a game day? I have and you would never know there is a football game going on. When I lived in Atlanta a friend asked if I wanted to go to a game so I said yes. So we went and set up a small tailgate and were having a nice time and twice we had students walk up and ask is what was going on. They were on their way to the library, saw the us out there and wanted to know if something had happened.


TCU can't fill up their stadium either. They filled it up the first time this year and it isn't that big. Their fan base is about as interested in football as Samford's is. They are on the bandwagon this year, but I really doubt they can sustain it. They play good football now, but most of their alumni picked another team to pull for like UT, TT, OU, etc.... years ago. You can get into a TCU football game free with just a student ID guys.
Posted via Mobile Device

I'd be willing to bet money that if they got back in the SEC, they would have plenty of people tailgating within a year or two. If not GT fans, then plenty of fans from their SEC opponents, which would eventually get the GT fans out as well.

 

[Dallas4Bama]

I'd be willing to bet money that if they got back in the SEC, they would have plenty of people tailgating within a year or two. If not GT fans, then plenty of fans from their SEC opponents, which would eventually get the GT fans out as well.

I think GT has a couple of problems that could keep them from ever drawing a large base again. First, there is a very large number of students at GT that are here on student visas. The visiting international students don't really follow the game. Also much of the rest of the GT student population is made up a a demographic that doesn't traditionally follow football. Then many of the ones that do come from a background that traditionally follow the game after a couple of semesters begin to feel superior to the ignorant people that follow such a simple minded game. I'm sure I will take some heat for this.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Tradition4ever]

Scenarios: If Arkansas leaves and the replacement comes from the east, Vanderbilt moves to the Western Division. If Kentucky leaves and the replacement comes from the west, it gets tricky. Auburn could very well move to the Eastern Division, which would mean Alabama would have to drop either Auburn or Tennessee as a regular opponent. It would probably end up being Tennessee that got dropped, sad to say.

I wonder about your suggested possibility of Vandy moving to the SEC Western Division if Arkansas leaves. I would think that the coaches and AD's for the SEC East schools would very much dislike this scenario b/c it would take away a yearly game with Vandy and replace it with a possible game with a better program (unless the team the SEC added was a "cupcake" type team). Also, you would be putting Vandy and Miss. St. in the the same division, which seems a little illogical since they both historically reside at the bottom of their respective divisions. I just think that the SEC East coaches would see this reallignment as a sort of stacking the deck against them in terms of getting to ATL and getting to a nicer bowl by year's end...

 

[KrAzY3]

I wonder about your suggested possibility of Vandy moving to the SEC Western Division if Arkansas leaves. I would think that the coaches and AD's for the SEC East schools would very much dislike this scenario b/c it would take away a yearly game with Vandy and replace it with a possible game with a better program (unless the team the SEC added was a "cupcake" type team). Also, you would be putting Vandy and Miss. St. in the the same division, which seems a little illogical since they both historically reside at the bottom of their respective divisions. I just think that the SEC East coaches would see this reallignment as a sort of stacking the deck against them in terms of getting to ATL and getting to a nicer bowl by year's end...

Take this year for example... Vanderbilt was a doormat (0-8), but the West's worst was Mississippi at 3-5 (tied with 4 other teams, two in the East). The West also was better at the top, both in conference and out So, I don't think moving Vandy is a instant imbalance. You move Vandy to the West this year and take our Arkansas and the West still looks better than the East did this year.

 

[JessN]

I wonder about your suggested possibility of Vandy moving to the SEC Western Division if Arkansas leaves. I would think that the coaches and AD's for the SEC East schools would very much dislike this scenario b/c it would take away a yearly game with Vandy and replace it with a possible game with a better program (unless the team the SEC added was a "cupcake" type team). Also, you would be putting Vandy and Miss. St. in the the same division, which seems a little illogical since they both historically reside at the bottom of their respective divisions. I just think that the SEC East coaches would see this reallignment as a sort of stacking the deck against them in terms of getting to ATL and getting to a nicer bowl by year's end...

If you don't bring Vanderbilt over, who do you bring? There is already overlap in the divisions (Auburn is farther east than Nashville), and the next closest one would be either Kentucky or Georgia. Kentucky is a cupcake in most years, too. As for Georgia, bringing them over doesn't solve a lot. You bring them over and replace them with, say, a Louisville or a NC State and now you've only got two traditional contenders in the East (Florida, Tennessee) while the West gets Alabama, Georgia, LSU and Auburn.

Moving Vanderbilt to the West actually balances the two divisions. The West typically has one doormat -- whichever Mississippi school is struggling that year. The East has Vandy and Kentucky, and South Carolina more often than not.

The only negative of moving Vandy to the West is that Tennessee would have to drop Vandy as a yearly rival. The Vols already play Alabama every year and you can't have two other-division teams on the schedule every year.

If you brought over Georgia and replaced them in the East with Georgia Tech, you have the same issue -- now Georgia can't play Florida every year, because they'd definitely be playing Tech every year as their other-division rival team. You also steal away South Carolina's big conference rival (UGA) in the process.

Someone's going to get crapped on, and the most likely candidate is Vandy. The only scenario under which it doesn't hurt anyone is to add Clemson, because Georgia could keep Florida as its rivalry game and South Carolina would get a replacement rival. In that event, only Tennessee would lose a rivalry game (UGA), but Georgia is Tennessee's third rival at best.

 

[Heavy D]

Again, I think adding Houston would be a very good option (because if anybody is leaving the SEC it would likely be Arkansas). The reason I say Houston over TCU is Houston is in a larger market and has just as much potential. The reason I say Houston over FSU, Clemson, Louisville, GT or VT is that the conference is already strong enough so you replace a mid-level team with a university that has the potential of being mid-level in the SEC and you add that Texas/Houston market. Houston would have a rivalry with LSU, especially if you consider the proximity of the 2 schools. The Arkansas/LSU rivalry to me has always seemed forced. None of my friends that are LSU fans think Arkansas is their chief rival. They'd be 3rd or 4th on the list.

Not to mention that Florida would not want FSU, Miami or USF in the conference and frankly there is no need for those teams to be in. Kentucky would not want Louisville. Georgia wouldn't want GT. South Carolina wouldn't want Clemson. West Virginia adds nothing. VT and NC State would be viable options and open up new markets (and recruiting areas), but Houston is a bigger market than both of those combined.

My dream team to get in the SEC would be North Carolina. Could you imagine Kentucky vs. NC twice per year?

 

[RollTideMang]

My dream team to get in the SEC would be North Carolina. Could you imagine Kentucky vs. NC twice per year?

To be honest, I can't imagine having to sit through college basketball twice per year :biggrin2:

 

[selmaborntidefan]

I don't want the title to be a teaser, so please adjust as necessary.

I have 2 scenarios.

Scenario #1:
IF the Big 10 were to talk Kentucky into leaving the SEC for the Big 10, who would the SEC replace Kentucky with? Would it be a more eastern school? Would it be a western school and if so would the divisions need to be reworked? Please do not respond with whether Kentucky would do it or not, this is just a question of what if.

Scenario #2:
IF the Big 10 were to take Mizzou from the Big 12 and IF Arkansas were to join the Big 12, who would replace Arkansas? Would it be a more eastern school? Would it be a western school and if so would the divisions need to be reworked?

Again, please don't respond with the likelihood of this happening or not, this is just for discussion.

How would it affect the Big Ten?

It would simply increase by one university the number of folks whining that the SEC never plays the Big Ten on the road in November. (Once again, getting them to find open weeks is the same kind of math that calls them the Big Ten despite have ELEVEN teams for 15 years now).

 

[time_4_the_TIDE]

I have been wondering the whole time since this story broke who the Big 10 would be able to get....

Notre Dame is who they want, but it just ain't happening. They are better off the way they are now. I don't think it is fair or right but such is life.

Mizzou is a charter member of the Big 12 and I don't see them leaving.

KY has it just the way they want it in the SEC and BB.

Pitt maybe....but now with Kelly gone to ND, they might feel they will have a better shot at a BCS bowl yr in yr out.

Cincy maybe....after Kelly leaving for ND they may be more amenable to getting into the Big 10, further growing their FB program, in hopes of one day not being a stepping stone for coaches

After that you have to look in the lesser conferences.

Central Michigan seems to be the best option in that dept. IMO.



As far as who I would rather have if we lose one.....that would be Clemson or FSU. As others have said GT really could care less about FB these days. The GT today is not the same GT of old and I think having another school that actually cares about FB is more deserving of the vacancy. Original member or not this is the SEC and we just don't mess around anymore. I don't see FL making too much of a fuss about letting FSU in. First they play them every yr. Miami and FL are about to quit playing each other all together anyway, leaving FL with 2 rivalries (GA, FSU) that they play every yr already. To me FSU and Clemson make the most sense....FSU the most due to (above) and they are more centrally located to be put in either division of the SEC.

 

[THE BAMA IRISHMAN]

If it happens it will not have an affect on the SEC. Does the country need two Big 12 Conferences. Big12 Mid and Big12 West. :biggrin:

 

[PalmBayBama]

Not to mention that Florida would not want FSU, Miami or USF in the conference and frankly there is no need for those teams to be in. Kentucky would not want Louisville. Georgia wouldn't want GT. South Carolina wouldn't want Clemson.

The reason I always hear for vetoing another in-state opponent is that you don't want to legitimize them. So Alabama would veto Troy or UAB, for instance. But Florida already plays FSU every year, Kentucky already plays Louisville every year, Georgia already plays GT every year, and South Carolina already plays Clemson every year. I guess letting a non-conference rival in forces a team to find somebody else to schedule non-conference, but I don't really see any other downside.

 

[JessN]

The reason I always hear for vetoing another in-state opponent is that you don't want to legitimize them. So Alabama would veto Troy or UAB, for instance. But Florida already plays FSU every year, Kentucky already plays Louisville every year, Georgia already plays GT every year, and South Carolina already plays Clemson every year. I guess letting a non-conference rival in forces a team to find somebody else to schedule non-conference, but I don't really see any other downside.

South Carolina and Clemson wouldn't be much of an issue since Clemson is already considered the stronger program of the two and the two of them don't really barge into either team's recruiting territory. If anything, I would expect Georgia or Tennessee to have more of a problem with Clemson coming in.

Georgia Tech is a little different. The dynamics of the fan base in and around Atlanta has gone strongly for Georgia since Tech left the conference. Georgia would strengthen Tech a great deal by letting them back in. Alabama and Auburn have also begun to target Atlanta vigorously in recruiting over the last 10-20 years and South Carolina is starting to get in on the act. Tech has a lot of strong historical ties to the conference but there are four or five teams out there who probably would prefer them stay where they're at. Tech is considered a 9-3 program at best long-term and those numbers may continue to drop the further you get away from their initial SEC exit date.

Florida State probably doesn't want in. Their best chance to get to the BCS Championship Game is through the ACC. But even if they did, with Bowden being gone from the picture, there's some question as to how long FSU will stay a power especially with UCF and USF coming to prominence in larger, more attractive cities. If Florida let them in, it could have the effect of re-energizing a program that is currently on the ropes a bit.

It's politics, but aside from money (specifically, which school would mean the most to the conference), it's the most important consideration. Competitiveness or the ability to make an interesting matchup runs a distant third.

 

[GrayTide]

I have said before that, IMO, FSU and Miami are programs whose best days are behind them. Miami dominated the Big East and FSU dominated the ACC in the 80's and 90's but it is a different college football world now. The resurrection of UF as a perennial national power and the emergence of new programs at UCF, USF, FIU, and FAU has diluted the talent pool for FSU and Miami; not to mention the other SEC schools who raid Florida for talent. FSU post Bowden will not be what it was and their new HC is suspect at best.

Clemson historically has been the dominant program in SC and that will continue with or without SOS. Clemson would be the best fit because of its program's tradition, its SEC size attendance, and Clemson fans are noted to travel on par with most SEC programs.

GT suffers from being a college program in a professional sports city, too many outlets vying for the Atlanta sports dollar. As Jess said it is a political and financial decision and whatever happens will not happen any time soon.

 

[WishIwasInBama]

I have said before that, IMO, FSU and Miami are programs whose best days are behind them. Miami dominated the Big East and FSU dominated the ACC in the 80's and 90's but it is a different college football world now. The resurrection of UF as a perennial national power and the emergence of new programs at UCF, USF, FIU, and FAU has diluted the talent pool for FSU and Miami; not to mention the other SEC schools who raid Florida for talent. FSU post Bowden will not be what it was and their new HC is suspect at best.

I think the fact that FSU and Miami were down for a few years as a lot to do with UF becoming what they have. There are more than enough athletes in Florida to go around even with the USF's of the state. FSU hasn't really had that much of a problem recruiting its just the leadership has been out of whack for a while now. I am not sold on Jimbo either but if he can get alot of those guys to play to at least 80 percent of their potential versus the 50 percent they seem to put out now I think the will do fine. After all they still play in the ACC