Question: If the Big 10 expands how would it affect the SEC?

bamacon

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I think ND is going to have to join a league at some point. The Big 10 makes the most sense. If they snatch a team from the SEC it would likely be Ark. over UK. I just don't see UK leaving but if they did I think GT would get a serious look along with USF. USF has exploded onto the scene and the SEC would be the ultimate for them. I like the Houston talk as well. Tremendous market there.
 

Honden

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Out of the west , I'd like to see a Texas school. We already have 2 schools from Mississippi. From the ACC I'd like to see FSU, Clemson, or Va Tech.

Hey I know ! Lets invite Boise St! The travel would suck, but we would never ever hear of how great BSU is anymore. It would give them the chance to put up or shut up against a REAL schedule.
 

Honden

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I think ND is going to have to join a league at some point. The Big 10 makes the most sense. If they snatch a team from the SEC it would likely be Ark. over UK. I just don't see UK leaving but if they did I think GT would get a serious look along with USF. USF has exploded onto the scene and the SEC would be the ultimate for them. I like the Houston talk as well. Tremendous market there.
I agree. The handwriting is already on the wall. It's just a matter of time. Notre Dame is getting to the point where they need a conference and The Big 10 is the most natural fit.
 

RollTideMang

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I agree. The handwriting is already on the wall. It's just a matter of time. Notre Dame is getting to the point where they need a conference and The Big 10 is the most natural fit.
Especially if they don't start having some better seasons. If they keep having bad seasons, they're going to lose more and more fair weather fans to winning teams which will cause them to lose money. If they lose money, they might lose their TV contracts.
 

rollntider

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I say Arkansas would leave since they have rivalries with Texas and a&m.

I would also mention Iowa State could leave from the big 12.

TCU or Clemson would be a great addition.

If we add TCU move the Barn to the East

If we add Clemson add Vandy to the West...
 
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glasscutter256

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I think FSU makes the most sense. Geographically, football-minded, recruiting. I would hate it because it would be that much more competition for the panhandle. I think the best kids want to play in the SEC. Some don't go there because it is ACC. GT would be another good replacement. Rekindle all those old rivalries.
 

GrayTide

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IMO there are cetain programs that are currently hot but history shows they are no shows, for example Boise State, TCU, and Houston. Also IMO the one school in the ACC that has a good tradition and has been relevant is Clemson. Clemson in the past has been snubbed by its ACC bretheren due to the power of the NC schools and now the Florida and Virginia schools. Replace Kentucky with Clemson.

I had rather see Clemson replace Vanderbilt. Let Vanderbilt join the MAC or SunBelt they would be more competitive and with their overflow crowds of 30,000+ they would be a good fit.
 
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RJ YellowHammer

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P.S. Everyone keeps saying if Mizzou goes to the Big10...I'm just curious if someone can tell me what reason they would leave the Big12 for the Big1012? Do they feel they would have a better chance to win?
The Big 10's media deal is huge! I saw somewhere recently that the Big Televen's media package as a whole is slightly larger then the SEC's, with a huge drop back to third place. I'm not saying they will, but if Mizzou takes the plunge $$$ is going to be the deciding factor.
 

RollTideMang

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IMO there are cetain programs that are currently hot but history shows they are no shows, for example Boise State, TCU, and Houston. Also IMO the one school in the ACC that has a good tradition and has been relevant is Clemson. Clemson in the past has been snubbed by its ACC bretheren due to the power of the NC schools and now the Florida and Virginia schools. Replace Kentucky with Clemson.

I had rather see Clemson replace Vanderbilt. Let Vanderbilt join the MAC or SunBelt they would be more competitive and with their overflow crowds of 30,000+ they would be a good fit.
Actually it would be more fun to move Vandy to the West and the Barn to the East since it makes sense geographically. Then maybe we could drop the Barn and get GT :biggrin2:. Other than that, I like the SEC the way it is.
 

RJ YellowHammer

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IMO there are cetain programs that are currently hot but history shows they are no shows, for example Boise State, TCU, and Houston. Also IMO the one school in the ACC that has a good tradition and has been relevant is Clemson. Clemson in the past has been snubbed by its ACC bretheren due to the power of the NC schools and now the Florida and Virginia schools. Replace Kentucky with Clemson.

I had rather see Clemson replace Vanderbilt. Let Vanderbilt join the MAC or SunBelt they would be more competitive and with their overflow crowds of 30,000+ they would be a good fit.
We need Vandy to keep the conference GPA up. You're dead on about Clemson though. They're a football school stuck in a basketball conference.
 

rgw

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Personally, I'd hope that the Big Ten goes after Mizzou like rumored. The Big-XII coaxes Arkansas away for the SEC and the SEC goes after Georgia Tech or Clemson. I think Clemson will be a hard get because they are a charter member of the ACC. It would almost be like Georgia or Tennessee leaving the SEC, I just don't see it ever happening. Georgia Tech is a possibility? Has their issues with the SEC subsided over the last half century?

I think that if the SEC does have to add a new member there will be a very selective criteria. The SEC is in a position of strength for a conference like no other time in college football history. The SEC of 1991 that took a leftover from the wreckage of the SWC and a mediocre independent ain't the SEC of 2009. The SEC has the most lucrative television contract packages of any conference, the most bowl tie-ins, and seven national champions since conference expansion.

To me, that means you can write off any hypothetical suitors from mid-major conferences. If the SEC loses a member in the conference reshuffling sure to happen if the Big Ten does follow through, you have to assume that the SEC will want to make at least a lateral move and more likely that they'll want to make a "strengthening move." I believe the SEC will prefer any major program with a strong football tradition but that Slive will demand a program that fields quality programs in many sports. Also, I think increasing the conference's "regional footprint" will be a consideration also. More states with SEC teams directly equates to more eyes watching SEC athletic broadcasts which means demanding even more money upon the new television contract discussions.

Preferably, the conference members wouldn't want to "legitimize" any program in their state by promoting them to the SEC. So who I think you can write off completely as a legitimate candidate:

- UAB
- Troy
- FIU
- FAU
- UCF
- USM
- Memphis

Besides the fact that these teams aren't strong enough athletic programs holistically or even just in football to really make a claim.

So when you start narrowing down teams that are strong enough as an athletic program with a football tradition and also consider teams that would expand the SEC's television audience, I can come up with this list:

1) Georgia Tech: They are a traditional football power but they compete well in all sports. They add an elite academic power to pair with Vanderbilt. They don't really add a new market, but they are a charter member of the SEC and would likely be a welcomed addition.

2) Clemson: They are a solid football program and they compete well in all sports. They are solid academically but like GT don't really expand the SEC market that much.

3) Louisville: They were a great football program until Kragthrope ran them into the ground, they have great potential in football and are already a power in basketball.

4) Virginia Tech: They don't really have a great name in other sports, but their football team is solid and they expand the SEC into the Commonwealth region.

All these schools are already powers within SEC states or could expand the SEC reach into regionally approximate states.
 
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RollTideMang

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Personally, I'd hope that the Big Ten goes after Mizzou like rumored. The Big-XII coaxes Arkansas away for the SEC and the SEC goes after Georgia Tech or Clemson. I think Clemson will be a hard get because they are a charter member of the ACC. It would almost be like Georgia or Tennessee leaving the SEC, I just don't see it ever happening. Georgia Tech is a possibility? Has their issues with the SEC subsided over the last half century?
I read somewhere that after GT left the SEC, they patched things up with Alabama, and CBB was trying to help them get back in the SEC. Before it was required for SEC teams to play each other, GT thought they were too good to play the Mississippi teams, and so Ole Miss and Miss St blocked GT from getting back in.
 

KrAzY3

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IMO there are cetain programs that are currently hot but history shows they are no shows, for example Boise State, TCU, and Houston. Also IMO the one school in the ACC that has a good tradition and has been relevant is Clemson. Clemson in the past has been snubbed by its ACC bretheren due to the power of the NC schools and now the Florida and Virginia schools. Replace Kentucky with Clemson.

I had rather see Clemson replace Vanderbilt. Let Vanderbilt join the MAC or SunBelt they would be more competitive and with their overflow crowds of 30,000+ they would be a good fit.
I wouldn't put TCU in the same group as Houston and Boise State. TCU has better attendance and more wins than both those teams put together.

I don't want to see Kentucky or Vanderbilt leave. Some people think it would be a good idea to (for instance) replace those two teams with Georgia Tech and Florida State. The SEC is tough enough already, don't overdo it.

I do see room to add two or four (maximum) more teams and Clemson would be tops on that list but that would be really pushing it. The SEC has a good balance right now.
 

RollTideMang

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I do see room to add two or four (maximum) more teams and Clemson would be tops on that list but that would be really pushing it. The SEC has a good balance right now.
I think if the SEC adds 4 more, then we would receive a lot more scrutiny for having fewer OOC games.
 

bamacon

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I read somewhere that after GT left the SEC, they patched things up with Alabama, and CBB was trying to help them get back in the SEC. Before it was required for SEC teams to play each other, GT thought they were too good to play the Mississippi teams, and so Ole Miss and Miss St blocked GT from getting back in.
I think it was more of a money-sharing thing once the bowls started because the MS teams stunk and "didn't pull their own weight" so to speak. Like college football welfare.;)
 

rgw

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Yep, bamacon, the Dodd-Bryant feud was probably overplayed and a good way to take the focus over the ugly "dollars-and-cents" reason for their departure. Dodd and Bryant resolved their differences but Dodd had a problem with Mississippi State being a perennial doormat yet still getting a cut of Georgia Tech's bowl earnings. There weren't as many bowl games back then and you had to make an honest attempt at establishing a football program to have a shot of making a bowl. Mississippi State hasn't ever really made that commitment in their entire history.

I don't think it was the whole state of Mississippi that Dodd hated because Ole Miss was doing their fare share of winning under Vaught. I don't doubt that there may have been a contentious relationship with Ole Miss for Dodd because they were a power in the SEC in his time, but his problems with revenue sharing was squarely on the shoulders of Mississippi State.

What's funny is that one of the most attractive reasons for returning to the SEC in Georgia Tech's eyes is the revenue sharing model. In Dodd's days there wasn't 9 bowl tie-ins for the SEC and there sure as heck wasn't a large conference-wide television contract with regional and national broadcasters. The revenue model that he detested in the 1960s would be a financial windfall in 2009 even with Vandy and Mississippi State getting a usually undeserved slice.
 

JessN

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I'd put Kentucky's chances of leaving at somewhere around 10 percent, tops. A much more possible scenario would be Missouri heading to the Big 10 and being replaced by Arkansas, who has never truly fit in here (although the Arkansas-LSU rivalry is finally starting to heat up).

Let me preface any of the following by reminding folks that a big part of the reason Arkansas and South Carolina entered the conference painlessly the last time was neither team had an in-state rival sitting there ready to veto the deal. Keep that in mind when adding teams from states that already have a SEC team.

Also, any scenario that involves ejecting Vanderbilt isn't realistic. Vandy takes a beating in football, but they get paid for it and it funds everything else they do, and they're not leaving. Plus, the other schools appreciate the occasional breather when playing them.

And we're off...

1) Tulane. Positives: Used to be in the conference, gets the SEC back into the Superdome four additional times a year, has a sterling academic reputation. Negatives: Isn't competitive, at last check didn't even have a marching band, has low fan support and doesn't bring a lot to the table in terms of traveling for bowls. And LSU would have a cow if it even came up. Odds: 50-1.

2) Houston. Positives: Nice facilities, emerging football program, huge TV market to tap into. Negatives: Texas is not the Southeast, still some bad aftertaste from the John Jenkins debacle, no traditional rival. Odds: 10-1.

3) Southern Miss. Positives: Has played every SEC team so much that they're practically family already, built-in rivalries in-state and against UA/AU. Negatives: Both Mississippi schools are already scared to death of them and there's no way they let this one slide by, not to mention facilities are not top-notch. Odds: 40-1.

4) TCU: Positives: Good fan support, strong football team, already plays a SEC-style game. Negatives: Again, Texas is not the Southeast, private school with facilities that trail in a lot of ways, no traditional rival. Odds: 20-1.

5) Louisiana-Lafayette. Positives: Excellent fan support for the level of school in question, long history playing SEC teams, has its own tradition and a bunch of them already have a built-in hatred for LSU over the school's name (tried to get it called "The University of Louisiana" once but LSU interests in the state legislature killed the idea). Negatives: Small stadium, small dollars, big objections from Tigah land. Odds: 50-1.

6) Georgia Tech. Positives: Prodigal-son program, great tradition, great academics, lots of history. Negatives: Younger Atlanta is now largely a UGA town, UGA would probably poop a brick if this suggestion came up, South Carolina also wouldn't care much for elevating GT's recruiting profile. Odds: 8-1.

7) Memphis. Positives: Large city, decent-sized athletic budget, good facilities, great secondary programs (basketball, etc.), and in the event of Kentucky leaving would replace a rivalry game on UT's schedule. Negatives: Despite not really being in UT's recruiting sphere, the Vols wouldn't want this. And if it's Arkansas that leaves and not UK, UT would be overloaded with rivals. Also some academic questions about the school in general. Odds: 20-1.

8) Clemson. Positives: Pretty much the most SEC-like of the ACC schools already. They already play South Carolina every year, so there wouldn't be much of an objection from the Gamecocks, and they actually fund their other programs. Negatives: Really none from the SEC's end. Odds: 5-1

9) Florida State. Positives: Good basketball and baseball programs, fertile recruiting territory. Negatives: Lots of NCAA attention lately, no more Bowden draw, Florida seems to regard them differently than USC does Clemson. Odds: 10-1.

10) Central Florida. Positives: Emerging program in a growing market, starting to make waves in other sports. Negatives: Football has spun its wheels a little lately, Florida is in no hurry to legitimize another in-state recruiting competitor. Odds: 30-1.

11) South Florida. Positives: Good fan support for a young program, large student base and they travel well. Negatives: Still mostly a commuter school without a lot of national prestige. And see the comments about Florida and UCF and apply them here. Odds: 40-1.

12) Louisville. Positives: Great basketball program to go with the football program. Stadium is one of the nicest anywhere for its size. Name recognition is better now than ever. Negatives: If Kentucky leaves, Louisville won't be interested, but if Kentucky stays, can Louisville get in? Odds: 15-1.

13) NC State. Positives: Opens up North Carolina as a SEC state, no objections expected from the other schools (other than perhaps UT over recruiting territories). Negatives: Traditional rivals remain in the ACC, path to a championship gets harder in the SEC. Odds: 25-1.

14) East Carolina. Positives: Football program has achieved a bit of respect, no objections expected on rivalry grounds. Negatives: FB team is basically all they have, small fan base, sort of a glorified Southern Miss. Odds: 40-1.

15) Virginia Tech, Florida International, Florida Atlantic, Louisiana Tech, Louisiana-Monroe, Arkansas State, Troy, UAB, Miami. I'll give you 100-1 for this entire group.

Scenarios: If Arkansas leaves and the replacement comes from the east, Vanderbilt moves to the Western Division. If Kentucky leaves and the replacement comes from the west, it gets tricky. Auburn could very well move to the Eastern Division, which would mean Alabama would have to drop either Auburn or Tennessee as a regular opponent. It would probably end up being Tennessee that got dropped, sad to say.
 

Bama 1122

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If I ran the zoo, and assuming that any school I chose would willingly come, I'd pick Georgia Tech.

They were a charter SEC school. Geographically, the fit is obvious, and personally, I don't think that the SEC really needs to expand its borders. Academically, it increases the prestige of the conference dramatically. It's been 33 years since Bobby Dodd took a paycheck from the school, so that should be water under the bridge no matter what rationale you apply to them leaving the conference. They have a solid tradition in all of the major sports, and are currently competitive in them as well.

For Tech, it could possibly allow them to have a football rivalry with Auburn again (I know that having an annual game would require conference realignment and/or going back to the 5/2/1 scheduling format, but that's another thread for another time). That was a pretty big game back in the day - the schools have played each other 92 times, even though they've only played twice since 1987, and until then they had met every year but one since 1905. Getting out from under the giant shadow cast by the North Carolina schools in basketball is nice too, and they'd probably fancy themselves in the upper echelon of basketball schools in the conference straight away.
 
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