Shhhhhhh...enough of that negative vibe. We want to keep ol' Will down there at least another 8-10 years.
Interesting: Muschamp vs. Zook
- Thread starter crimsonaudio
- Start date
Talent level had declined a bit in Spurrier's final years, but if you don't believe that Meyer left the cupboard exceedingly bare you are just kidding yourself.
Admittedly Meyer a lot of kids on campus with great pure talent, but there were a lot of "athletes" who didn't fit defined positions, glorified track kids who weren't much in the way of football players, no real solution(s) at quarterback, and a boatload of kids who were either outright basket cases or otherwise had the work ethic of Homer Simpson. Don't forget, in his final year at Florida, Meyer went only 8-5, which included three very ugly blowouts, in what was a down year for the SEC and a particularly weak year for the SEC East. Meyer left Florida in a worse situation than he inherited it from Zook, at least from a roster construction perspective, and those struggles in his final year were not just health related. That '10 Florida team had some real structural problems, and it wasn't something that could be rectified on short notice.
Given that, I think Muschamp has done pretty well in his first three years, even if it hasn't been a spectacular job. We just have to see now if he can take Florida to the next level, or if he will peter out. Offense is obviously the issue in Gainesville, and I think it's pretty clear Florida won't take off until (or if) the offense starts to produce. Maybe Muschamp gets it sorted out and turns Florida into an annual contender, though I will add that offensive recruiting remains suspect.
Admittedly Meyer a lot of kids on campus with great pure talent, but there were a lot of "athletes" who didn't fit defined positions, glorified track kids who weren't much in the way of football players, no real solution(s) at quarterback, and a boatload of kids who were either outright basket cases or otherwise had the work ethic of Homer Simpson. Don't forget, in his final year at Florida, Meyer went only 8-5, which included three very ugly blowouts, in what was a down year for the SEC and a particularly weak year for the SEC East. Meyer left Florida in a worse situation than he inherited it from Zook, at least from a roster construction perspective, and those struggles in his final year were not just health related. That '10 Florida team had some real structural problems, and it wasn't something that could be rectified on short notice.
Given that, I think Muschamp has done pretty well in his first three years, even if it hasn't been a spectacular job. We just have to see now if he can take Florida to the next level, or if he will peter out. Offense is obviously the issue in Gainesville, and I think it's pretty clear Florida won't take off until (or if) the offense starts to produce. Maybe Muschamp gets it sorted out and turns Florida into an annual contender, though I will add that offensive recruiting remains suspect.
They're not firing CWM unless some scandal breaks or he ends up with a bad losing season.
Urban Meyer left a big mess. Muschamp overachieved last year to get to 11-2. This year they're missing a third of their starters. A THIRD!
I'm not saying Muschamp is a great coach or that he won't get fired next year, but there's just no way he gets canned this year.
Urban Meyer left a big mess. Muschamp overachieved last year to get to 11-2. This year they're missing a third of their starters. A THIRD!
I'm not saying Muschamp is a great coach or that he won't get fired next year, but there's just no way he gets canned this year.
the difference is Muschamp has lost to ranked and/or decent teams. Zook lost to a Miss State team that could not beat a bad Maine team.
Agreed. Kirby Smart need to go somewhere else first and get experience like McElwain.
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It's a tricky situation. Boom may not be the coach that will win them a NC in the next three years, but they could easily go downward if they jump on the coaching carousel without a solid plan. Nice popcorn thread, BTW.
Main difference... Muschamp went 7-6 in year 1 then 11-2 in year 2. He got better from Year 1 to Year 2.
Zook went 8-5 in his first two years then 7-6. His teams' records never improved.
Muschamp will undoubtedly get another year barring a complete collapse.
Zook went 8-5 in his first two years then 7-6. His teams' records never improved.
Muschamp will undoubtedly get another year barring a complete collapse.
That gives us a template to judge him by.
I think Ray Perkins was the wrong hire because he'd never been a college head coach. His pro resume was rather misleading, but he'd only done a year at MSU as an assistant. Curry was a better hire than Perkins precisely because he'd been at a tough place at Georgia Tech and improved their standing. True, he was a mediocrity, but he was a better risk than Tampa Bay Ray.
Stallings is the one coach we've had whose template was a tad misleading. He had been a head coach at aTm two decades earlier but had spent a TON of time in the NFL. An argument can be made that Stallings benefited from Curry's recruiting and then was aided by Auburn's concurrent probation. At the same time, he DID turn out to be the right hire - and even though is college head coaching experience was decades earlier, he had done it. DuBose was a disaster on every level. Anyone who did not see what was coming with him has never paid attention to coaching hires. Fran - despite the end of his tenure - was probably the right idea for a transitional coach. His entire career had been climbing upward and never leaving footprints. He never demonstrated the ability to recruit - and we now know he couldn't.
Shula, well what needs to be said? No head coaching experience at ANY level, surely the most unqualified head coach we've hired - perhaps in the history of the school. And the results bore this out.
Look at who has been successful lately:
Saban - previously at several colleges, including an SEC school and the NFL
Spurrier - USFL and then Duke college experience and on to Florida
Miles - good at Okie St, better at LSU
Meyer - very good at BGSU and Utah before Florida and now Ohio St
Mack Brown - before he began imploding, he did well at Tulane and UNC and then had a great run at Texas
Jim Tressel - although it was not FBS, he DID have college experience prior to tOSU
There are a few exceptions, of course, but look a little closer:
Bob Stoops - his national title looks more like being lucky than anything else
Pete Carroll - now appears his entire team was a bunch of pros
Larry Coker - inherited a great situation and blew it to pieces
Mark Richt might qualify as one of the exceptions but then again we are talking about a guy who has won a grand total of TWO SEC championships in TWELVE tries. (By comparison, DuBose and Chizik combined had two SEC and one national title in only half the time - if you count the years they won these as the end. And NOBODY would say either guy is a better head coach than Richt). And Chizik himself is proof that prior head coaching experience is no proof of success - although common sense would tell you that a guy who is 5-19 at Iowa State is not exactly moving things in the right direction.
Based on the law of averages, we need somebody who has prior HEAD COACHING experience at a reputable place and has done well. A guy for the future might well be Bill O'Brien at Penn State (who turns 44 today and is five days older than I). Just look at what he has done thus far in that bubbling cauldron.
That said - let's not worry about this for say another 8-10 years.
I always thought Muschamp was overrated anyway.
I am of the opinion that regardless of this season's outcome Muschamp gets another year at UF. I find it unfathomable that a program like UF's does not have a couple of marquee recruits ready to play QB. I know Driscol was injured but do you really think he was UF's best bet, if so then their recruiting has really taken at hit, at least from an offensive standpoint. I realize UF has had its share of injuries, but at this point they have a very weak offensive pulse. The UGA vs UF game ought to be good, one team with no offense vs one team with no defense.
In fairness, Driskel was a unanimous four-star prospect and Rivals pegged him as the #1 QB prospect nationally for the 2011 class. For some guys, the light bulb just never turns on at the college level and Driskel has been further hampered by poor coaching and development.
I agree with your overall point, though. There is simply no excuse for a program like Florida to be as poor offensively as they are.
Despite my stick-poking in this thread, I'd be shocked if CWM gets fired at the end of this season. That said, I grew up in FL, and I've quite a few friends who are UF alumni / fans - many of them feel like they need a different solution (and no, these aren't the knee-jerk types).
I think if they miss a bowl game, with a loss to FSU, they're be some serious grumbling, but I think he remains at least through next year. Don't know if he survives four losses to UGA, however.
I think if they miss a bowl game, with a loss to FSU, they're be some serious grumbling, but I think he remains at least through next year. Don't know if he survives four losses to UGA, however.
My take is you are right but the biggest difference is Zook did not fight back, CWM will & big time in the face of those trying to get him. Spurrier & Meyer did not take any thing off the fans especially the Bull Gators. Galen Hall & Zook did.
CWM will not be fired before his contract expires I think.
No doubt that a program like Florida ought to be consistently potent on offense, but I would be somewhat wary to assign too much blame in specific to their development (or lack thereof) of Driskel. QB recruiting is inherently a crapshoot, even with the most highly-touted of recruits, and there isn't a school of note that doesn't have its fair share of can't-miss QB recruits who turned into flops (and that certainly includes us, too).
Having said that, I do think Florida is starting to get hamstrung a bit in the sense that they've had so many highly-recruited offensive signees who went to Gainesville and just proverbially face-planted, and I do think there are a lot of kids out there now who would otherwise be more open to sign with them that are hesitant to do so in fear of becoming just the next in a long line of offensive busts. Rightly or not, Florida has a reputation now as being a bit of a black hole for highly talented offensive skill players.
You make a good point...it's sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy for Florida.
I'll add that I really think their scheme and playcalling is as much to blame as their recruiting and player development...I'm not sure how close Brent Pease ever was to the Alabama OC job but I'm certainly grateful that he didn't get it. I've watched several UF games over the last two seasons and from my perspective it's almost like they've got a random grab-bag in the booth filled with a wide and disparate selection of plays and they just go with whatever comes out of the bag.
Which is why I'm convinced that CWM's 'learning on the job' is the issue - this is NOT CBP's offense.
Coach Bryant thought Florida was a underachieving diamond in the rough. He saw a talent pool, a beautiful place to attract recruits to and a great fanbase. Coach Spurrier finally proved that to be true.
Florida, like Alabama and FSU should have consistent top 10 teams, unless something is wrong.
Once the turmoil is gone, they always gravitate to the top. Bowden not retiring, and a bad coach followed by one that left the team mentally weak will resolve itself at Florida as long as you have, not a great, but just a good coach.
Florida, like Alabama and FSU should have consistent top 10 teams, unless something is wrong.
Once the turmoil is gone, they always gravitate to the top. Bowden not retiring, and a bad coach followed by one that left the team mentally weak will resolve itself at Florida as long as you have, not a great, but just a good coach.
Yup..You make a great great point about this being on the job training issues with Boom, and watching how things are going in Florida, is the exact reason I'm jumping off the let Kirby Smart replace Coach Saban bandwagon once Coach Saban retires..Alabama & Florida aren't schools that bolds well for an assistant coach to bite his coaching teeth into as a 1st HC'ing gig..
I love Coach Smart, but, pray to the football gods when Coach Saban retires, we go with our proving true method of hiring a seasoned HC, either from college or the NFL, to replace Coach Saban when he retires from Bama..And there's no reason we couldn't hire a HC from the A List when Coach Saban retires, Coach Saban will have the cubbard full of Blue Chip studs, and will have a University that will bend over backwards, to give him everything needed to continue winning NC's..
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