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BamaFan1971

BamaNation Citizen
Sep 24, 2003
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Hazel Green, AL, USA
Mother Boards?

I am looking to build my next pc and I don't want the HIgh end but don't want the extreme low end either.

A friend of mine suggested the ASUS P4S800. He said for the money it was a good board. It will be used for some gaming and internet.

Any suggestions would be great and if anyone has had any experience with the above mentioned board and feedback would be great.

Thanks!

[This message has been edited by BamaFan1971 (edited 02-16-2004).]
 
I assume you are buying a Pentium4 processor. Asus is usually a top-quality board and also comes at a bit of a premium. The P4S800 is based on an Sis chipset, which have really been the performance/price leaders the last couple of years. Sis boards are rock-solid and have garnered great reviews. Make sure that the board you are getting is the correct version (the 655TX chipset from Sis) and supports the Intel "Prescott" processor (the latest from Intel) for future upgrades. If you are not an overclocker then I can also highly recommend motherboards from ECS (Elitegroup), which cost less. I have run my Athlon processor on an ECS board for the last couple years - it is rock solid. BTW, the AMD processors offer a very good performance/price advantage. You can usually get more bang for the buck and the new AMD Athlon64 will carry you sometime into the future when Microsoft releases XP-64bit later this year or early next. At any rate, the P4S800D-E is a great board.

P4S800D-E reviews:

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.html?i=1930

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTU0

Good luck!
 
Thanks for your reply.

Just been doing some research and have read that the P4S800 is actually Asus entry level board at the 800mhz FSB series and the SIS 648 chipset it runs can be shakey at times.

So there must be more stability in the 655 chipset.
 
I do quite a bit of business with directron.com when buying computer building supplies. Presently I am using a gigabyte 7PAXP ultra, MB with Athlon XP 1600 processor, LianLi PC-60 aluminum case with 5 cooling fans and side window, NVidia G-force 4 9800 video card, 1 gig DDR memory and Maxtor 80 gig HD. I use a Vantec Nexus fan controller and temp. sensors. The case has inside lighting and cable management system. I have no problems with it at all. This system has been up and running about 10-11 months. The people at directron can help you with your shopping, just tell them what you want to do with the system.
 
A lot of people tell me that the AMD processors are better than the Intels. I just have probelms comprehending how a processor with 333 FSB can be faster than a processor 800 FSB.

Will you explain why you choose one over the other?

Anyone feel free to answer.

Thanks for any replys.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BamaFan1971:
A lot of people tell me that the AMD processors are better than the Intels. I just have probelms comprehending how a processor with 333 FSB can be faster than a processor 800 FSB.

Will you explain why you choose one over the other?

Anyone feel free to answer.

Thanks for any replys.</font>
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I hope I get this right and don't come off as an idiot
icon10.gif
.

The AMD has not matched Intel clock speed for clock speed, they are doing more work per MHz so don’t let the low clock speed fool you.

In heads up competition both AMD and Intel match up fairly even in performance and features. AMD has the advantage of lower cost. If you overclock, Intel for some reason seems to win. Do not overclock if you don't know what you are doing. I also highly recommend moving as much air as possible inside your case, use filters and find a place for a
directron_1778_3358841
case badge.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BamaFan1971:
A lot of people tell me that the AMD processors are better than the Intels. I just have probelms comprehending how a processor with 333 FSB can be faster than a processor 800 FSB.

Will you explain why you choose one over the other?

Anyone feel free to answer.

Thanks for any replys.</font>
Click to expand...

AS usual, it comes down to the megahertz myth. A short explanation of the FSB goes like this:

The FSB connects the processor to all other aspects of the system; perhaps most important speed-wise is the connection to main memory. Until the intro of the AMD Athlon a few years ago, this bus was connected so that one bit of data was transfered for each clock cycle (or hertz). The Athlon allowed 2 bits of data to be transfered during each clock cycle; so a 100Mhz FSB was still 100Mhz, but was effectively 200Mhz since twice the data throughput was possible (thus the term double-data rate or DDR). So now Athlon chips run on a 200Mhz DDR FSB (effectively 400Mhz). Intel chips now run on a 200Mhz FSB, but the chips run at Quadruple data rate (effectively 800Mhz). This may seem like a big difference, but it provides benefit in only a few specific applications, such as media streaming (making movies, Mp3's) and a few games on the market (Quake is an example).

Also true is that Intel chips run at a faster Mhz than AMD chips, but because it takes more clock cycles than an AMD to complete a task, the performance of the competing chips is similar in most apps. As Bayou said, AMD chips do more work per clock cycle. Think of it this way. Does it really matter to you how many RPM's your car engine makes or how much horsepower/torque it has (work it does)? Very similar concept. Hope that makes it easier (instead of harder) to understand.

Now, to the AMD Athlon64. This chip makes up for the difference in memory speed by having the memory controller chip right on the CPU instead of the motherboard. This reduces latency (time it takes to make a request for something in memory) by a large degree. The Athlon64 chips really have NO FSB. They use a different connection called hypertransport to connect to the rest of the system. These chips beat anything Intel has to offer at a similar price (including the very expensive Xeon chips) in most applications, and even allow AMD to compete on media streaming and those games such as Quake with Intel.

Geesh, let me stop before I confuse you further. Bottom line is, more bang for the buck with AMD, with no compromise in quality, reliability, or stability. Sorry for long post with possibly TMI.
 
I do have to say one more thing:

If you do buy an Athlon, then let someone who has PLENTY of experience with them to mount the CPU heat sink fan on it. Trust me on this one thing. If applied improperly, you can ruin your brand new chip. The Athlon64 does not have this issue.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by NationalTitles12:
I do have to say one more thing:

If you do buy an Athlon, then let someone who has PLENTY of experience with them to mount the CPU heat sink fan on it. Trust me on this one thing. If applied improperly, you can ruin your brand new chip. The Athlon64 does not have this issue.</font>
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Well I am now looking along the lines of a Athlon XP 2500+ / 2600+. So you are saying evn though I might have the capabilities to install the mother board, if I don't have the experience installing heatsink fan on one of these chips. I really need to let someone with more experience install it because it can be that difficult?

Thanks for both of you guys help on this matter.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BamaFan1971:

Well I am now looking along the lines of a Athlon XP 2500+ / 2600+. So you are saying evn though I might have the capabilities to install the mother board, if I don't have the experience installing heatsink fan on one of these chips. I really need to let someone with more experience install it because it can be that difficult?

Thanks for both of you guys help on this matter.

</font>
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I aam absolutely saying to have someone familiar with these chips to install the heatsink fan onto the chip. The problem is that you can chip the cre of the chip, rendering it inoperable. I run a 2400+.
 
Good point. Yes you can damage the CPU chip if you do not mount it properly. Instructions that come with the CPU gives this warning. Also, don't forget the thermal compound.

For cooling the CPU, I use a Zalman Copper CPU Cooler It comes with a 92mm fan. I run my fan at 2000rpm and the CPU temp stays at around 90 deg. F.
 
Just read a 20 something page installation guide from AMD on installing the heat sink. The emphasis on not putting any pressure on the heat sink and that it is centered correctly on the pads over the Die. Seems simple enough.

Also the difference between purchasing a retail box set and unboxed/OEM is that the retail box set comes with heat sink already attached verses just the CPU and having to purchase the heat sink separately.

I do see the retail box set costing more, but also see that it most come with 3yr warranty compared to just a year for most OEM cpu's.

What are your recomendation between the reatil box sets and the OEM CPU's?
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BamaFan1971:
Just read a 20 something page installation guide from AMD on installing the heat sink. The emphasis on not putting any pressure on the heat sink and that it is centered correctly on the pads over the Die. Seems simple enough.

Also the difference between purchasing a retail box set and unboxed/OEM is that the retail box set comes with heat sink already attached verses just the CPU and having to purchase the heat sink separately.

I do see the retail box set costing more, but also see that it most come with 3yr warranty compared to just a year for most OEM cpu's.

What are your recomendation between the reatil box sets and the OEM CPU's?</font>
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Spend the extra $5 on retail, but you still have to mount the HSF on the CPU. As Bayou said, don't forget some good thermal paste or you'll blow the flux capacitor (haha). Really, get good thermal paste, not junk from radio shack. Also, be sure to get the thermal paste ONLY, I repaeat, ONLY on the raised core of the chip. If you get thermal paste on any of the exposed bridges near thte edge of the chip, you'll also blow the chip, since thermal paste is conductive. The paste should ONLY cover the core and be just enough to make an opaque film, not globbed on like mayonaise. And don't forget to plug the CPU fan up before you turn the system on!! Heh. that would hurt. Sorry, I'm paranoid.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by NationalTitles12:
Spend the extra $5 on retail, but you still have to mount the HSF on the CPU. As Bayou said, don't forget some good thermal paste or you'll blow the flux capacitor (haha). Really, get good thermal paste, not junk from radio shack. Also, be sure to get the thermal paste ONLY, I repaeat, ONLY on the raised core of the chip. If you get thermal paste on any of the exposed bridges near thte edge of the chip, you'll also blow the chip, since thermal paste is conductive. The paste should ONLY cover the core and be just enough to make an opaque film, not globbed on like mayonaise. And don't forget to plug the CPU fan up before you turn the system on!! Heh. that would hurt. Sorry, I'm paranoid.</font>
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The installation instructions I read refered to the heat sink as having a phase-change thermally conductive compound strip on the bottom. It says nothing about using any thermal paste.

I take it that if the HSF does not have this strip on it then you need to use the thermal paste?

BTW I got the installation instructions from AMD website.
 
Thermal compound, thermal paste, same animal. There are different grades however. I would feel secure that whatever AMD put on from the factory is satisfactory. If you can get the chip premounted to the board for a close enough price go that route. I would also caution anyone about buying OEM from someone you are not familiar with. My son bought a motherboard off EBAY and it came with no manual to tell him the settings. He had a fit trying to get the board to work. A few well spent bucks will buy you a lot of security.
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by bayoutider:
Hey guys check your email, I sent you some pics of my homemade computer.
icon10.gif
</font>
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Bayou, you can send mine to (mynameonthissite) AT hotmail.com. (too many spiders on the web to just spell it out, sorry)

BF71, you'll get differing opinions on this, but I still recommend a small amount of thermal paste. To answer an earlier question, I've never heard of the mobo manufacturer you asked about either. I can recommend Asus, Gigabyte, ECS, Chaintech, Shuttle, AOpen, and Jetway. Directron.com is good, I hear, as is tigerdirect.com, I hear. Never used either myself, as I prefer to be able to see someone face to face.
 
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