Yes, Oki was bloodier and involved the deaths of civilians, many by their own hand. Both were nasty, but there were almost no civilians on Iwo.
"Iwo Jima ... set a record of human evil."
- Thread starter Tidewater
- Start date
You do realize that Iwo was seized as a divert airfield for bombers flying from Saipan to Japan and back, right?
As I remember, there wasn't really much of a civilian population and what was there was evacuated to Honshu, well before the battle started. It's really just the top of a volcano and tiny...
And we needed that airfield to bomb Japan within easy range...
By war's end, a total of 2,451 B-29s made forced landings on the island. This figut re represented an estimated 26,961 flight crewmen, many of whom would have perished at sea without the availability of Iwo Jima as a safe landing strip. One B-29 pilot said, "Whenever I land on this island I thank God for the men who fought for it."
It also deprived Japan of an airport that would enable attacks on B-29s and shipping that would be required to mount attacks on the home islands.
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rest of her remarks:
Abrar Omeish then stated: “Japanese Remembrance Day reminds us of the evil human beings are capable of, the diverse emotions and complex meanings February 19th has for a variety of members of our community, and the importance of recognizing each of these varied realities in forging a narrative of US, not a narrative of some—as we commit to building better for the next generation and a future that honors all.”
Surely you consider the deaths of so many young men on both sides as "unfortunate" at the least?
I knew she didn't look Japanese!! She is Libyan!
Who is abrar omeish?
Abrar currently serves as a School Board Member At-Large in Fairfax County, overseeing a three-billion-dollar budget for 1.2 million constituents right outside of Washington, DC. She is the first Libyan ever elected in US history and the first Muslim and youngest ever elected in her role, earning over 161,000 county votes. Abrar co-founded an organization providing thousands of underprivileged youth with free tutoring and mentorship in 20 locations over the past ten years.
After serving in several appointed capacities locally and working as a senior organizer at the DNC, Abrar served as a legal fellow at a human rights and immigration law firm in Northern Virginia and has been a spokeswoman for the #NoMuslimBanEver campaign. Abrar was most recently a Virginia Co-Chair for the Bernie Sanders campaign and a Virginia PLEO and Rules Committee member to the Democratic National Convention. She holds a double bachelors with honors from Yale University and is a current dual MPP/JD candidate at Georgetown.
As I recall the decision to retain the the Emperor wasn't made until the effort to reconstruct Japan began with a tremendous amount of discussion between MacArthur's Office in Tokyo and Washington.
None of which changes what she said.rest of her remarks:
Abrar Omeish then stated: “Japanese Remembrance Day reminds us of the evil human beings are capable of, the diverse emotions and complex meanings February 19th has for a variety of members of our community, and the importance of recognizing each of these varied realities in forging a narrative of US, not a narrative of some—as we commit to building better for the next generation and a future that honors all.”
Surely you consider the deaths of so many young men on both sides as "unfortunate" at the least?
I knew she didn't look Japanese!! She is Libyan!
Who is abrar omeish?
Abrar currently serves as a School Board Member At-Large in Fairfax County, overseeing a three-billion-dollar budget for 1.2 million constituents right outside of Washington, DC. She is the first Libyan ever elected in US history and the first Muslim and youngest ever elected in her role, earning over 161,000 county votes. Abrar co-founded an organization providing thousands of underprivileged youth with free tutoring and mentorship in 20 locations over the past ten years.
After serving in several appointed capacities locally and working as a senior organizer at the DNC, Abrar served as a legal fellow at a human rights and immigration law firm in Northern Virginia and has been a spokeswoman for the #NoMuslimBanEver campaign. Abrar was most recently a Virginia Co-Chair for the Bernie Sanders campaign and a Virginia PLEO and Rules Committee member to the Democratic National Convention. She holds a double bachelors with honors from Yale University and is a current dual MPP/JD candidate at Georgetown.
"The days when, you know, Iwo Jima unfortunately happened and set a record for really what – hate to say – human evil is capable of."
That sentence stands alone. In her later clarification, she could have said the "human evil" she was talking about was Japanese militarism, unprovoked invasions of peaceful neighbors, the Rape of Nanking, scientific experiments on captives, etc. and she is thankful for the sacrifices of the brave Marines, her countrymen, who died fighting against that evil.
Instead she chose to accuse others of bias and did not clarify her remarks.
I think she's confused between Okinawa and Iwo Jima...
I'm sticking with stupid. Nothing I've seen thus far in this thread gives me a reason to feel otherwise.
That's not how I read it. I read it as if they were saying that the Japanese fight was worthless because there was no way to win.
That is an interesting take. And you might be right.
Why she added, "hate to say" to the sentence is left unexplained.
If she hated the pointlessness of Japanese resistance on Iwo Jima, why does she "hate to say" that Japanese defense was pointless?
Honestly, I suspect she is just not well informed about the Pacific War and if she was, she would be more circumspect in her pronouncements.
Thanks CA, I thought everybody was saying the school board member said "worthless".
National Championships 18 also used the word "worthless" (and maybe meant "hopeless" since he went on to say that there was no way the Japanese were going to win Iwo Jima).
We now live in a society that casts people out for saying dumb things. Sometimes for saying ambiguous things that could indicate the speaker really is stupid, or said something ambiguous that could be interpreted as stupid.
The school board member said something that could reasonably be taken to mean that the American effort to conquer Iwo Jima "set a record ... what ... human evil is capable of." She added "hate to say," which is a phrase used when some member of a group to which the speaker belongs does something wrong.
She did not say the "hate to say" phrase when speaking of the Japanese interment. She said it in the sentence about the US effort to conquer Iwo Jima. The meaning of that is quite unambiguous. Some member of a group to which she belongs did something at Iwo Jima for which she feels shame or chagrin. I would like to know what act and what group.
It is possible she meant that the Japanese interment was an example of human evil. If so, "hate to say" was in the wrong sentence. She could have explained that war itself set an example what human evil is capable of. Saint Augustine, Saint Thomas Aquinas, and Hugo Grotius took issue with that assertion. It depends what a nation-state is fighting for (jus ad bellum), and how it goes about fighting the war (jus in bello). Perhaps Ms. Omeish is asserting that the United States fought in a bad cause in 1941-45. Perhaps she is arguing that the Marines at Iwo Jima fought in a dishonorable or unethical manner. Either assertion is heinous and ignorant, and, in my view, disqualifying for public office, but, due to the exertions of better men than her, she is free to hold heinous, ignorant positions.
I think she ought to have the courage of her convictions and explain what she meant rather than hiding behind the ambiguity and accusing her critics of simple bias.
We now live in a society that casts people out for saying dumb things. Sometimes for saying ambiguous things that could indicate the speaker really is stupid, or said something ambiguous that could be interpreted as stupid.
The school board member said something that could reasonably be taken to mean that the American effort to conquer Iwo Jima "set a record ... what ... human evil is capable of." She added "hate to say," which is a phrase used when some member of a group to which the speaker belongs does something wrong.
She did not say the "hate to say" phrase when speaking of the Japanese interment. She said it in the sentence about the US effort to conquer Iwo Jima. The meaning of that is quite unambiguous. Some member of a group to which she belongs did something at Iwo Jima for which she feels shame or chagrin. I would like to know what act and what group.
It is possible she meant that the Japanese interment was an example of human evil. If so, "hate to say" was in the wrong sentence. She could have explained that war itself set an example what human evil is capable of. Saint Augustine, Saint Thomas Aquinas, and Hugo Grotius took issue with that assertion. It depends what a nation-state is fighting for (jus ad bellum), and how it goes about fighting the war (jus in bello). Perhaps Ms. Omeish is asserting that the United States fought in a bad cause in 1941-45. Perhaps she is arguing that the Marines at Iwo Jima fought in a dishonorable or unethical manner. Either assertion is heinous and ignorant, and, in my view, disqualifying for public office, but, due to the exertions of better men than her, she is free to hold heinous, ignorant positions.
I think she ought to have the courage of her convictions and explain what she meant rather than hiding behind the ambiguity and accusing her critics of simple bias.
Worthless on the Japanese part only. They sacrificed 99% of the men for a small time delay in the inevitable when they could have and should have surrendered. Don't worry, I'll never call our Marine's sacrifices worthless.
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