Jameis Winston Rape Allegations

Obviously, the guilt of innocence of an accused rapist has to be determined by a jury of his peers.
Some of the factors that would weigh on my decision, if I was a juror would be:
1. Recency. If the victims goes to law enforcement/a hospital immediately after the assault, that would seem to me to indicate sincerity of the accusation. Waiting weeks, months or years lessens the credibility of the assertion that the incident was rape.
2. Harm to the victim's body, especially internally, would seem to me to indicate nonconsensual contact.

Both of these were present in the Winston case. That does not mean Winston is a rapist, but he certainly merited extremely close scrutiny by the authorities.

3. The relationship the victim had with the accused rapist before and after the incident. Not that a husband cannot rape his wife, but if the victim maintains a close personal relationship with the alleged rapist after the rape, that would undermine the victim's accusation of rape. On the other hand, a spurned lover who in turn says, "Oh yeah? Well, I'm going to call the cops and tell that the sex we had last week was rape!" Anyone who has gone through a divorce knows how spiteful former partners can be.
4. Audio or video recorded evidence of the incident (if any). Again, not to be graphic, but a woman yelling, "Yes, yes, yes!" during the act who, the next morning, says it was rape would lack credibility in my eyes. You do not get to turn post facto buyer's remorse into a criminal accusation.

And I agree that incompetence on the part of FSU police, Tallahassee Police and the State's Attorney's Office does not prove anything other than incompetence on the part of FSU police, Tallahassee Police and the State's Attorney's Office. It neither proves nor disproves Winston's guilt or innocence.

The problem with the bold is that in most cases folks just want to go home and "forget" it (I don't mean to sound calloused folks). It's when the PTSD kicks in that it comes out to a friend/counselor a lot of times.

I saw a lot in the military. One particular issue went like this:

Female recruit (not yet active duty) was raped by the recruiter. Didn't say anything. Months later in her same hometown (after she was in the **), she tells a female friend of hers to call her if she needs a ride home or anything. Recruiter rapes the new girl, too. Nothing is said and months go by. One day as she's prepping for her final exam for Air Traffic Control, AFOSI (the ** version of the FBI) pulls her out of class and reads her her rights and asks if she was raped by this recruiter. Basically, girl #2 gave her name to the investigators. She conceded he did and wound up testifying against the guy she'd basically let go. After this she began having all kinds of PTSD symptoms, etc, and you can imagine how dangerous that is for an ATC at a pilot training base. The military - in their infinite wisdom - denied her VA benefits because (are you ready for this?) since the rape occurred BEFORE she actually enlisted, it was classified a "pre-existing condition." She fought for about seven years and finally got a 50% disability check and huge lump sum back pay. (Yes, even though it was THEIR recruiter DURING her recruitment it was "a pre-existing condition." SMH.


Winston may have raped the girl. The one thing I'd say weighs in his favor so far is that it hasn't occurred again (to my knowledge).
He may not have raped the girl.

I think there's a tendency of some CFB fans to think the absolute worst about the other schools and best about their own. (I've been convinced that MOST of the belly aching over Cam had more to do with him winning the national title than anything else; if he got paid on a 5-7 team that Alabama beats, who cares?). So Bama fans can disparage FSU's title as tainted and Auburn's title as tainted and Florida's as tainted because, you know, Urban Meyer ran an insane asylum down there (anyone noticing a pattern here? "We win fairly, they cheat!"). LSU's is tainted because, you know, two losses, and USC's whole dynasty is in question because Reggie Bush and Ohio State 2002 because, you know, Jim Tressel; and Nebraska's dynasty doesn't count because Lawrence Phillips and FSU's Bowden dynasty is overrated because Peter Warrick and Free Shoes U (two diff scandals), and Penn State's wins don't count because Paterno was evil, and Lou Holtz's wins don't count because he got every school where he coached put on probation, and Colorado's doesn't count because Fifth Down, and Miami's 80s dynasty played fast and loose with the NCAA, and on and on and on. (Same fans will say, "But the NCAA overshot us in 1995 and 2002" - you know, the same NCAA involved in most of the other stuff).


My other concern is because of the Duke lacrosse case. I sat and watched the press crucify a bunch of innocent kids, and I also watched Duke U set them down. Now - everyone here KNOWS......and I mean YOU KNOW deep down.....had it been white BASKETBALL players at Duke that the school would NOT have acted the same way. But who gives a rip about lacrosse? It's not a money maker sport. I watched all this "do the right thing and set them down" which was basically declaring them guilty up front. Oh, and then the accuser (Crystal Mangum) goes to prison for second degree murder several years later. (For those who don't know, she TRIED to kill one bf and DID kill a second one. But she was no doubt telling the truth about rape, right?)

I'm hesitant to call him Rapist Winston because there's not enough evidence there.


It would have been better for the NCAA is Winston had been accused of raping Manti Teo's uh girlfriend.
 
A reminder to the guys who post here (don't seem to be many womens on this thread at the moment): there are FAR MORE UNREPORTED rapes than FALSELY REPORTED rapes.
 
Breathtaking post.

I think Winston is like a lot of young people. There is a hook up culture that both men and women partake in. I do not excuse Jamies, but it is a whole cultural scene of ugly behavior. It was a sordid affair at best. Winston probably got away with a deed that is worthy of some punishment.

Yep, and in my personal opinion, it's within this "hook up" culture where a lot of these type cases come out of. "Back in my day" people "hooked up" , no doubt. But it wasn't as normal of a social behavior as it is today. From what I'm told, it is very common for teens and "young people" in general to now simply "hook up" rather than actually get into what I would call a traditional dating relationship. Many of you remember how it worked back in school. Most of the time you "liked" a girl, y'all started "going together" and within that "committed" (I laughed when I typed that) relationship is when the "fooling around" normally happened. I don't think that's how it works anymore.

I think in many of these cases two people consent to "hook up" but they haven't consented on what all the hooking up entails. I'm not saying this is what happened in the Winston case. But it wouldn't surprise me if that's what ultimately happened. The girl had every intention on doing something sexual with Winston. They both consented on the "hooking up". But what they didn't consent on was to what degree. Who knows? I'm glad I'm not a young person in today's culture.
 
A reminder to the guys who post here (don't seem to be many womens on this thread at the moment): there are FAR MORE UNREPORTED rapes than FALSELY REPORTED rapes.
This may be true but I know personally of a couple guys falsely accused of rape. One was cleared because he secretly recorded(only to be charged for making the recording with out her knowledge) the encounter. The other one took place at a club with witnesses. Some cases are in that gray area. Also where it started out consensual and he gets to a point of no return but she says stop but he finishes. That is technically rape. Once a woman says stop even if you are in the throws of passion you must stop immediately. In the media you won't find one person talking about false allegations of rape, it's just not a popular topic not to mention you will get murdered for even thinking a woman could do such a thing. I think about those poor Duke Lacrosse players. When the media thought it was true they blasted those young men and they were found guilty in the court of public opinion. When it was revealed to be false those same outlets barley printed a retraction. There is fear and hesitation to say that any woman can make up a false claim for fear of being shouted down on social media by the self righteous. I am not saying it has not happened but I have never seen where a woman came forward in the last 15 years and she was called a liar by the public.

This is how far things have changed. We had a family get together and a group of my teenage relatives males and females were sitting around talking. My nephew who is 16 said that this girl was really pretty and he was going to ask her out. You would have thought he did something terrible. All the girls started saying why do you have to objectify her, we are more than our bodies and looks, what about her intellect and that mind set is part of the what the me to movement is trying to get rid of. Afterwards I told my nephew I feel sorry for your generation not sure how you guys will ever meet a wife if its harassment to approach a perspective girlfriend.
 
This may be true but I know personally of a couple guys falsely accused of rape. One was cleared because he secretly recorded(only to be charged for making the recording with out her knowledge) the encounter. The other one took place at a club with witnesses. Some cases are in that gray area. Also where it started out consensual and he gets to a point of no return but she says stop but he finishes. That is technically rape. Once a woman says stop even if you are in the throws of passion you must stop immediately. In the media you won't find one person talking about false allegations of rape, it's just not a popular topic not to mention you will get murdered for even thinking a woman could do such a thing. I think about those poor Duke Lacrosse players. When the media thought it was true they blasted those young men and they were found guilty in the court of public opinion. When it was revealed to be false those same outlets barley printed a retraction. There is fear and hesitation to say that any woman can make up a false claim for fear of being shouted down on social media by the self righteous. I am not saying it has not happened but I have never seen where a woman came forward in the last 15 years and she was called a liar by the public.

This is how far things have changed. We had a family get together and a group of my teenage relatives males and females were sitting around talking. My nephew who is 16 said that this girl was really pretty and he was going to ask her out. You would have thought he did something terrible. All the girls started saying why do you have to objectify her, we are more than our bodies and looks, what about her intellect and that mind set is part of the what the me to movement is trying to get rid of. Afterwards I told my nephew I feel sorry for your generation not sure how you guys will ever meet a wife if its harassment to approach a perspective girlfriend.

And in most cases these are the same "girls"/women who want to publicly flaunt their bodies to any degree they want, in hopes people notice. Then complain that they aren't "respected" for their intellect and other non-physical attributes. Maybe if they'd flaunt their intellect and non-physical attributes as much as they did their bodies, they'd get the respect they say they want.

People put on public display what they want you to notice about them. Regardless of what they say with their words.
 
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This may be true but I know personally of a couple guys falsely accused of rape. One was cleared because he secretly recorded(only to be charged for making the recording with out her knowledge) the encounter. The other one took place at a club with witnesses. Some cases are in that gray area. Also where it started out consensual and he gets to a point of no return but she says stop but he finishes. That is technically rape. Once a woman says stop even if you are in the throws of passion you must stop immediately. In the media you won't find one person talking about false allegations of rape, it's just not a popular topic not to mention you will get murdered for even thinking a woman could do such a thing. I think about those poor Duke Lacrosse players. When the media thought it was true they blasted those young men and they were found guilty in the court of public opinion. When it was revealed to be false those same outlets barley printed a retraction. There is fear and hesitation to say that any woman can make up a false claim for fear of being shouted down on social media by the self righteous. I am not saying it has not happened but I have never seen where a woman came forward in the last 15 years and she was called a liar by the public.

This is how far things have changed. We had a family get together and a group of my teenage relatives males and females were sitting around talking. My nephew who is 16 said that this girl was really pretty and he was going to ask her out. You would have thought he did something terrible. All the girls started saying why do you have to objectify her, we are more than our bodies and looks, what about her intellect and that mind set is part of the what the me to movement is trying to get rid of. Afterwards I told my nephew I feel sorry for your generation not sure how you guys will ever meet a wife if its harassment to approach a perspective girlfriend.
Then this couldn't have happened in Alabama. Alabama is a "one party" state. Only one party needs to know that a recording is taking place. Some states are "both parties" states, but not Alabama...
 
IIRC, Florida is a both parties state. That's one reason it's generally not a good idea to record an abusive debt collector. If he's in a both parties state like FL, you're in the clear here but there may be a warrant for you in FL. You're safe here but it sucks, if you really like Disney World... :D
 
IIRC, Florida is a both parties state. That's one reason it's generally not a good idea to record an abusive debt collector. If he's in a both parties state like FL, you're in the clear here but there may be a warrant for you in FL. You're safe here but it sucks, if you really like Disney World... :D
I never thought about recording at Disney World. I guess you could get in trouble for recording other families
 
Having nothing to do with rape, but here's how things have changed as far as video recording.

In 1999, I went to Turner Field and m son was selected Jr Brave of the Game. We had our camera with us. He was up on the board, etc. We were permitted to tape ONLY between innings. They would confiscate it if you did it during the game itself (MLB copyright issues).

In 2016, I went to Turner Field and just happened to be setting next to Tyler Flowers's family. His daughters were there prancing around so cute. I turned my camera on while between innings because they were so cute (I did not know at the time it was his family, I learned that after he came to bat). I went back and looked at the recording later because of what happened next, and I saw it as it was on big view. An usher turned around after hearing something in his ear piece and came bolting up to me. Keep in mind: I'd been told before that I could ONLY tape the crowd and whatever when the pitches were NOT going on. He came up rather boldly and told me I needed to put that away EXCEPT when the game was going on. I asked him for clarification because I was in shock. He told me I could record the GAME but NOT the CROWD between innings.

That's literally a 180 (or a 360 if you're Costanza).

It has all changed due to social media. I apologized to them, and they had no problems with it. Nice family.

The tickets to BDS very specifically say you CANNOT take in a video camera. I've done it to every game I attended there save two. I managed to
get much of the first half of the Fresno game last year, and you can see a lot down in the trenches if you aim right.

Nobody has ever said a word to me.

I'm ASSUMING it's because everyone now has a phone camera and they can't confiscate all 100,000 of those.

And btw - I'm not saying false rape charges NEVER happen, but it's still far rarer than unreported rape.
 
There are a couple of things that I'd say weigh in the accuser's favor (For those still processing blame here)

1) She filed a report the day it happened, first contacting FSU PD and then TPD. And she told friends and family AT THE TIME.

2) She did not identify him by name because she did not know it (and he was NOT really yet famous at the time, either). She did
correctly identify his roommate as Chris, the guy who allegedly videoed part of the sex act and destroyed it.

3) She was not under the influence of alcohol or drugs (.04 BAT)

4) Her SANE exam was consistent with sex but inconclusive for consensual or assault, either being possible

5) There was another girl who had sex with Winston who did not file charges but who acted - weird - and yet she herself said it was not rape.
Maybe the dude is just terrible in the sack.

6) The victim let Winston take her home afterwards on his scooter but insisted he drop her off at an intersection that was not where she lived.

7) She also claims the original fouling up investigator suggested she "think about" the filing, oh, and the cop was an FSU grad fwiw.

8) It was the media and NOT THE GIRL who made it a public story (the Tampa Bay Times).
 
The problem with the bold is that in most cases folks just want to go home and "forget" it (I don't mean to sound calloused folks). It's when the PTSD kicks in that it comes out to a friend/counselor a lot of times.

I saw a lot in the military. One particular issue went like this:

Female recruit (not yet active duty) was raped by the recruiter. Didn't say anything. Months later in her same hometown (after she was in the **), she tells a female friend of hers to call her if she needs a ride home or anything. Recruiter rapes the new girl, too. Nothing is said and months go by. One day as she's prepping for her final exam for Air Traffic Control, AFOSI (the ** version of the FBI) pulls her out of class and reads her her rights and asks if she was raped by this recruiter. Basically, girl #2 gave her name to the investigators. She conceded he did and wound up testifying against the guy she'd basically let go. After this she began having all kinds of PTSD symptoms, etc, and you can imagine how dangerous that is for an ATC at a pilot training base. The military - in their infinite wisdom - denied her VA benefits because (are you ready for this?) since the rape occurred BEFORE she actually enlisted, it was classified a "pre-existing condition." She fought for about seven years and finally got a 50% disability check and huge lump sum back pay. (Yes, even though it was THEIR recruiter DURING her recruitment it was "a pre-existing condition." SMH.

I'm hesitant to call him Rapist Winston because there's not enough evidence there.
Good post.
I would not discount absolutely any accusation tendered weeks or months after the event, just that a delayed accusation is going to be less credible (both in terms of the corroborating evidence available and the possible motivations of the accuser). If I was physically (vice sexually) assaulted and my wallet taken, I'd be darned if I would wait days/weeks/months in rendering a police report. I'd make a police report as soon as possible after the event because that gives me the best chance of the accused being caught and punished.
I've never been sexually assaulted, but my advice to a victim would be report as soon as possible so the perp does not remain free to assault again.
 
That's actually only 1/2 correct.
The bruises didn't prove such.

There was an article in the New York Times that made me think her bruises were more substantial.

But even considering this, I would still never leave Winston in a room alone with a woman.
 
Don’t remember much about the allegations. I do remember that during his suspension vs. Clemson he came out the tunnel in full gear and Jimbo had to send him back in the locker room. All of this was caught on camera. He was constant story the whole game for Herbie & Fowler.

I do remember thinking he was an out of control entitled punk. TPD had no interest in prosecuting him. And the university & DA looked bad in the whole situation. Given the case there was no way they could put him away for rape.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The other thing is that as was being pointed out at the time - he was a potential star QB.

If he'd been a fourth-string O-lineman, he'd have been cut immediately.
 
Oh I’m inclined to think he probably DID do it.

Yep. Same here. Part of the problem with these athletes is the sports culture they are raised in from childhood. The moment it is realized your son can score touchdowns at the blink of an eye, hit a baseball to the moon, or bust the bottom out of a basketball net. They are automatically treated different and as long as they continue being the "star" of the team/league. They continue to get the "above the law" treatment. Elite athletes like Winston get even a greater degree of preferential treatment. This has a great impact on how these athletes view the world. They aren't used to following rules, being told no, not getting what they want, when they want it etc. So when they are told "no" it is foreign to them and an insult. "How dare you tell me no?!" type mindset.
 
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