JPW vs. Brodie Croyle

[crimson_blood]

I kinda like Star Jackson.

In my mind Brodie Croyle did a much better job of handling the offense.

JPW has shown flashes of brilliance at times during his career, but he has also made some decision that make you go, "Huh?" and have cost us ball games.

I pose 2 questions to my fellow tide fans (without trying to make a point; just something to ponder):

How many wins would JPW have had if he was the starting QB on our '92 team given that defense, running game and special teams?

How many wins would Jay Barker had produced if he was the starting QB in 2007 given our defense, running game and special teams?

I know I know...kinda silly...but it really does make a difference who you have around you.

 

[GulfCoastTider]

This comparison lacks the ceteris paribus condition needed for a fair assesment.

Neither one played behind a talented, deep, well coached offensive line, either.

That said, Brodie is the better pure QB while JPW is the better athlete. Both have the ability to put the team on his shoulders and carry it to victory.

If all things were equal and both were surrounded by a highly talented group ** teammates, I think JPW would likely come out on top because of his athleticism and physical strength.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[BamaBuff24]

Maybe I saw a different Brodie. But he did not get us to Atlanta either. I know the OL was questioned, but he could not avoid a sack and sometimes he took a sack. I saw alot over thrown balls. Outside of Florida and a troubled Tennessee... who did he beat. Not Auburn or LSU. Those are the two teams we have to beat to get into Atlanta. And besides the Defense and the special teams won most of the games during Shula's great year.

 

[beardensdaman44]

I dont think Brodie ever got NEAR his full potential as a college QB. Freshman year he was great, splitting time with Tyler Watts. His sophomore season in 2003 he was hurt off and on and played through a shoulder injury if Im correct. He had a 3 game junior year and finally in 2005, we saw what he could of done the year before.

Now look at JPW, his soph. season was pretty decent since it was his first year to start at QB. And then we move to his jr. year....need I say more? So in my mind for JPW to even come CLOSE to BC, he must have a GREAT SR year.

My pick: Brodie

 

[bamaslaw]

One thing to consider between them... Brodie's O-line in 2005 was bad.... but his O-line in 2003 and to a lesser extent 2004 were better than what JPW has had so far, imho...

 

[Alasippi]

Who's the better Tide QB? I know we shouldn't jump the gun win JPW still has another year, but...what the heck. I say Brodie.

Let's rephrase this question. Who was the better Coach...Ears Whitworth or Paul Bryant?

sippi

 

[Big_Fan]

One thing to consider between them... Brodie's O-line in 2005 was bad.... but his O-line in 2003 and to a lesser extent 2004 were better than what JPW has had so far, imho...

Brodie played what... 3 games in 2004?

2003 was a completely screwed up year. THREE head coaches and play books in 5 months.

The OL was better in 03, but the coaching and circumstances following the rope being dropped and Price's Destiny were too difficult. Had Price not been stupid, Brodie would probably have won a Heisman at Alabama.

Mike Price called Brodie the most talented QB he had ever worked with. That is good enough for me to say that he was better than JPW.

Here is another way to look at it. If Brodie was on the roster at Alabama right now, would JPW be the starting QB? I think we all know the answer. I appreciate Wilson's heart and willingness, but he is not very good.

 

[bamanut_aj]

Mike Price called Brodie the most talented QB he had ever worked with. That is good enough for me to say that he was better than JPW.

Was he drunk when he said it? You gotta consider, he also thought Destiny was hot enough to lose his job over. No slam at Brodie....I'm just sayin'..................

 

[GulfCoastTider]

Here is another way to look at it. If Brodie was on the roster at Alabama right now, would JPW be the starting QB? I think we all know the answer. I appreciate Wilson's heart and willingness, but he is not very good.

You're right--if Brodie was still on the roster there's no question that he'd be the starter. However, I think you (and many others here) are selling John Parker Wilson far, far too short.

He is a gifted athlete and talented QB. He has the skills and the ability. What he has lacked is the opportunity to play behind an offensive line capable of protecting him from SEC-caliber defenses. That has led to a confidence deficit, and you just can't have a QB with no confidence and expect great performance. He regressed in 2007 because while we certainly got an upgrade at the HC position, Mike Shula was a better QB coach than Major Applewhite.

Give JPW some talent to work with up front, get him under the tutelage of a good QB coach, and he will win football games. He showed what he's capable of against Arkansas and Tennessee. JPW absolutely shredded Tennessee's defense because the OL protected him and he played with confidence.

The game of football is won and lost in the trenches. Give me a great offensive line and a so-so QB, and I'll kick the snot out of a team with a so-so line and a great QB. Every day and twice on Sundays. The thing about it is, JPW is not a so-so QB. But our offensive line blew chunks in 2007, just like it did in 2006, 2005, 2004 and 2003.

 

[markenk]

Last year's OL was better than what Brodie had to work with in his senior year, by far. The games vs LSU and Auburn in 2006 were just plain ridiculous. I mean, if you can't even lay a hand on a defensive tackle coming right at you, there really isn't a thing a QB can do except tucking the ball in and try not to fumble it. I've never seen the pass protection worse than those times, ever. The main difference between 2006 and 2007 pass protection is that teams had to blitz to put pressure on Wilson while Brodie didn't have the "luxury" to work with blitzing defense (the OL could barely block 3 men rush).

Watching the superbowl reminds me that even a great QB like Brady needs time to set foot in the pocket to be accurate. The thing is that Giants did a very good job of pressuring Brady with 4-5 men rush while doubling Moss. When Giant's DT Justin Tuck came in untouched, Brady went down like Brodie did in Auburn game. There really is nothing a QB can do in that situation. Another thing I noticed was how valuable arm stregnth is in NFL. 3rd and 10 was not an issue for Giants because of Manning's ability to needle the ball into tight spots. Bottom line: Ability to zip the ball > zone defense, period.

 

[T-Town BamaFan]

What a worthless thread. :rolleye2: Flame away. :beatdeadhorse5:




uke:



:BigA:

 

[mlh]

You can slice it and dice it about a million ways from arm strength to talent around them to how injuries and coaching changes affected their performance. All I know is that if I had a chance to pick one or the other to be my starting QB next fall, I'd go with BC without any hesitation.

 

[bamaslaw]

Brodie played what... 3 games in 2004?

2003 was a completely screwed up year. THREE head coaches and play books in 5 months.

The OL was better in 03, but the coaching and circumstances following the rope being dropped and Price's Destiny were too difficult. Had Price not been stupid, Brodie would probably have won a Heisman at Alabama.

Mike Price called Brodie the most talented QB he had ever worked with. That is good enough for me to say that he was better than JPW.

Here is another way to look at it. If Brodie was on the roster at Alabama right now, would JPW be the starting QB? I think we all know the answer. I appreciate Wilson's heart and willingness, but he is not very good.

Those are both valid points, IMO, I'm just saying that he had a better line than what we had in 2005 during other parts of his career. And I'd definitely take Brodie.