Kareem's record goes down...

[TIDE-HSV]

OK, I know it probably belongs on the pro board, but it touches college ball as well. Last night, I just pondered how basketball has changed. There's little resemblance between the game today and the game Kareem played. Kareem was 7'2", 225 and had that high arcing "sky hook" he scored most of his points with. LeBron is 6'9", 250 lb of solid muscle. JMO, but LeBron would not be the leading scorer if he played in Kareem's era because he uses his physicality to a point which wouldn't have been allowed under the rules then enforced. For that matter, Kareem wouldn't have scored as many either, because today's NBA game would have had a physical answer.

Now, how does this relate to college ball? Because I see the physicality bleeding down into NCAA play. I saw it used by LSU against Miller and Sears by LSU. It was definitely the "they can't call them all" approach. There was grabbing, hand-checking (what happened to that NCAA emphasis on clamping down on it?). Rebounding resembled a rugby scrum. I don't watch much NBA now. I wish youngsters had the opportunity to watch basketball when it wasn't played like a wrestling match...

 

[4Q Basket Case]

Tennessee has converted that style to an art form, and ridden it to a Top 3 ranking.

 

[CrimSonami]

I too don't watch much NBA anymore. The fact that LJ broke the record means little to me. He did it with 150 less games than Kareem but you're right in the sense that it's a different game now. LJ literally runs over-through smaller less experienced players then complains about and benefits from contact he creates from those at his level of physicality.

MJ is still the best pure B-Ball player in my lifetime.

 

[Go Bama]

The NBA wrestling match get worse during the playoffs. It's a shame because these guys are unbelievable athletes.

I love to watch the guys that can shoot. When Steph Curry is hot, there's no defense that can contain him.

I don't expect Ja Morant to last long in the NBA because he gets fouled so hard when he drives to the basket.

I wish the college game would return to where it's more about strategy and finesse. I love watching Nate Oats teams. Dread going into Knoxville.

 

[BamaMike05]

Spot on with this post, Earle.

 

[oskie]

...
Now, how does this relate to college ball? Because I see the physicality bleeding down into NCAA play. I saw it used by LSU against Miller and Sears by LSU. It was definitely the "they can't call them all" approach. There was grabbing, hand-checking (what happened to that NCAA emphasis on clamping down on it?). Rebounding resembled a rugby scrum. I don't watch much NBA now. I wish youngsters had the opportunity to watch basketball when it wasn't played like a wrestling match...

I would offer that it reeks of a mosh pit at times

 

[TideEngineer08]

Half of LeBron's points would have been waved off due to double dribbling and traveling had he played during Kareem's era.

I have very little respect for James or his "accomplishment."

 

[tusks_n_raider]

PPG is a better indicator of who was better and more dominant.

Jordan - 30.1 PPG
Wilt - 30.1 PPG

Baylor - 27.4
Durant - 27.3
LeBron - 27.2

Lebron is a great player and I'm not going to act like he isn't...

But..

He couldn't tie Jordan's Nike's

I've detailed how great Jordan was a few times so I won't bore every one again with a super long post.

But MJ was a All-Time Great on Offense and Defense and pretty much unstoppable.

LeBron has reached #1 in Total Points but he's played way more games than Jordan, Wilt, Durant , and Baylor who were more prolific in scoring.

Jordan missed 150+ games in his prime too when he played Baseball.

He was avg 32+ PPG at that time, so that's like 5,000 Points gone right there.

Then his missed 240+ games the 2nd time he retired.

He was avg 28.7 PPG then, so that's like 6,800 Points gone right there.

So basically Jordan left around 10,000-12,000 points by leaving a couple times.

MJ would have at least 4,000 more points than Lebron if he didn't miss all that time or even if he played the same amount of games it took LeBron to reach #1.

It's laughable when today's gen acts like LeBron is better than MJ

They are out of their minds.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

The 3-point shot didn't exist until Kareem was 32 years old, either, which makes a huge difference.

[This is why I simply can't get behind any so-called "greatest of all-time" (now called GOAT, which was a screw-up when I was young but hey, words change meaning)...really anywhere. It's the same with the Bryant vs Saban comparison - the games they coach are overwhelmingly different (single vs double platoon, kicking specialists, different passing rules, NIL, transfer portal), so much so it's a different game entirely].

That's why I've long preferred to call someone "Greatest of HIS Time" rather than ALL Time.

KAJ in the 70s
MJ in the 90s
LBJ in the early 21st century

 

[tusks_n_raider]

[Jordan missed almost 5 full seasons when he was avg over 28 PPG

If I even say Jordan would only avg 20.0 PPG for 393 missed games in his Prime that's 7,860 Points

That would still be 2,000 more total points than LeBron.

Plus I honestly don't think Jordan would drop from 28 PPG to 20 PPG in the time period he missed.

That's not even getting into things like Dominance and Leading the League

Jordan was the #1 Scorer 10 Times

LeBron has done that 1 Times...singular

LeBron is probably a Top 5 Player but I wouldn't even call him #2 and he's galaxies away from the player MJ was.

 

[TexasBama]

The hand check rule was modified around 2004/05. Guys today don't get pushed on near as much as they used to. Then there's the flagrant foul rules that didn't exist in the past. It's a less physical game than it used to be. You might could add 4 or 5 ppg to MJ's average with today's rules.

LeBron is a great player, among the GOAT. But would he even be in your all-time starting 5? Maybe a backup at the 3 spot? I agree his physicality is part of his game.

 

[TexasBama]

I don't watch much NBA now. I wish youngsters had the opportunity to watch basketball when it wasn't played like a wrestling match...

Did you miss the Pistons in the late 80s/early 90s?

 

[CajunCrimson]

The fact that none of his players embraced him after he broke the record said everything.

the ultimate bully. No respect for him at all.
Karl Malone would have abused him repeatedly

 

[Go Bama]

I respect Lebron for taking care of his body and staying in good enough shape to still have a good game. He's seems like a nice enough sort, but I just don't enjoy his style of bball.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Let's keep our attitudes respectful, even when we disagree. OK?

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Did you miss the Pistons in the late 80s/early 90s?

I don't miss them now...

 

[TIDE-HSV]

The fact that none of his players embraced him after he broke the record said everything.

the ultimate bully. No respect for him at all.
Karl Malone would have abused him repeatedly

That's an interesting thought - muscle against muscle...

 

[Padreruf]

I've followed basketball off and on since 1959 -- I still love the Celtic teams with Havlicek, Sam Jones, K.C. Jones, Bob Cousy, Bill Russell and Tommy Heinshohn just to name a few. Lots of different ages, rule changes and styles of basketball.

My pantheon of truly great players include Bill Russell, MJ, Wilt C., Kareem, Kobe, Dr. J... Stephon Curry & LeBron will be added to that list when they retire.

IMHO, the greatest player is the one who won the most championships, i.e., Bill Russell followed by MJ. You play the game to win...winning championships is the ultimate measure.

 

[Bazza]

I haven't watched NBA since Jordan retired.

Can't say I enjoy any pro sports these days, unfortunately.

At age 68, I'm old enough to have enjoyed pro sports before it was ruined.

During my 10 year stint as sales manager of a supply company, at one of the industrial parks we were in, there was a business that made pen holders out of drivers. This is the one they made for me in return for some assistance I gave them with my forklift........

 

[AlistarWills]

I’ll parrot Barkley, queen James has 3 extras seasons as a young player on his stats. Barkley said to add 3 season extra to his career and see where he’d be on the list. Also, look at the All-Stars Kareem played with and shared scoring with.