Mass/Active shooters part 4

[JDCrimson]

Yes, you could even make ammo in different grades sort of like on-road and off-diesel. Make ammo with a time release component that makes it expire. The ammo restrictions/variations are endless...

Yeah that’s a potential option. I would like to see the stats on how limiting pseudoephedrine at pharmacies had on meth sales to see if taking a critical component away is effective.

 

[JDCrimson]

Just send them back to the days when the musket and sword hung over the mantle. The constitutional originalists would squirm over this interpretation...

no. Every pull of the trigger would require manually loading (by whatever mechanism) a new round in the chamber. It’s the ease of spraying bullets rapidly that leads to high death tolls.

 

[81usaf92]

no. Every pull of the trigger would require manually loading (by whatever mechanism) a new round in the chamber. It’s the ease of spraying bullets rapidly that leads to high death tolls.

Okay so here would be the follow up issue that you would have to deal with….Let’s say you make the classification change. How would you enforce it upon the millions of semi automatic pistol owners who many aren’t gun enthusiasts.

 

[NationalTitles18]

Okay so here would be the follow up issue that you would have to deal with….Let’s say you make the classification change. How would you enforce it upon the millions of semi automatic pistol owners who many aren’t gun enthusiasts.

How was it enforced when the law was originally passed/revised?

But as 4Q is fond of saying: how would you implement it?

Or what's your better idea?

Because nothing is going to be perfect.

But doing nothing isn't even good.

 

[4Q Basket Case]

FTR, I’m not looking for a perfect solution. I don’t think that exists. I am, however, always looking for a better idea.

I’ve proposed that existing Class 3 protocols be extended to all guns. NT18 says he’s proposed similar.

I’m looking for either (1) a better idea, or (2) coalescence around the proposal.

We seem to be in general agreement on large magazines, and I think that’s a start. In the spirit of not letting perfect be the enemy of better, do that and move on to the next step — meaningful background checks.

 

[AWRTR]

no. Every pull of the trigger would require manually loading (by whatever mechanism) a new round in the chamber. It’s the ease of spraying bullets rapidly that leads to high death tolls.

So this would include revolvers, lever actions, pumps, and double barrels?

 

[NationalTitles18]

I’ve proposed that existing Class 3 protocols be extended to all guns. NT18 says he’s proposed similar.

My proposal was to place all semiauto guns in this category, so very similar.

In the spirit of not letting perfect be the enemy of better,

This always seems to be one of the snags.

move on to the next step — meaningful background checks

Universal background checks for ALL transfers is needed.

And we need effective "red flag laws".

If someone is mentally unstable they do not need to have a gun. If they have made threats they do not need to have a gun.

If we can hold people against their will for suicidal/homicidal ideation - temporarily without a court order but with a hearing required in a speedy time frame (usually 48 hours) - then we can do something similar for guns.

 

[NationalTitles18]

So this would include revolvers, lever actions, pumps, and double barrels?

If those only require pulling the trigger to fire another round then the answer is a resounding yes. If those require manual input aside from pulling the trigger to load and/or fire the next round then the answer is no.

For instance: A revolver that requires you to spin the next round into place OR that requires you to **** prior to firing would not be included.

Also: A pump action that requires you to "pump" the next round into place prior to pulling the trigger to fire the next round would also not be included.

The double barrel might be a little trickier and my answer would be that it might depend on the specifics.

It is my understanding with lever actions that you still have to load each individual round manually, unless I am misunderstanding you.

 

[BamaFlum]

One solution I would like to see is government agencies talking to each other more efficiently. We’ve seen too many instances of people with mental issues having access to firearms. During a background check, a person’s mental history, like being dismissed from the military or law enforcement due to mental illness, should be a part of the process. There have been some mass shooters who went thru background checks that fell thru the cracks because some agency bureaucracy.

This one small change would help tremendously and placate both sides.

 

[TexasBama]

If those only require pulling the trigger to fire another round then the answer is a resounding yes. If those require manual input aside from pulling the trigger to load and/or fire the next round then the answer is no.

For instance: A revolver that requires you to spin the next round into place OR that requires you to **** prior to firing would not be included.

Also: A pump action that requires you to "pump" the next round into place prior to pulling the trigger to fire the next round would also not be included.

The double barrel might be a little trickier and my answer would be that it might depend on the specifics.

It is my understanding with lever actions that you still have to load each individual round manually, unless I am misunderstanding you.

Double barrel shotguns are what pretty much everybody uses for bird hunting. If you have a semiauto shotgun like mine you’re required to have a plug in the magazine to limit the number of shells you can load.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

*But why do they specifically blame mental illness and then vote down measures to address mental illness?

If they were serious about that being the issue wouldn't they want to do something about it?

**And why isn't their base of support who believes that is the only problem here holding their feet to the fire to get something done?

**I'm also interested in understanding why that isn't happening.

**I mean, I think I already know why; but I'd like to hear from the horse's mouth so to speak.

*You've already asked me this question (in a slightly different form) and I've given my opinion as to possible reasons. My answers are still the same. I'm not "them" so my answers are just an opinion without intimate knowledge inside their meetings or their minds.



** I'm not sure who you're referring to as "the horse", the politicians, their supporters, or both?

 

[NationalTitles18]

*You've already asked me this question (in a slightly different form) and I've given my opinion as to possible reasons. My answers are still the same. I'm not "them" so my answers are just an opinion without intimate knowledge inside their meetings or their minds.
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** I'm not sure who you're referring to as "the horse", the politicians, their supporters, or both?

Both, of course.

But we know getting a real answer isn't going to happen because they hold a defenseless position of saying one thing and doing the complete opposite.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Both, of course.

But we know getting a real answer isn't going to happen because they hold a defenseless position of saying one thing and doing the complete opposite.

When in doubt I normally follow human nature and what has influenced "man" since the beginning of time (Power, Money, and Sex), and once they are attained the next goal is "more". In this scenario, I would lean toward power and money, but not dismissing some "room service" here and there.

WRT to their supporters, in my personal opinion, there isn't a one-way street answer as to why those who support the politicians lack of interest when it comes to gun control and even mental illness. But regardless of how they got there, the problem is they have ended up there which is a major problem. Those who think more action needs to be taken with gun control and mental illness may not all agree on WHY we need more gun control measures and mental illness measures, but we agree there needs to be action taken.

 

[AWRTR]

If those only require pulling the trigger to fire another round then the answer is a resounding yes. If those require manual input aside from pulling the trigger to load and/or fire the next round then the answer is no.

For instance: A revolver that requires you to spin the next round into place OR that requires you to **** prior to firing would not be included.

Also: A pump action that requires you to "pump" the next round into place prior to pulling the trigger to fire the next round would also not be included.

The double barrel might be a little trickier and my answer would be that it might depend on the specifics.

It is my understanding with lever actions that you still have to load each individual round manually, unless I am misunderstanding you.

So then no revolvers because the cylinder rotates as you pull the trigger. What you described doesn’t exist.

lever action and pump long guns have to have the action manually cycled to put in the next round from a tube magazine located beneath the barrel in most cases. I have both and can fire them very quickly. To be honest I can fire my pump almost as fast as my semi auto shotgun.

the idea of outlawing double barrel shotguns is ludicrous. Your idea is the reason the gun lobby screams they’re gonna take our guns. I wouldn’t support any of that and you would have to come try and take them.

 

[92tide]

the gish has begun to gallop

 

[NationalTitles18]

So then no revolvers because the cylinder rotates as you pull the trigger. What you described doesn’t exist.

lever action and pump long guns have to have the action manually cycled to put in the next round from a tube magazine located beneath the barrel in most cases. I have both and can fire them very quickly. To be honest I can fire my pump almost as fast as my semi auto shotgun.

the idea of outlawing double barrel shotguns is ludicrous. Your idea is the reason the gun lobby screams they’re gonna take our guns. I wouldn’t support any of that and you would have to come try and take them.

I’D ask if you always just make ish up but I already know the answer.

So you are telling me that no revolver exists that requires pulling back the hammer to fire a second round?

I’m calling garbage.

and as for double barrels I said it depends on the details, a rather noncommittal answer for you to describe it as the gun confiscation apocalypse predicted by our forefathers (from 50 years ago).

This is why we can have meaningful and productive conversations - you imagined something I supposedly said and this happens all the time.

 

[TexasBama]

no. Every pull of the trigger would require manually loading (by whatever mechanism) a new round in the chamber. It’s the ease of spraying bullets rapidly that leads to high death tolls.

A single action revolver requires you to pull the hammer every time you shoot to rotate the cylinder. A Ruger Redhawk is one example.
A double action revolver pulls the hammer back and rotates the cylinder at the same time when you pull the trigger.

ETA. I figured out what **** is

 

[Bodhisattva]

I'm happy to dive deep into the AR platform and what the common .223 / 5.56 (7.62 is a .30 cal cartridge) round does and doesn't do if it helps.

But the reality is a vast majority (98%) of firearm-related homicides in the US are from handguns - 'only' roughly 400 of the more than 20,000 annual homicides involve rifles.

The obsession with ARs is obviously due to news coverage and not facts - if one had the ability to snap their fingers and magically all ARs would disappear the number of people killed by firearms would hardly change. But when it's kids getting mass-murdered it has an effect on people, which I fully understand - I've shed many tears over the horrific way so many kids have died.

But when one makes these points and suggests we look deeper to try to solve the problem, we're treated as if we're the ignorant ones, that if we can just get rid of those evil black rifles we'll have accomplished something significant...

FWIW, when my wife was finishing up her CRNA education and started doing her semester-long clinical rotations, one of the opportunities was at Johns Hopkins doing trauma cases. Inner cities being inner cities and Baltimore being Baltimore, the trauma involved almost entirely gun shot victims (with some stabbings and car wrecks). The weapons used were handguns. I'm not aware of any of Lan's classmates encountering cases with wounds caused by rifles (and I frequently asked).

 

[AWRTR]

I’D ask if you always just make ish up but I already know the answer.

So you are telling me that no revolver exists that requires pulling back the hammer to fire a second round?

I’m calling garbage.

and as for double barrels I said it depends on the details, a rather noncommittal answer for you to describe it as the gun confiscation apocalypse predicted by our forefathers (from 50 years ago).

This is why we can have meaningful and productive conversations - you imagined something I supposedly said and this happens all the time.

Yes there are single action revolvers. The Colt Single Action Army being an example. A popular one today is the Ruger Blackhawk. No double barrel made has the features you describe. It seems to me you have very little knowledge of actual firearms. I could be wrong about this, but your knowledge comes across as lacking from your description of things.

I'm good with universal background checks, red flag laws, higher licensing requirements. Limiting high capacity magazines is on the table for me. I'm good with all that, but you jumped the shark. I didn't imagine what you said. You put the parameters in place that a double-action revolver is too much. You don't want guns that cowboys in the 1880's would have carried.

 

[AWRTR]

A single action revolver requires you to pull the hammer every time you shoot to rotate the cylinder. A Ruger Redhawk is one example.
A double action revolver pulls the hammer back and rotates the cylinder at the same time.

ETA. I figured out what **** is

It's the Blackhawk that's single action. The redhawk is double action.