Middle East tensions are mounting.....also to include latest Gaza news.....

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75thru79

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So you don't believe there is starvation in Gaza?
I believe there is probably some but not at the scale being reported by Hamas. Why does Hama feel the need to display photos of children that are suffering from multiple afflictions and then try to pass it off as starvation? Do they not understand this torpedoes their "victim" cred?
 

Bazza

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Hamas has accepted a new cease-fire proposal for Gaza put forward by Qatar and Egypt that would see the release of Israeli hostages and Palestinian prisoners, two diplomats familiar with the negotiations and an Egyptian official said on Monday.

It was unclear whether Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel would accept the proposal, which came as Qatar and Egypt were intensifying their mediation efforts ahead of a possible Israeli ground invasion into Gaza City.

The plan would also require Israel to redeploy its forces in Gaza, and it would allow enough humanitarian aid to enter the territory to meet the needs of Palestinians, two of the officials said.

More here:

 
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81usaf92

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I believe there is probably some but not at the scale being reported by Hamas. Why does Hama feel the need to display photos of children that are suffering from multiple afflictions and then try to pass it off as starvation? Do they not understand this torpedoes their "victim" cred?
It’s not just Hamas saying it. It’s independent sources and is the primary reason that Netanyahu is now officially facing charges of war crimes. You don’t just get those for isolated issues of negligence.
 
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Tidewater

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Here is a WSJ report from Gaza on the hunger.
The journalist reports what the two sides said. The Israelis say aid is rotting outdoors at the crossing site waiting for the UN to pick up and deliver the aid. The UN for its part says (1:31 mark) the Israelis "are creating obstacles that are making it impossible for them to do their jobs. These include restrictions on movement, security concerns for humanitarian workers, and long wait times at border crossings."
Having an ounce of curiosity, my thought was to get one of the UN workers (and many of those are Palestinians who live inside Gaza and thus are vulnerable to Hamas intimidation and execution if they fail to follow Hamas' guidance), and say, "Show me. Let's try to deliver humanitarian aid and see what the Israeli authorities are actually doing."
This would be much more illuminating than merely reporting the talking points of the two sides.

What restrictions are placed on movement? Does that mean humanitarian aid cannot be delivered ti Hamas? If so, that is understandable.
How exactly do "security concerns" prevent UN workers from delivering humanitarian aid? If the Israelis tell UN workers, "don't go into this area. It is Indian country, and if we see Hamas fighters grabbing humanitarian aid, we will engage the Hamas fighters, and you might be caught in the crossfire." Yet another reason why the law of armed conflict call for combatants to weara uniforms that make them readily recognizable as combatants. War is ugly, but when combatants pose as civilians and hide themselves and targetable activities inside place that would otherwise be protected by LOAC, it gets even uglier because civilians will get hurt, often by accident.
Exactly how long is the wait time to get into Gaza to deliver humanitarian aid? I would like to have seen where exactly the waits were and what caused them.
Instead, we simply get the repeating of talking points, which does not illuminate much.
 
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Bazza

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Here is a WSJ report from Gaza on the hunger.
The journalist reports what the two sides said. The Israelis say aid is rotting outdoors at the crossing site waiting for the UN to pick up and deliver the aid. The UN for its part says (1:31 mark) the Israelis "are creating obstacles that are making it impossible for them to do their jobs. These include restrictions on movement, security concerns for humanitarian workers, and long wait times at border crossings."
Having an ounce of curiosity, my thought was to get one of the UN workers (and many of those are Palestinians who live inside Gaza and thus are vulnerable to Hamas intimidation and execution if they fail to follow Hamas' guidance), and say, "Show me. Let's try to deliver humanitarian aid and see what the Israeli authorities are actually doing."
This would be much more illuminating than merely reporting the talking points of the two sides.

What restrictions are placed on movement? Does that mean humanitarian aid cannot be delivered ti Hamas? If so, that is understandable.
How exactly do "security concerns" prevent UN workers from delivering humanitarian aid? If the Israelis tell UN workers, "don't go into this area. It is Indian country, and if we see Hamas fighters grabbing humanitarian aid, we will engage the Hamas fighters, and you might be caught in the crossfire." Yet another reason why the law of armed conflict call for combatants to weara uniforms that make them readily recognizable as combatants. War is ugly, but when combatants pose as civilians and hide themselves and targetable activities inside place that would otherwise be protected by LOAC, it gets even uglier because civilians will get hurt, often by accident.
Exactly how long is the wait time to get into Gaza to deliver humanitarian aid? I would like to have seen where exactly the waits were and what caused them.
Instead, we simply get the repeating of talking points, which does not illuminate much.
Thank you for posting this video/report, TW.

Amazing how much food had been delivered by the IDF, but was not distributed by the UN.
 

Tidewater

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Thank you for posting this video/report, TW.

Amazing how much food had been delivered by the IDF, but was not distributed by the UN.
I worked for the UN in Israel, Syria, and Egypt. There were three sources of UN manpower (it is the same around the world): international military manpower, international civilian manpower, and locally-hired manpower. In UNTSO, the biggest category by far was locally hired civilians.
In UNRWA, that means folks working for the UN in Gaza live in Gaza and are susceptible to the same intimidation tactics as other people living in Gaza. In fact, I can almost guarantee you that a number of the UNRWA locally-hired civilians are themselves Gaza fighters placed in UNRWA by Hamas so that they could take advantage of knowledge given the UN to kill Jews and aid Hamas. Those same people (those that have survived this far) are the ones saying to the media, "If we do not take food into areas where Hamas can immediately steal it, then we will not feed anyone else in Gaza, and we'll blame the Jews for all the suffering." That is why Hamas shot Palestionians taking food directly from the Israeli authorities. When Hamas steals food from Palestinians families hands, it makes Hamas look bad. When Hamas steal it from UN hands before it gets into the hands of Palestinians, Hamas are heroes.
 

jthomas666

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I believe there is probably some but not at the scale being reported by Hamas. Why does Hama feel the need to display photos of children that are suffering from multiple afflictions and then try to pass it off as starvation? Do they not understand this torpedoes their "victim" cred?
You do understand that the conditions that lead to starvation frequently lead to other afflictions? It's not like they're going to central casting and asking for "victims".
 

75thru79

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You do understand that the conditions that lead to starvation frequently lead to other afflictions? It's not like they're going to central casting and asking for "victims".
You do understand that Hamas and their sympathizers have absolutely no qualms about lying and deceiving:

 

jthomas666

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You do understand that Hamas and their sympathizers have absolutely no qualms about lying and deceiving:

Sure, but given the degree to which Gaza has been bombed over the last 7 months or so, along with the lack of consistent aid, widespread malnutrition seems a likely result. Or is Hamas lying about the bombing as well?
 

Tidewater

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This is probably from Afghanistan a decade ago, but I thought I would share this "moment of zen" with the board.
Note the concern of the American aviators for the kids. They do not want to strike while a kid is nearby. You can hear the aviators saying, "C'mon, kid, get out of there."
If only the parents shared that level of concern for their kids.
 
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81usaf92

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Sure, but given the degree to which Gaza has been bombed over the last 7 months or so, along with the lack of consistent aid, widespread malnutrition seems a likely result. Or is Hamas lying about the bombing as well?
You know here is the thing… we have heard for decades of how elite Mossad is and how they can do practically anything. But answer me this… “if true, then why is there still a hostage crisis in Gaza?”. Is their reputation more of a myth based on isolated international successes or is the puppet master in Israel holding them back for political gain. I lean more towards the latter because of everything Netanyahu has done before and since this war has started.
 

Tidewater

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That seems to be conspiracy thinking.
I'm more inclined to believe that Hamas has been really effective at weeding out informants in Gaza.
I do not believe for a moment that the Israelis knew about October 7 (in terms of date and scale) before it happened. If they did, why not just ambush Hamas as they infil'ed? They could have saved a bunch of Israeli lives and killed terrorists before they got to their targets. That would have made Bibi look like a hero to everybody in Israel.
What do October 7th planning and the retention of the hostages have in common? They both took place inside Gaza. Maybe Hamas is having a hard time penetrating Hamas circles inside Gaza or Hamas is really effective at catching informants/agents.

Then again, FDR knew about the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor before it happened but let it happen anyway.
 
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crimsonaudio

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