Question: Miles vs. Saban: Bringing the gavel down

[TommyMac]

To correctly answer the question, don't you have to consider who hung the "jerk" label on Coach Saban and why? It's the media and they deem Coach Saban as being a jerk because he doesn't pander to them and their idiotic, same old, same old questions. And why doesn't he? Because he's building a football program and knows his time will be better spent doing other things than continually massaging the egos of real jerks who are only looking for their next free buffet.

Tubby was/is a jerk, but he got a pass from the media because he always made plenty of time for them and patiently answered their DA questions. I like Coach Saban's style better, a LOT better. :BigA:

 

[Ole Man Dan]

When did CNS become a jerk? Was it when he refused to allow the press and a few fans to 'Call the shots' and run 'HIS' program???
If that is the definition of a jerk, CNS is keeping company with Coach Bryant for sure... I don't consider giving money to BAMA to help students, qualifies CNS as a jerk.
Please don't borrow terms from some 'looser' who wants to bad-mouth our coaches and University. I know the term was tossed about freely by some LSWHO posters when CNS returned to college football. They were hurt that he returned and was now at a rival University... They saw the handwriting on the wall and knew the SEC West was fixing to get very interesting. (LSWHO has a good coach, but the fans know he does not fare well when compared to CNS)
Is it not interesting that we saw 'The Process' at work this last year?
Face it folks... CNS is in the business of inflicting his will on others... It's only natural that some will resent being told what to do, how to do it, and will hate having things explained over and over. Thats TEACHING...

 

[chris]

I'm going to stay out of this, it'll all play out.

you're a wise man!

 

[crmsnrevelation]

Less win a nice guy contest = maybe if Hitler was the only competition.

yay for post of the week!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[crains]

:BigA:The fact is Saban built LSU into a powerhouse before miles every arrived! How well did Miles do before he came to LSU? I think Miles bore the fruits of his own labor last year! He arguably had more talent but was beat on his home field last year by Nick! If anyone wants to compare they need to compare what he done befor he inherited Nicks team! I sure anyone who came in now would have a lot better advantage inheriting Sabans talent compared to Mike Shula!:BigA: Who is the best coach show be a no brainer!!!!:BigA:

 

[moebert]

:BigA:The fact is Saban built LSU into a powerhouse before miles every arrived!

and Miles has sustained, if not bettered, that. The man won 11 games three years straight. Saban didn't come close to that in a three year stretch.

How well did Miles do before he came to LSU?

About as well, if not better, as Saban did before arriving to LSU.

I think Miles bore the fruits of his own labor last year! He arguably had more talent but was beat on his home field last year by Nick!

Again, i challenge any team to be successful after losing their starting QB right before the season. I don't care how much talent you have.

If anyone wants to compare they need to compare what he done befor he inherited Nicks team!:BigA:

All this talk about him inheriting Nick's talent as the reason to his success is a wash cause Miles is racking in just as much talent.

 

[moebert]

Where do I start ? Those are not points you're making , those are excuses and I belive you're doing so by reading my post about as far out of context as possible . Please re-read what I wrote and read it just as it was written because we are definately not reading from the same book .

I care about my own opinion , not the opinion of the media , which happens to be one that seems rather universally shared among those who should know - coaches and former players . Sort of like the coaches who were interviewed in the artical which spawned this thread .

If you can't see the differences in Saban & Miles , I don't think I can help you .

That's fine, we differ in our opinions. Just name me one solid reason Saban is the clear cut leader between the two. Just one.

 

[deltatider]

That's fine, we differ in our opinions. Just name me one solid reason Saban is the clear cut leader between the two. Just one.

Do you think that Miles could have done the same thing at Alabama that Saban has in 2 years? In my opinion I would say no. It is, however, difficult to compare the two. Both guys have been with programs that were at different stages. Both LSU and Bama were in pretty bad shape when Saban took over. The same can't be said for LSU when Miles took over. Has Miles ever taken a program from the bottom to national prominence??? No, he has sustained a program that was already very prominent on the national scene. LSU was already a "sexy" program for recruits when Miles took over, that is a fact. I'm not saying there is a clear cut leader, but can you honestly tell me that Miles' resume is anywhere near as impressive as Saban's????? I seriously doubt it!!!!!!!!:BigA:

 

[LSU63]

Are y'all trying to bait a Tigerfan into another Miles/Saban throwdown so the thread can be locked and a Tiger can get banned?? :biggrin:

 

[LSU63]

:BigA:

The fact is Saban built LSU into a powerhouse before miles every arrived!

True. Doesn't mean he can't coach, though.

How well did Miles do before he came to LSU?

Pretty good. Just as good as Nick did at Mich. St. He took over a pathetic Okie St. Funny I never hear that Gundy is winning with Miles talent.

I think Miles bore the fruits of his own labor last year!

8-5 is disapointing, major mistake with the DCs examine the games though:

Fla-Flat out got beat by a better team

Ga.- More off. yards, and time of poss. Difference in this game was the 17 points off of QB interceptions,

Bama- Lost in overtime when QB threw int. As for the notion Bama had less talent, give me a break, LSU was deeper, but Bama had talent, an experienced QB and exceeding good fortune on injuries this year. I really think that was the difference in y'alls bowl game, key injuries that y'all don't have the depth quite yet to overcome.

Ark- on the coaches no excuses

Ole Miss-a loss to a good team.

He arguably had more talent but was beat on his home field last year by Nick!

That's just bull. Nick has to have talent to win, just like everyone else. I know I said I was going to stay out of this one, but I couldn't help myself. :cool2:

I fully expect us to be hugely improved next year, don't fool yourselves into thinking that last year is the begining of the end of LSU football, or our slide into mediocraty.
I think over the next few years, It will be Bama-LSU in the west.

Why the constant need to convince yourselves that Miles is inferior? If some LSU fans sound like jilted lovers, some Bama fans sound like 2nd' wives, always trying to convice themselves that their better than their hubby's first love (Dr. Phil, here I come!)

Can't y'all just be happy that you have a great coach and a program on the rise.

 

[jangalang]

All this talk about him inheriting Nick's talent as the reason to his success is a wash cause Miles is racking in just as much talent.

The question is would CLM have been able to recruit this kind of talent to LSU if CNS hadn't had the success he had in previous years?? When your team wins, people want to play for that team.

 

[LSU63]

The question is would CLM have been able to recruit this kind of talent to LSU if CNS hadn't had the success he had in previous years?? When your team wins, people want to play for that team.

Doesn't matter to me, and we'll never know. What matters is can he keep it going?

 

[moebert]

The question is would CLM have been able to recruit this kind of talent to LSU if CNS hadn't had the success he had in previous years?? When your team wins, people want to play for that team.

We'll never know, but before Miles arrived at LSU, one of his strong points was being able to recruit. He lifted OSU from the bottom to competitive due to being able to recruit to a school that formerly couldn't haul top talent.

Personally, I vote for this thread to be locked cause it's only gonna end up in us going around in circles. It will all play itself out down the road.

 

[deltatider]

The question is would CLM have been able to recruit this kind of talent to LSU if CNS hadn't had the success he had in previous years?? When your team wins, people want to play for that team.

That's a point I was trying to make. For ex. if Pete Carroll left USC today, whoever takes his place will still already have his foot in the door for recruits based solely on the groundwork laid by Pete Carroll.

 

[red55]

It's rare that numbers are able to paint an entire picture .

The clear cut leader is the coach who just went 12-2 with about half the talent to work with as the other coach who managed to post an 8-5 mark .

How about a coach that went 11-2 despite having his first three games moved because of the hurricanes and having his campus turned into a madhouse for a month. And then being the first rookie SEC coach to take a team to the SECCG. We found out what kind of a leader Les was in year one.

Who is "best" is always subject to speculation and is entirely subjective, especially those who talk about the "buffoon factor" or who is the biggest "jerk". What can be objective is the record. Nick was a fine coach at LSU and looks like he'll also be one at Bama. Les has been a fine coach at LSU too.

To be objective, Les is starting his 5th year at LSU:

last 5-years recruiting:

• Les averaged 3.78 stars per player (counting current commits)
• Nick averaged 3.58 stars per player (counting current commits, and his last two classes at LSU)

last 4-years record:

• Les = 42-11 (.792) 1 SEC and 1 BCS title
• Nick = 41-11 (.788) (counting last two at LSU) 1 SEC and 1 BCS title (both at LSU)

It's a wash. Two fine coaches with different styles. One is a cool, focused individual but kind of a jerk dealing with people. One is a warm, inclusive individual but kind of goofy in front of a camera. Both of them can write their own ticket in this business.

 

[bayoutider]

and Miles has sustained, if not bettered, that. The man won 11 games three years straight. Saban didn't come close to that in a three year stretch.


About as well, if not better, as Saban did before arriving to LSU.

Les Miles record at OSU was 24-21 over 4 years. He inherited a program that was not doing well but Bob Simmons did beat Oklahoma in Norman once. Les beat Oklahoma in Norman his first year (I call that one luck) but did beat them (OU) again the following year. OU Mudholed OSU in year 3, 52-9 in Norman (sounds like the Florida score ) and beat Les again in Stillwater in Les's 4th year at OSU. I think Les got a lot of hype over those two wins over OU.

Nick Saban's record at Michigan St. is 35-23-1 over 5 years. Nick inherited a team on NCAA probation from George Perlis. Nick had scholarship losses to deal with as he built a team that went 10-2 in 1999. Nick got a lot of props due to the fact his team was the first in decades to beat Penn. St. Ohio St., Michigan and Notre Dame all in the same year.

Les Miles best season was 9-4.
Nick's best season was 9-3, Bobby Williams coached the Citrus Bowl win over Florida. (The bowl victory gave MSU a 10-3 record for the season) I think those numbers are better than Les Miles.

Again, i challenge any team to be successful after losing their starting QB right before the season. I don't care how much talent you have.

There was no guarantee Ryan Perriloux was going to be All SEC his first year as a starter but he should have been better than what LSU put on the field. Coaching should have had at least one guy ready call that coaching or recruiting mistakes but LSU definately didn't have anyone ready for that level of play.

All this talk about him inheriting Nick's talent as the reason to his success is a wash cause Miles is racking in just as much talent.

It's not a wash. If Nick had left the cupboard bare do you think Les would have been successful from the start? That's crazy thinking.

 

[First Sergeant]

:BigA:

True. Doesn't mean he can't coach, though.



Pretty good. Just as good as Nick did at Mich. St. He took over a pathetic Okie St. Funny I never hear that Gundy is winning with Miles talent.



8-5 is disapointing, major mistake with the DCs examine the games though:

Fla-Flat out got beat by a better team

Ga.- More off. yards, and time of poss. Difference in this game was the 17 points off of QB interceptions,

Bama- Lost in overtime when QB threw int. As for the notion Bama had less talent, give me a break, LSU was deeper, but Bama had talent, an experienced QB and exceeding good fortune on injuries this year. I really think that was the difference in y'alls bowl game, key injuries that y'all don't have the depth quite yet to overcome.

Ark- on the coaches no excuses

Ole Miss-a loss to a good team.



That's just bull. Nick has to have talent to win, just like everyone else. I know I said I was going to stay out of this one, but I couldn't help myself. :cool2:

I fully expect us to be hugely improved next year, don't fool yourselves into thinking that last year is the begining of the end of LSU football, or our slide into mediocraty.
I think over the next few years, It will be Bama-LSU in the west.

Why the constant need to convince yourselves that Miles is inferior? If some LSU fans sound like jilted lovers, some Bama fans sound like 2nd' wives, always trying to convice themselves that their better than their hubby's first love (Dr. Phil, here I come!)

Can't y'all just be happy that you have a great coach and a program on the rise.

I personally am very happy with CNS. I agree with most of your post. Any Alabama fan that thinks LSU is falling out of contention as a top tier program has no sense or is plain out fooling themselves. Both coaches do a good job for thier respective program. I don't think we would even be having this discussion is CNS had not coached a LSU previously. Its fun to speculate though. I have to say though, CNS took over programs at LSU and Alabama that was in little be more turmoil than the Hatter took over at OK ST imo which in my eyes fogs the earlier numbers presented(pending if those numbers included their entire coaching career)

 

[TommyMac]

and Miles has sustained, if not bettered, that. The man won 11 games three years straight. Saban didn't come close to that in a three year stretch.


About as well, if not better, as Saban did before arriving to LSU.




Again, i challenge and team to be successful after losing their starting QB right before the season. I don't care how much talent you have.


All this talk about him inheriting Nick's talent as the reason to his success is a wash cause Miles is racking in just as much talent.

Try Wake Forest in 2006. They lost not only their starting QB, but also their best RB and WR. Still went 11-3 and won the ACC for the first time EVER. And you can be sure that they didn't have NEARLY the talent that LSU had last year. Actually, I think they might have lost their 2nd string QB too, or it might have been the 2nd string RB.

 

[red55]

It's not a wash. If Nick had left the cupboard bare do you think Les would have been successful from the start? That's crazy thinking.

It's crasy thinking that talent alone wins games. If true, then USC and Texas would win every year. Why didn't Ron Zook win with the talent Spurrier left behind? Why didn't Dubose win with the fine talent that Stallings left behind? Five years down the road, it's obvious to all but the most biased observers that Nick is not the coach responsible for LSU's recent success.

 

[red55]

It's not a wash. If Nick had left the cupboard bare do you think Les would have been successful from the start? That's crazy thinking.

Well, it's crazy thinking that talent alone wins games. If true, then USC or Texas would win it all every year. Why didn't Ron Zook win with the talent Spurrier left behind? Why didn't Dubose win with the fine talent that Stallings left behind? Five years down the road, it's clear to most serious football observers that Nick is not the coach responsible for LSU's most recent success. Nick's players are no longer at LSU and there has not been a talent drop-off.