Moore to do "The Catch"

[crimson mo]

Time out

When DM did his first print over 20 years ago the president of the University and the board of trustees had no problems with it.

Now 20 years later a new president (Dr. Robert E. Witt) wanted more money (some monies were paid but more was wanted) and sues with out the board of trustee’s knowledge.
Just as the AD bockrath decided to raise ticket prices, the President has decided to bring on this law suit.
The University of Alabama is not a living person who makes these decisions but is an organization whose official opinions change from leaders to leaders.
Next president may like Moore’s contributions or he may not but it is a possibility whom ever is named next could reverse the University position on this issue.
As for the “University” naming some guy as their “official” painter this is typical of this “new” administration.
What’s next, Dr. Robert E. Witt will try and make “sports illustrated “pay as they leave the stadium for taking pictures of the game?
If the Alabama graduate Moore wins the law suit will any of you who can’t stand him now offer an apology for calling him a SOB for counter suing UA (the president)?
This not Moore verses the entire bama nation (even though the lawsuit states The University of Alabama vs. Daniel Moore) it is Moore verses Dr. Robert E. Witt.
I think Dr. Witt has done an outstanding job at UA except for this Issue.
I think he got some bad advice and thought Moore would roll over.
I say that if you read all of the Information out there and still want to back Witt then by all means do it.
Just let the rest of us who think Witt is wrong express our selves with out being told that we don’t support the University.
I do support the University but I am not going to blindly agree with Witt just as I did not agree with Bockrath raising ticket prices for certain games or who ever decided to raise all concessions to $3.25 this year.
Every thing is not black and white and if you buy one of his prints it doesn’t make you anti bama.

 

[TurningTide]

I was all for Moore when all this first came out. But when things really started surfacing, I realized he was being greedy. He was using the University's LICENSED logo and the University's likeness and not wanting to pay his share. 5 years was plenty of negotiating by the University.

 

[BamaLaw]

Speaking only for myself, it's not a matter of pre-judging this case at all. Even if Moore wins in court, it will have no bearing on my opinion. He should pay the royalties. If some poor guy hawking t-shirts is willing to pay a small royalty then a millionare alumnus should jump at the chance. Frankly, I think he has every right to paint anything he choose, but I don't think that should entitle him to make 10,000 copies and sell them for profit. Again, that's just my opinion and has nothing to do with the law or the courts...
...I don't understand why you don't think we are entitled to our own opinions without a court rulling saying that we can have an opinion. I guess being a lawyer causes you to think that only a judge can determine right and wrong, but for John Q. Public, we have seen too many judges, juries and courts make a mockery out of "the system" to put much stock in the whole mess.

Opinions are like belly buttons and everybody has one and each individual is entitled to his own. I just can't believe how many are rushing to judge when NO ONE has ALL the facts. I didn't say you couldn't have an uninformed opinion. I didn't say anyone's uninformed opinion is wrong. I just suggested that people would be wise to hold off until all the facts are presented. That has not happened. But, knowing that Finus Gaston was the primary motivation behind the University bringing the lawsuit, I seriously doubt that the University actually is as much in the right as you choose to believe that they are.

 

[rollntider]

I was all for Moore when all this first came out. But when things really started surfacing, I realized he was being greedy. He was using the University's LICENSED logo and the University's likeness and not wanting to pay his share. 5 years was plenty of negotiating by the University.

you left out the fact moore wanted to pay the standard 8% fee that tee shirt vendors pay...and the part that UA refused that offer.

I also like the fact many of you claim Moore is a millionaire / Slanders the university. Moore is a working man like most of us, plus he has a child that goes to UA. I love America, but I am not anti american when I disagree with some things about it.

I am ordering one now and ROLL TIDE!!!!!!!

 

[BhamTide]

When DM did his first print over 20 years ago the president of the University and the board of trustees had no problems with it.

Now 20 years later a new president (Dr. Robert E. Witt) wanted more money (some monies were paid but more was wanted) and sues with out the board of trustee’s knowledge.
Just as the AD bockrath decided to raise ticket prices, the President has decided to bring on this law suit.
The University of Alabama is not a living person who makes these decisions but is an organization whose official opinions change from leaders to leaders.
Next president may like Moore’s contributions or he may not but it is a possibility whom ever is named next could reverse the University position on this issue.
As for the “University” naming some guy as their “official” painter this is typical of this “new” administration.
What’s next, Dr. Robert E. Witt will try and make “sports illustrated “pay as they leave the stadium for taking pictures of the game?
If the Alabama graduate Moore wins the law suit will any of you who can’t stand him now offer an apology for calling him a SOB for counter suing UA (the president)?
This not Moore verses the entire bama nation (even though the lawsuit states The University of Alabama vs. Daniel Moore) it is Moore verses Dr. Robert E. Witt.
I think Dr. Witt has done an outstanding job at UA except for this Issue.
I think he got some bad advice and thought Moore would roll over.
I say that if you read all of the Information out there and still want to back Witt then by all means do it.
Just let the rest of us who think Witt is wrong express our selves with out being told that we don’t support the University.
I do support the University but I am not going to blindly agree with Witt just as I did not agree with Bockrath raising ticket prices for certain games or who ever decided to raise all concessions to $3.25 this year.
Every thing is not black and white and if you buy one of his prints it doesn’t make you anti bama.

Well, maybe I'm wrong, but this doesn't seem right to me. From what I've read, the negotiations with Daniel Moore started several years before Dr. Witt was hired by Alabama and the lawsuit go ahead came from Finus Gaston. Even the University of Alabama Board of Trustees have stated that this is between the athletic department and Daniel Moore.

Has anyone else heard that Dr Witt is behind this? It seems that this would have made the newspaper before the Internet if it is true. Also, I would hope that Dr Witt doesn't feel a need to go to the Board with every lawsuit that the university finds itself dealing with. This type of micromanagement has landed auburn in hot water with SAC and I'm proud to have a BOT that doesn't play that game. Your post seems to indicate that you are in favor of clearing everything through the BOT. You're not a Lowder, are you?

I don't know how I feel about the Daniel Moore issue, but I don't think this is a priority issue for Witt and I doubt very seriously that he even discussed with the Athletic Department. I'll probably wait until the trial to make up my mind.

 

[bamaee04]

I called the 800 number last night and pre-ordered mine. The whole thing between Moore and the University is nothing more than ****ing match over money, and this issue should have been resolved long ago when Moore started doing the paintings with something set in stone. Moore's paintings have added so much to the great Bama memories. It makes me feel good that an alum has the talent to do this and share it with the rest of us. Roll Tide Roll!!

 

[crimson mo]

whats a lowder?

Bham tide
I said

that I felt that Dr. Witt got some bad advice regarding this law suit (probably from finus Gaston).
I also said that Moore had paid some monies to the university but that more was wanted.
The law suit was never cleared (I never said it should or should not be) by the board of trustees, now you say that is cool because to do so would be micro management.
You could be right about the clearing it through the board of trustees but don’t you think they should be informed (I stated that it was done with out their knowledge, no were did I say it was done with out their consent) of a law suit against a prominent artist and alumnist?
Most of the board members were not aware (I do think they should be informed about such issues) of the suit when asked about it by reporters, they learned of it at that moment.
Most could not believe it was true.
At this moment they are staying out of it but they were not pleased by the way they found out about it.
If they had been informed they may have said go ahead or at least they would not look like they were kept in the dark.
Should Dr. Witt clear every legal action with the board of trustees, I don’t know but I think they should at least be Informed.
Now what do you mean am I a “lowder”?

 

[TommyMac]

I called the 800 number last night and pre-ordered mine. The whole thing between Moore and the University is nothing more than ****ing match over money, and this issue should have been resolved long ago when Moore started doing the paintings with something set in stone. Moore's paintings have added so much to the great Bama memories. It makes me feel good that an alum has the talent to do this and share it with the rest of us. Roll Tide Roll!!

And how fortunate for ol' Daniel that while he was "sharing" with us, he fattened up his bank account considerably in the process.

If his motives were so unselfish as you are claiming, this whole thing would be a non-issue right now.

 

[Hawk324]

Good points from many. I went to T-Town yesterday and took a look at many of the various Bama-related prints from various artists. Personally I think Daniel Moore's work is far surperior and that is one BIG reason I'd like to have one. I may be a cad for saying this, but when it comes to displaying art in my home, I want the best I can get. I want something that looks really nice. And i dont really care if Moore is a bajillionaire or a working stiff (or both). I dont care if Dr Witt has anything to do with any of this dispute or if Mal Moore has an opinion on it. And I dont care if someone at mighty Alabama throws a little tantrum (or not) because they aren't getting a cut. Do the players get a cut for their achievements? Do the fans get a cut even though they pay ever-rising tuition and ticket prices? Does Alabama care about the cost of these things to the parents and students and fans?

I'll cheer for Alabama as hard as I possibly can. And I'll buy the best looking Bama merchandise that i can afford (even the DM stuff) and yell Roll Tide all the way.

 

[TommyMac]

Good points from many. I went to T-Town yesterday and took a look at many of the various Bama-related prints from various artists. Personally I think Daniel Moore's work is far surperior and that is one BIG reason I'd like to have one. I may be a cad for saying this, but when it comes to displaying art in my home, I want the best I can get. I want something that looks really nice. And i dont really care if Moore is a bajillionaire or a working stiff (or both). I dont care if Dr Witt has anything to do with any of this dispute or if Mal Moore has an opinion on it. And I dont care if someone at mighty Alabama throws a little tantrum (or not) because they aren't getting a cut. Do the players get a cut for their achievements? Do the fans get a cut even though they pay ever-rising tuition and ticket prices? Does Alabama care about the cost of these things to the parents and students and fans?

I'll cheer for Alabama as hard as I possibly can. And I'll buy the best looking Bama merchandise that i can afford (even the DM stuff) and yell Roll Tide all the way.

It's interesting that you consider The University wanting it's share of the pie as throwing "a little tantrum," but not DM for not wanting to share the pie.

As for the players getting a cut, I've always been under the impression that the scholarships already address that issue.

As for the fans, what would you suggest? Isn't CFB when all is said and done, a form of entertainment? What form of entertainment do people get a rebate on? Movies, concerts, cruises, theme parks, professional sports? Fans are customers, not shareholders.

If Daniel Moore entered into a contract with The University of Alabama or "mighty Alabama" as you chose to label them, why shouldn't he be held responsible to honor that contract?

 

[NYBamaFan]

It's interesting that you consider The University wanting it's share of the pie as throwing "a little tantrum," but not DM for not wanting to share the pie.

I'm with you, to a point. My understanding is not that DM wants to keep it all, but that the amount offered to the University for royalties did not meet the University's requirements. DM offered x, the University asked for y, and they need to reach a compromise. After 4 years of negotiating, the University decided enough was enough, and filed suit - not a good negotiating tool.

I won't buy another DM painting until this is settled, but I see no victims here...

 

[TommyMac]

I'm with you, to a point. My understanding is not that DM wants to keep it all, but that the amount offered to the University for royalties did not meet the University's requirements. DM offered x, the University asked for y, and they need to reach a compromise. After 4 years of negotiating, the University decided enough was enough, and filed suit - not a good negotiating tool.

I won't buy another DM painting until this is settled, but I see no victims here...

Well, if that's the case, then Daniel Moore needs to make a determination if BAMA football needs Daniel Moore more than Daniel Moore needs BAMA football.

Being that ALABAMA was a storied name in CFB well before Daniel Moore was even born, I'd bet that BAMA has the edge.

 

[NYBamaFan]

Well, if that's the case, then Daniel Moore needs to make a determination if BAMA football needs Daniel Moore more than Daniel Moore needs BAMA football.

Being that ALABAMA was a storied name in CFB well before Daniel Moore was even born, I'd bet that BAMA has the edge.

It's not a question of having an edge, IMO. Does DM owe the University something? Absolutely. Should he pony up the cash? Without a doubt - no matter what the court decides. But I don't see the University as a victim. This is "found money". The University does nothing for it.

I hope that they work it out because it was great for both parties for so many years...

 

[Hawk324]

It's interesting that you consider The University wanting it's share of the pie as throwing "a little tantrum," but not DM for not wanting to share the pie.

As for the players getting a cut, I've always been under the impression that the scholarships already address that issue.

As for the fans, what would you suggest? Isn't CFB when all is said and done, a form of entertainment? What form of entertainment do people get a rebate on? Movies, concerts, cruises, theme parks, professional sports? Fans are customers, not shareholders.

If Daniel Moore entered into a contract with The University of Alabama or "mighty Alabama" as you chose to label them, why shouldn't he be held responsible to honor that contract?

*Laughing* So I’m supposed to boycott DM’s works and buy what I consider to be “inferior” artwork simply because the U of A gets mad at Daniel Moore and as a result all fans should stand by the University? Puh-leeze! I’m as big a fan as the next guy but I know for a fact that sometimes certain officals at the University have thrown their weight around more than they should. There are some fine people at the University. Unfortunately, there have been a few rotten apples.

But there seems to be some question as to what this suit was about. Perhaps I’m mistaken, but as I understood it, in the beginning of this whole fiasco, Finus Gaston “summoned” Daniel Moore to his office and informed him that after 26 years of making fine paintings (many of which have hung in offices within the University itself), that now suddenly he has decided that “the University’s position is that merely depicting the Alabama sports uniform is cause enough to be subject to licensing—even if it did not include a depiction of a registered trademark of the school itself. Not only that, but they now believe that all of DM’s prints of UA subjects should be subject to licensing. DM cited a Supreme Court ruling regarding a similar issue. Furthermore, DM has expressed his full agreement and support of the concept of licensing when done so within the boundaries of the law. Gaston apparently felt confident that judges in this region of the country would have a different opinion that favored his stance.

I am unaware if Moore and the University ever entered into a contract that either party is compelled to honor.

Its really funny how now, after 26 years, this has suddenly become an issue. Why did the U of A not talk with Moore about these concerns 26 years ago? Something weird seems to have taken place recently and I would be curious to know what it might be.

As for scholarships (which you brought up and has little to do with this thread), I think you’ll find that many student athletes (not to mention fans) think the NCAA could be a bit more lenient in that area and that players usually need a little more in the way of gas, clothing and other money that could be used to help the athlete’s overall college experience.

Lastly, yes…CFB is a form of entertainment and we, as fans, pay the tickets prices or pay-per-view price if we wish to see the games. That’s fair. What isn’t fair is are administrators (who may or may not have a grudge to grind) telling us that now we can’t continue to buy that artist’s work. All I can say to them is ‘Good luck with that’.

As a result…I will still try to buy the DM print(s), regardless of ‘Mighty Alabama’s (Gaston’s) position and this has absolutely nothing to do with my support of the team or coaches. I will seek out the prints, cheer for the Tide and have fun doing so. I’m sorry that this bothers a few of you, but there it is.

 

[TAGnBAMA]

ROLL TIDE ROLL!!! You Go Daniel! I'll Buy For Sure, And So Will Many Others Who Are Now So Called "DANIEL MOORE" Haters.

Tag

 

[Dartigan]

Out of this whole thing, what amazes me the most is it seems like the University is perceiving itself as losing money. UA would only be losing money if they had someone on their payroll capable of producing the same quality of work - and there is another guy out there trying to rip it off. The University isn't offering DM any competetion... they just want to profit off of his talent. What they are losing is the ability to capitalize on someone else's work. Enter lawsuit.

The University isn't being taken advantage of IMO b/c they've nothing to lose! They have nothing invested in these prints, and they have no current way to gain market share even if DM doesn't produce another painting!

It's free advertising. You guys saw the picture of "The Sack" during the USC game didn't you? Have you ever been to the Bryant Museum?

Guys, I understand all about principle. I haven't eaten at Checker's since September 1999 because of the way an employee treated me (And I LOVED their food when I was in college). So I'm not telling you're wrong for feeling the way you do if you're mad at DM. But I do think it's unfair to come on here and talk about what a greedy piece of garbage he is when the University could be perceived as just as greedy.

 

[Alanbama27]

I have given my 2 cents worth on this topic each time I see it

because it is 1000% clear that 99.9% of you don't have a clue about the law suit. You're going to say that the University is right regardless because you'll obviously follow a blind man to an oasis in the desert.

As BamaLaw said...don't judge Daniel Moore or the University until the case gets to court!

As for buying or not buying the print that is a personal choice and I for one have NEVER seen a better catch in all of my 43 years and WILL BUY IT! It is about Alabama football and Tyrone Prothro more than Daniel Moore or Finus Gaston, who is the actual idiot who suggested that a suit be brought.

Before judging Daniel Moore or the University, I suggest you take 5 minutes and speak to him about this topic and then do the same with President Witt as I have and then you can have an educated opinion...until then, keeping your opinions to yourself my be the best course of action.

 

[BamaZone]

BamaLaw: At any rate, this is why we have courts and why this is headed for court...so that a third party arbiter can determine exactly what the facts are and which party is and/or is not entitled to what action and/or funds. That being said, I believe that, while courts usually get it right, they don't always do so. That is why there is an appeals process that goes all the way to the Supreme Court.

...I'll wait until there is either an agreement/settlement or until a final resolution in the court after all appeals are exhausted.

Spoken like a true lawyer... What ever you do, DO NOT settle out-of-court! Take it to court, then appeal and re-appeal, then to the Supreme Court!

 

[SidewalkBama]

I don't know all the particulars, and even if i did it might

I see her every week at UA games. I've got 8 DM Prints. I'll be proud and happy to add "The Catch" to my collection as number 9.

I fail to understand why so many on this board have already tried this case and found for UA. Just because UA brought the lawsuit, does not mean that UA was/is clearly in the right. Just because Moore was the one originally sued does not mean that he was/is clearly in the wrong. The fact that Moore counter-sued does not make him right, nor does in make UA wrong. I may be wrong here, but I don't think that anyone on this board has ALL the facts regarding this situation. What we have heard from each side is that sides story, as far as has been released. The truth likely resides somewhere in between the two stories.

it might be too complex for me to understand. That being said, I have a good eye for art and Daniel Moore has produced some of the finest paintings i have ever seen. Would be nice if all this could be worked out.

RTR SB