Most Of Cottrell/Williams Case Thrown Out...

[CapitalTider]

I have never understood why that info was greeted with a big yawn and a "who cares" from the Administration.

I'm not sure what you expect the University to do with this information. The damage has been done. Despite what many fans think, quitting the SEC would not be in our best interest. The University has little or no recourse against Fulmer. Kramer is out as head of the SEC, and was already out when all of this information came to light. I suppose the University could sue Kramer/Fulmer to try and recoup damages, but likely doesn't have the stomach for any more of this mess and would have a difficult time proving the case. As has been pointed out repeatedly, sure Marsh and Robbins would have disassociated Young and stopped the recruitment of Means had they known this was going on. But there were other violations and proving that our penalties would have been dramatically reduced would be tough. I don't like Fulmer or Kramer or anything about this mess, but it's really time we moved on as a program and as fans. Fulmer was into it to his neck, this has been exposed and the fact that UT received preferential treatment from the SEC under Kramer has been exposed, that is the best things to come out of all of this. Everything else there's too much potential down-side or too little to gain to be worth the effort.

I am floored the University would let fulmer's slander of Coach Bryant go unchallenged.

I don't know if you can slander a dead man, maybe one of our litigator attorneys can answer that. Irregardless, I don't think the University would have standing to file such a suit even if they wanted to. Paul Bryant, Jr. might, but not the University, and I'm betting he will let it go. Again, it's not worth it, they couldn't beat him on the field so they accuse him of cheating. It's the kind of whiney behavior that should be expected of the vomits.

 

[CapitalTider]

The odd thing to me about this is the reason that everything was thrown out was because of Cottrell being a public figure, which makes the standards higher for proving his case.

I may be confused on all of the dismissals, but I think the conspiracy charges were thrown out because no link could be shown between Fulmer/Kramer and the NCAA on the one hand and Cottrell/Williams on the other. I always thought that was the biggest hole in that part of the case. Sure Fulmer reported us and Kramer did not let the University know about this information, but where was the NCAA's involvement in that? No proof was offered showing the NCAA to be a co-conspirator. Secondly, how did all of that impact Cottrell/Williams? Sure they lost their jobs, but the NCAA did not require that.

The public figure part relates to the libel/slander charge against the NCAA for incorrectly posting that there was a show-cause order against Cottrell. The fact that the court ruled Cottrell was a public figure, makes the standard malice. Cottrell would have to show that the NCAA acted with malice. The court held that insufficient evidence had been introduced to have any hope of proving malice on the part of the NCAA. Malice by Culpepper sure, that parts still on. I don't understand how Cottrell is a limited public figure and Williams is not. They were both assistant coaches, I didn't think Cottrell had more responsibility or visibility than Williams, so I would have thought they would be treated the same. As Gallion said, this has pretty much sunk their case. Sure they can still sue Culpepper, but what are they going to get from him? The case was a long-shot to begin with, but we did find out some interesting stuff that would have never been publicly released absent the suit. We'll have to be happy with that and hope that the University makes sure that this type thing never happens again.

 

[CrimsonChuck]

Check out this link:

http://www.tidesports.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050707/NEWS/50707003/1011

It doesn't really say anything about the case being thrown out because of no link between Fulmer/Kramer and Cottrell/Williams. It only mentions the public figure part. Maybe the court transcript mentions it.

And you have a good point about the conflict between Cottrell being a public figure and Williams not being one. I didn't even think about that. IMHO, that has a good chance of being overturned in an appeal.

 

[CapitalTider]

It doesn't really say anything about the case being thrown out because of no link between Fulmer/Kramer and Cottrell/Williams. It only mentions the public figure part. Maybe the court transcript mentions it.

However, after saying all of this, the University of Alabama investigation is only peripherally related to this case. The conspiracy that is relevant is a conspiracy by the defendant's to defame the plaintiffs, and make them "the fall guys."

Scarbinsky's article sums up my point on that well, I didn't do as good of a job conveying it. There may have been a conspiracy involving Fulmer, Kramer and the NCAA, but it wasn't against Cottrell and Williams. Since they were the plaintiffs that portion was tossed. I also question why Fulmer and Kramer were not named as defendants.

 

[CapstoneTider]

 

[CrimsonChuck]

From this article.

The motion claims the abuse of judicial discression on 1.) Denying the motion to compel release of an agreement between the NCAA and Tom Culpepper on legal bills, 2.) Denying the motion to compel producing the NCAA and Rich Johanningmeier's records, such as phone and e-mail records and 3.) Premature court rulings before depositions of NCAA employee Cheryl DeWees and her boss Shep Cooper could be submitted for the court's review.

There is the link. The NCAA allegedly paid for Culpepper's legal bills. If they did, then they are in on it just as much as Culpepper.

 

[PsychoJoe]

However, after saying all of this, the University of Alabama investigation is only peripherally related to this case. The conspiracy that is relevant is a conspiracy by the defendant's to defame the plaintiffs, and make them "the fall guys."

Scarbinsky's article sums up my point on that well, I didn't do as good of a job conveying it. There may have been a conspiracy involving Fulmer, Kramer and the NCAA, but it wasn't against Cottrell and Williams. Since they were the plaintiffs that portion was tossed. I also question why Fulmer and Kramer were not named as defendants.

I don't believe that they have to show that the NCAA et al conspired against the two coaches. It would, IMO, be sufficient to show that the conspirators acted in wanton disregard of the effect their actions might have on parties other than our favorite football team. It is a slam dunk that there was a conspiracy against U of A.

If nothing else, Galleon should write a book detailing what he thinks happened and the supporting evidence. Phatimus Maximus couldn't sue, because then he'd have to testify in discovery.

 

[CapitalTider]

I don't believe that they have to show that the NCAA et al conspired against the two coaches. It would, IMO, be sufficient to show that the conspirators acted in wanton disregard of the effect their actions might have on parties other than our favorite football team.

"In order to succeed on a civil-conspiracy claim, a plaintiff must prove a concerted action by two or more people that achieved an unlawful purpose or a lawful end by unlawful means." Luck, 763 So. 2d at 247. "'Where civil liability for a conspiracy is sought to be enforced, the conspiracy itself furnishes no cause of action. The gist of the action is not the conspiracy alleged but the wrong committed.'" Purcell Co. v. Spriggs Enters., Inc., 431 So. 2d 515, 522 (Ala. 1983) (quoting O'Dell v. State ex rel. Patterson, 270 Ala. 236, 240, 117 So. 2d 164, 168 (1959)). Singleton v. Protective Life Ins. Co. CV-98-423 (Ala. 2003).

It would seem that the Alabama Supreme Court disagrees with you. The conspiracy is not a separate action, there must be a conspiracy to commit some other tort in a civil case. The other tort was the defamation/slander. The NCAA would have to have conspired with someone else to defame or slander Cottrell. Presumably those other persons were Culpepper, Fulmer and Kramer. Fulmer and Kramer were not even named as defendants, so go ahead and toss them out. That leaves Culpepper. The link between the NCAA and Culpepper was too tenuous for this to hold up. It certainly looks like there was a conspiracy by the SEC Office to not inform Alabama of the Means deal. But, again, that has NOTHING to do with Cottrell. The plaintiffs would have to show some causal link between the damage to the University and Cottrell. Despite all of Gallion's grandstanding, that evidence never came out. There seemed to be very little, if any, evidence connecting Culpepper and the NCAA. Sure he was a witness against the school in the infractions case. That does not establish a conspiracy between the NCAA and Culpepper to slander Cottrell. Maybe the excluded "legal fees agreement" between Cottrell and the NCAA is the "smoking gun" everyone is looking for; somehow I doubt it though. I think if that document is ever revealed it will be another case of "much ado about nothing" as most of this miserable case has been.

 

[mltide64]

That is a good one Capstone Tider (the Picture of a departing member) I almost spilt my milk!

 

[BAMARICH]

Agree with some who...

Express thanks that much of the lawsuit has been thrown out. For those of you who are ticked about the latest developments consider the following:
1) It is obvious that Alabama has a case against the SEC, CPF, & (possibly) the NCAA. Yet, (hard to figure) administrators did not pursue it.
2) The judge in the case made many documents public that allowed all within the Bama nation to realize the parts that many played in the situation. Yet, he dismissed the bulk of the case.
3) Many of our more knowledgeable (in the loop) members of TideFans have quietly warned us that TG's antics could embarrass UA even further (a good example is seen in Terry P.'s post on the first page of this thread).

Today, look at what we have in hand. We know all those who did us dirty in the situation (regardless of how guilty we might have or not have been). All that should help a similar situation from occurring again in the future. With a lot of the lawsuit thrown out, there is NO further danger that facts will come out that will further tarnish our image (either regionally or nationally). Garth Brooks popularized a song one time that indicated that he was thankful "for unanswered prayers." If this lawsuit continued and Bama was shown to be guilty of more violations and have more dirty boosters, all of us would have been crying "why didn't they tell Tommy Gallion to can it before all the trash was exposed." I.e. unanswered prayer is the lawsuit ending. Finally, with at least a partially repaired reputation, we have the opportunity to continue the rebuilding on and off the field. Would I like to have seen the whole lawsuit continue? ONLY if it would be positive for us... For one, I am far less than 100% certain it would have turned out that way. JMO.