Pat Forde: SEC, Big10 Bad Bad Bad

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Not sure if AI Pat Forde or Human Pat Forde wrote this but it is possibly the dumbest sentence ever to appear in SI (and there have been a bunch): "The two most powerful conferences in America are scared to compete."

Go back to your cave, Forde. We only want serious people over here.
 

selmaborntidefan

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I love the claim about the ACC having five top two seeds. I love how he ignores the fact that that was one dynastic team.

The ACC didn’t have five top two seeds, Clemson did.

Anti-– SEC folks want to pretend that Alabama was the only reason the SEC had all those appearances, but Georgia and LSU both won national championships as well.
 

Ole Man Dan

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Not sure if AI Pat Forde or Human Pat Forde wrote this but it is possibly the dumbest sentence ever to appear in SI (and there have been a bunch): "The two most powerful conferences in America are scared to compete."

Go back to your cave, Forde. We only want serious people over here.
Pat Forde may be the biggest dummy associated with sports.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Let's just cut through the bull, sister....

The part nobody really seems to want to comprehend - or pretend they don't comprehend - is the fact that the SEC and Big Ten drive the money train in college football. Without them, there IS NO modern college football. The brand value of the SEC was and is so well-known that when Notre Dame took that NBC contract in January 1990, there was fear and trembling in the ABC/ESPN offices that the SEC would follow the Irish out the door.

(For those who either weren't around or don't remember: all of the non-Rose Bowl conferences were members of a loosely organized group known as the College Football Association, joined together so that they could sell their games AS A PACKAGE and make money rather than team-by-team, which would destroy much of college football, you know, kinda like right now. Notre Dame was the crown jewel of the CFA, but the SEC was second and without them, the networks didn't give a damn about the Big 8, SWC, ACC, or HBCUs that got 1-2 games per year).

BTW - for those of you hearing partisan nonsense, the CFA vs non-CFA membership is why there were so few games between the Big Ten and SEC for years, not because "Southern teams are afraid to play up north in November" or any other such nonsense. It was because there was a huge controversy over who got to televise the game if a non-CFA (e.g. Rose Bowl conference) team played a CFA team, which is why the solution tended to be either not to play or to play a home-and-home, and Alabama isn't playing Purdue or Indiana in a home-and-home, etc.

I'm as sick as can be over where this sport has headed and it looks like after totally decimating NASCAR about 20 years ago, FOX and ESPN learned nothing and will destroy CFB next. But having said that, it's not the SEC or Big 10's fault that they have more viewers or rabid fans than your conference does and thus GET TO CALL THE SHOTS since they're inherently more valuable.


If you want to know who to blame, go back and read what happened with the TV deals in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, when the (later called) Divisions I-AA, II, and III could bully the big boys around because they had the votes and everyone got one vote so they'd band together to make sure the big teams had to fork over money to teams who were never going to play on TV.

Forde might either want to do a little reading on what that was like - back when the little guys were the bullies - and realize its a shifting market and the reality nobody outside the city limits of San Francisco other than graduates gives a damn about Stanford-Cal.
 

davefrat

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This is like arguing that the NFL is afraid to play the XFL.

No one honestly disputes that the SEC and BIG are head and shoulders above every other conference, and it's not even close.

Maybe the SEC and BIG should just form one conference and tell the NCAA and the rest of the college football world to bugger off.

In 2024 both leagues will have a combined total of 32 teams, correct?

Just align each team with an NFL team and make it a farm league and be done with it.
 

CrimsonNagus

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I want the SEC and Big 10 to separate and create their own league. I'm sick and tired of having to appease the PAC whatever, ND, G5, you know the little guys, cries for fairness. SEC/B1G should just "pack up and go home" and we will see how long the rest of the crybabies survive as their money dries up because it is all going to the new SEC/B1G league.

In 2024 both leagues will have a combined total of 32 teams, correct?
34, 16 in the SEC and 18 in the B1G.
 
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Alogan1983

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College football is a big business with coaches making 10s of millions and now millionaire players, and no one to check these conferences. It's becoming more professional by the day it seems, with even more rule changes being brought over from the NFL. Might as well add two feet down for a catch, scrap the term 'FBS" and call it what it is, a minor league for the NFL. Even aside from the playoffs, bowls have had huge corporate sponsorships and payouts for decades.

Any notion of amateur athletics at the FBS level is long gone. So, the SEC and B1G are the biggest "brands" in the business...say what you will about Forde, but the conferences are no longer hiding what most people have known all along.

Ask yourself why is Stanford in the ACC? Why is Rutgers in the B1G? Why don't Nebraska and Oklahoma play anymore? The answer is always the same...money, money, money.

Just wait until Alabama "rests" it's starters in the Iron Bowl because they have a top seed all ready secured. It's coming.
 
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Alogan1983

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I want the SEC and Big 10 to separate and create their own league. I'm sick and tired of having to appease the PAC whatever, ND, G5, you know the little guys, cries for fairness. SEC/B1G should just "pack up and go home" and we will see how long the rest of the crybabies survive as their money dries up because it is all going to the new SEC/B1G league.


34, 16 in the SEC and 18 in the B1G.
Notre Dame is anything but a little guy. Who cares when they last won a title? That means nothing. The brand has been strong enough to negotiate it's own TV deals and the fan base is huge and guaranteed eyeballs ("money").
 
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davefrat

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I want the SEC and Big 10 to separate and create their own league. I'm sick and tired of having to appease the PAC whatever, ND, G5, you know the little guys, cries for fairness. SEC/B1G should just "pack up and go home" and we will see how long the rest of the crybabies survive as their money dries up because it is all going to the new SEC/B1G league.


34, 16 in the SEC and 18 in the B1G.
Then dump Vandy and Rutgers and it's 32.

Problem solved.
 

davefrat

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Notre Dame is anything but a little guy. Who cares when they last won a title? That means nothing. The brand has been strong enough to negotiate it's own TV deals and the fan base is huge and guaranteed eyeballs ("money").
ND and their stupid "Subway Alumni" can go pound sand.

They've been almost totally irrelevant for 35+ years now.

They should have been forced to join a conference or die years ago.

To hades with ND and all the Golden Homers.
 

Ole Man Dan

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This is like arguing that the NFL is afraid to play the XFL.

No one honestly disputes that the SEC and BIG are head and shoulders above every other conference, and it's not even close.

Maybe the SEC and BIG should just form one conference and tell the NCAA and the rest of the college football world to bugger off.

In 2024 both leagues will have a combined total of 32 teams, correct?

Just align each team with an NFL team and make it a farm league and be done with it.
We are already uncomfortably close to the Farm Teams you mentioned.
WHEN NIL BEGAN PAYING PLAYERS EVERYTHING CHANGED.
 

selmaborntidefan

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ND and their stupid "Subway Alumni" can go pound sand.

They've been almost totally irrelevant for 35+ years now.
Ah, the typical Alabama fan provincialism with, "Unless you won the national championship, your program is irrelevant." Using this kind of logic, Miami and Washington (who as a reminder just played in the title game) and Colorado are irrelevant. Never mind that Washington has appeared in a championship game SINCE ALABAMA HAS!!!

Last September, Notre Dame drew the 2nd highest rating for a regular season football game on NBC in thirty years. Who's in the #1 spot? Also Notre Dame (1993 FSU). Of course, the objection to this is going to be, "Of course they did, they've had a TV contract with NBC since 1991 and are about the only team that plays on there." Okay, let's continue then.

For the four-week span of September 23 through October 14, Notre Dame ranked SECOND OVERALL in TV viewership behind Colorado. And AHEAD of Alabama.

Wanna see whom the opponents were?
NOTRE DAME - Ohio State, Duke, Louisville, USC
ALABAMA - Ole Miss, Miss St, aTm, Arkansas

Notre Dame outdrew Alabama by 8.3 million viewers and while we'll all admit Ohio State is a draw, Duke and Louisville most assuredly shouldn't be drawing as many fans as the others. And taking the entire regular season, Notre Dame ranked #8 in average viewership. And let's all admit Colorado's rating was largely the product of hiring a provocative coach people wanted to laugh at.

Notre Dame draws eyes to the television, more than any SEC team not named Alabama or Georgia, more than Oklahoma and more than any Big Ten team not named Michigan or Ohio State.

And as far as being relevant in the winner's circle lately, in the last six seasons Notre Dame has a record of 63-14 with two playoff appearances and a #5 final CFP ranking thanks to a loss to Cincinnati.

So let's see how "irrelevant" they are in the wins picture:

Alabama 74-9 (one CFP title, five CFP appearances)
Georgia 73-9 (two CFP titles)
Clemson 69-13 (one CFP title)
Ohio St 66-9 (0 national titles, 3 CFP appearances, 2-0 vs Irish)
Notre Dame 63-14
Michigan 61-14 (note: Irish and UM have met twice in those years with a 1-1 record each team)
Oklahoma 60-18 (as many national titles and playoff wins as the Irish with more chances)
Oregon 57-18
LSU 56-22 (one CFP title, one losing season)
Penn St 52-22
Washington 50-21 (one CFP finals appearance, 2 losing seasons)
USC 41-29

Among the FBS big boys, they're fifth in wins - RECENTLY.
They're also 5th in winning pct.

No, they haven't won a national championship. That's the ONLY shortcoming in recent years - and they haven't ever had the best team in CFB or even close to it on the field. They have more wins than LSU despite the Tigers having a national title.

And guess what? If you told a TV executive, we have two teams here we need you to pick from to award a national contract and those two teams were Notre Dame and LSU, guess who gets picked before a full breath has passed?

They should have been forced to join a conference or die years ago.
They tried to join the Big Ten (Western Conference)
In 1899.
In 1901.
In 1902.
In 1913.
In 1917.
In 1919.
In 1924 (Delaney likes to pretend we don't know Michigan Coach Fielding Yost was scared of them)
In 1926.

In fact, when they applied for admission in 1913, they'd played 29 games against B1G schools and gone 16-9-4. They were rejected UNANIMOUSLY by the then-Western Conference in a 9-0 vote (Nebraska was rejected, 5-4), probably because of anti-Catholicism.

Of course even in 1926 they couldn't come out and SAY that so they hid behind "academic reasons."

To hades with ND and all the Golden Homers.
Depends on if you wants eyes watching the game or not.

They may not have won a national title in 35 years, but they're still a big draw, certainly in the Top Ten among the 130 FBS teams. If I'm the SEC, why wouldn't I push out Vandy or Miss State to accommodate Notre Dame? (It's probably a legal thing, but we all know who the bigger draw is).
 

selmaborntidefan

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Why don't Nebraska and Oklahoma play anymore? The answer is always the same...money, money, money.
I agree with pretty much everything you said except this.

Oklahoma-Nebraska should be - SHOULD BE - a money draw as long as we still have some Boomers and Gen Xers around. It was the kind of thing you could use to set your Thanksgiving schedule.
 

davefrat

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Ah, the typical Alabama fan provincialism with, "Unless you won the national championship, your program is irrelevant." Using this kind of logic, Miami and Washington (who as a reminder just played in the title game) and Colorado are irrelevant. Never mind that Washington has appeared in a championship game SINCE ALABAMA HAS!!!

Last September, Notre Dame drew the 2nd highest rating for a regular season football game on NBC in thirty years. Who's in the #1 spot? Also Notre Dame (1993 FSU). Of course, the objection to this is going to be, "Of course they did, they've had a TV contract with NBC since 1991 and are about the only team that plays on there." Okay, let's continue then.

For the four-week span of September 23 through October 14, Notre Dame ranked SECOND OVERALL in TV viewership behind Colorado. And AHEAD of Alabama.

Wanna see whom the opponents were?
NOTRE DAME - Ohio State, Duke, Louisville, USC
ALABAMA - Ole Miss, Miss St, aTm, Arkansas

Notre Dame outdrew Alabama by 8.3 million viewers and while we'll all admit Ohio State is a draw, Duke and Louisville most assuredly shouldn't be drawing as many fans as the others. And taking the entire regular season, Notre Dame ranked #8 in average viewership. And let's all admit Colorado's rating was largely the product of hiring a provocative coach people wanted to laugh at.

Notre Dame draws eyes to the television, more than any SEC team not named Alabama or Georgia, more than Oklahoma and more than any Big Ten team not named Michigan or Ohio State.

And as far as being relevant in the winner's circle lately, in the last six seasons Notre Dame has a record of 63-14 with two playoff appearances and a #5 final CFP ranking thanks to a loss to Cincinnati.

So let's see how "irrelevant" they are in the wins picture:

Alabama 74-9 (one CFP title, five CFP appearances)
Georgia 73-9 (two CFP titles)
Clemson 69-13 (one CFP title)
Ohio St 66-9 (0 national titles, 3 CFP appearances, 2-0 vs Irish)
Notre Dame 63-14
Michigan 61-14 (note: Irish and UM have met twice in those years with a 1-1 record each team)
Oklahoma 60-18 (as many national titles and playoff wins as the Irish with more chances)
Oregon 57-18
LSU 56-22 (one CFP title, one losing season)
Penn St 52-22
Washington 50-21 (one CFP finals appearance, 2 losing seasons)
USC 41-29

Among the FBS big boys, they're fifth in wins - RECENTLY.
They're also 5th in winning pct.

No, they haven't won a national championship. That's the ONLY shortcoming in recent years - and they haven't ever had the best team in CFB or even close to it on the field. They have more wins than LSU despite the Tigers having a national title.

And guess what? If you told a TV executive, we have two teams here we need you to pick from to award a national contract and those two teams were Notre Dame and LSU, guess who gets picked before a full breath has passed?



They tried to join the Big Ten (Western Conference)
In 1899.
In 1901.
In 1902.
In 1913.
In 1917.
In 1919.
In 1924 (Delaney likes to pretend we don't know Michigan Coach Fielding Yost was scared of them)
In 1926.

In fact, when they applied for admission in 1913, they'd played 29 games against B1G schools and gone 16-9-4. They were rejected UNANIMOUSLY by the then-Western Conference in a 9-0 vote (Nebraska was rejected, 5-4), probably because of anti-Catholicism.

Of course even in 1926 they couldn't come out and SAY that so they hid behind "academic reasons."



Depends on if you wants eyes watching the game or not.

They may not have won a national title in 35 years, but they're still a big draw, certainly in the Top Ten among the 130 FBS teams. If I'm the SEC, why wouldn't I push out Vandy or Miss State to accommodate Notre Dame? (It's probably a legal thing, but we all know who the bigger draw is).
I couldn’t care less about what kind of draw they are.

On the field they’re an irrelevant paper tiger and have been for decades and decades.

You act like viewership will plummet if the Golden Dome isn’t in the mix.

The college football world doesn’t need ND and would be just fine without them.

And Miami and Colorado ARE irrelevant.
 

selmaborntidefan

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I couldn’t care less about what kind of draw they are.
Show "I don't understand anything about college football economics" without saying "I don't understand anything about college football economics."

At this point, there's no need to continue.
 

davefrat

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Show "I don't understand anything about college football economics" without saying "I don't understand anything about college football economics."

At this point, there's no need to continue.
I understand the economics just fine.

College football will be wildly profitable with or without ND.

If you don’t understand that, then maybe there is no point in continuing.

College football doesn’t need ND to make billions.

No single team is so valuable that the profitability of the sport depends on it.
 

The Ols

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Notre Dame is anything but a little guy. Who cares when they last won a title? That means nothing. The brand has been strong enough to negotiate it's own TV deals and the fan base is huge and guaranteed eyeballs ("money").
Meh…Agreed but most fans I know dislike ND and killing students and recruiting coordinators having children w/recruits…
 

davefrat

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Meh…Agreed but most fans I know dislike ND and killing students and recruiting coordinators having children w/recruits…
Shocking as it may seem, college football would go on a not skip a beat even if Alabama wasn’t a part of it in the future.

The game is way bigger than any team.
 
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