Recruiting, followup to earlier thread i posted that was locked

[Bama Greg]

Hey Guys and Gals,

I posted a thread earlier about Saban losing his edge in recruiting, man I did not realize the can of worms I was about to open.

I do not believe we are losing the battle, just frustrated that all the other schools use the depth chart against us. I know we are still doing great in recruiting, just wish that we had room for all of them. Yes, they are 17-18 yr. old young men, but what I still want to know is, do they go to the other schools for early playing time or is the fear of competition against some of the best athletes that we have there already, play into their decision. I know that the home state schools pull at the heart strings of some of these kids, but playing for a National Championship would seem to be the main factor I would want.

I follow recruiting with a passion, yes I get disappointed any time we lose any recruit. We are the University of Alabama, we should be able to have anyone we want(lol).

Seriously, I used to get all bent out of shape when we lost a great recruit, but that is the way it is, we can't take them all.

Also, guys chill, I know that Coach Saban is still the man, he does it the right way, no negative recruiting, he sells the school, sells the fact that he can turn kids into men, give him the tools to leave the University ready to take on the world. Just seems of late that we have missed out on some great recruits, something that used to didn't happen, hence why I asked the question; "is he losing his edge".

Sorry to have ruffled so many feathers. The future is bright, we should be playing for number 14 next year, am ready for spring ball to start already.

ROLL TIDE,
Bama Greg

 

[buzzincuzzin]

Nothing left but very few spots and a bunch of high profile players. Not for just us, but everybody this time of year. Anybody following recruiting no matter the school needs to expect to lose more than win now. Get what you need and be happy with the best class in the country.

 

[runtheoption22]

every team loses top recruits every year....we've lost some big ones every year, even with CNS.

you can only sign 28 at most now with some schools sending out hundreds of offers each year. I would bet money that CNS sends out fewer offers than most coaches. Houston Nutt is notorious for sending out enough scholarships to keep a mail room staff busy for days.

 

[jps1983]

every team loses top recruits every year....we've lost some big ones every year, even with CNS.

This. We have missed on a lot of high profile kids, heck we had one last year that decommited during the dead period or shortly before it, so we were in a huge bind for filling that spot (if i remember the timing correctly). It happens. Look at Westerman switching about 10 days before NSD from UT to the barn or Pagan and UF. This will always happen b/c some coaches (hint: the barn) uses negative recruiting in a big way against us. Some kids will buy into it or will buy into the "home team" concept, but CNS will have a top 5 class almost every year.

The thing that bothered me from the prior thread was the fact that we are currently #2 on Rivals (maybe #1 with UT losing Westerman), so it's not like we totally struck out this year. We've missed on a bunch of high profile guys, but we've also hit on a lot of high profile guys that might not otherwise have come to Bama were it not for CNS and staff recruiting like madmen (Hart and Ha-Ha for example). I understand the desire to vent, but I don't think recruiting is the most "vent-able" area this season. I'm still more upset about the barn loss than I will ever be about missing on signing a prospect.

 

[VegasTide]

I do not believe we are losing the battle, just frustrated that all the other schools use the depth chart against us. I know we are still doing great in recruiting, just wish that we had room for all of them. Yes, they are 17-18 yr. old young men, but what I still want to know is, do they go to the other schools for early playing time or is the fear of competition against some of the best athletes that we have there already, play into their decision. I know that the home state schools pull at the heart strings of some of these kids, but playing for a National Championship would seem to be the main factor I would want.

Those are kind-of the same thing. I'm one of those that have NO problem w/ a kid that says early playing time is important to them... or if they want to start their Freshman year. If you want that really bad and think someone at Bama is better than you, then don't come to Bama. On the other hand, if you know the depth chart and how talented Bama players are as a whole and you committ... then you shouldn't be scared off later and decommit. JMO. Also, I didn't even open your other thread.

Through all of the ups and downs, remember this: All bias aside, we are arguably the most talented team in the country right now and we're about to land another Top 3 class (at least). That has everything to do w/ recruiting.

 

[HITIDE]

Hey Guys and Gals,

Yes, they are 17-18 yr. old young men, but what I still want to know is, do they go to the other schools for early playing time or is the fear of competition against some of the best athletes that we have there already, play into their decision. I know that the home state schools pull at the heart strings of some of these kids



ROLL TIDE,
Bama Greg

I'd say a lot of times it is "all the above" but with Clowney it has more to do with "state school" and "heart strings". Actually the 2 reasons in bold are one and the same and that is the card most rival coaches are playing..

 

[Lou_Holtz]

We are actually getting used to being #1 in recruiting.
Just remember where we used to be before CNS (according to RIVALS):

Year # 5 star # 4 star
2011 Currently #1 2 13
2010 #5 1 15
2009 #1 4 14
2008 #1 3 19
2007 #10 0 10
2006 #11 2 10
2005 #18 0 6

I'll trust Saban to get the right players....

 

[Bama Greg]

Those are kind-of the same thing. I'm one of those that have NO problem w/ a kid that says early playing time is important to them... or if they want to start their Freshman year. If you want that really bad and think someone at Bama is better than you, then don't come to Bama. On the other hand, if you know the depth chart and how talented Bama players are as a whole and you committ... then you shouldn't be scared off later and decommit. JMO. Also, I didn't even open your other thread.

Through all of the ups and downs, remember this: All bias aside, we are arguably the most talented team in the country right now and we're about to land another Top 3 class (at least). That has everything to do w/ recruiting.

VT, you got what I am saying, I think that is what got me the most, first with Calloway, then when Mitchell and Rome went to GA, it just had me wondering if Saban had lost his edge at getting the elite athletes and getting their signatures on signing day. I, for one, believe that CNS is the best recruiter, coach, and can get the job done, just was curious why we are suddenly having trouble locking down these kids lately.

Everyone, questioned me about how we could have a top five class and CNS be losing his edge, they did not understand the question that I was asking. Thanks for helping me clarify that.

ROLL TIDE,
Bama Greg

 

[Drewy26]

I try not to get too hung up on recruiting, but inevitably I do.

Here's how I see it: CNS is going to fill his needs and there is no better evaluator of talent in the nation. Anywhere.

The kids he brings to Alabama are one positive result of his recruiting prowess, but from my perspective, it is the things he makes other schools do that is really amazing. UGA just had to waste a scholarship on a ham sandwich in a desperate attempt to get Isiah Crowell. That means for the next 4-5 years they will have a player on their team that is far below SEC caliber talent. Who made them to that? Nick Saban.

And they STILL might not get Crowell.

Auburn pushed the panic button and reverted to the new old fashioned way of doing things on the plains... we will see the results of that series of actions in the coming months. Who is responsible for this chain of events there? Nick Saban.

All over the SEC, hometown teams who in the past would have easily signed all the local talent are having to scrap and fight to keep these kids. Nick Saban again.

I am sure there are little dramas going on all over the SEC and nation of schools having to reallocate resources based on what is going on at Alabama regarding recruiting.

My philosophy is simple. Enjoy the recruiting process, don't get too hung up on the little things, and enjoy the big picture which is that as long as Nick Saban is at the helm in Tuscaloosa, we will always be in the national picture.

 

[BAMAMICH]

The above post is probably one of the best assements of the situation in SEC football today. Nick Saban+Alabama Football=Gamechanger.

When CNS came in and started to his program here you immediately SAW how it affected other programs in the SEC. UGA was on the verge of being an elite program at the time and they lost to who ... Alabama. That lost imo help changed the landscape of the UGA program and got BAma a foothold in GA recruiting, especially in Atlanta.

You see the same scenarios happen with the Barn, Tenn, and Florida (which very few thought that program would hit the brakes anytime soon)

We've even gotten elite talent from all of the surrounding states including LA, which most would agree that's a feat in itself.

So I really don't worry about what other programs are doing because it's been proven that other programs are more worried about what BAMA and CNS is doing. RTR

 

[Tide Warrior]

I guess I am still confused by what the OP is getting at because to me his statement or concern just shows a lack of understanding of the inter workings of recruiting. This is SEC football and it is not easy to go into SEC power states like GA and take players. Mitchell we had a legit shot at but he decided for the home team. Rome we never had a shot at. Go look at this year and last how many top GA players we have been in the running for compared to years back. Go look at the top undecided players in the country that are still considering us. The fact that we have come this far in such a short time is incredible.

Now look at where we are nationally. We just went into the backyard of OSU a got 2 of the top players out of Ohio. We also have 2 of the top 2 players out of FL. Also a player from California, Austrailia, TN, GA, LA, and MS. And lets not forget that last year we got top players out of VA, MD, and SC along with 3 players from Texas. BTW 11 of our 20 commits coming in right now were either on the Army or Under Armor All American teams. Just because Calloway wanted to play RB and we want him as a LB is not a concern about him decommiting.

What some fail to understand it is one thing to win the recruiting battle in AL but when you start going out and plucking the better players from neighboring states and throughout the country it is not that easy. Try selling a kid from Ohio that UA is a better program than OSU. Texas only has top classes because of instate talent not because CMB goes out of state the same probably goes for Fl schools. CNS is now going head to head behind enemy lines. Coaches are not happy about it. You imply his edge may be gone but if that was the case why is CMR offering 2-1 deals to keep their best instate players and why is CSS at USC shadowing JC to keep him instate, because they know the ability of CNS and see that he his very dangerous. The addition of Rumph for his ability to recruit the Carolinas and Stoutland for south Florida has to be even a greater concern for rival coaches now. We are recruiting areas thanks to CNS that we never could get in the door now people are inviting us in. We may not get JC this year, but do not think that USC has not had to do everything they could to keep him.

The recruiting has been fun but it is only going to get better in the future. We will be recruiting across the nation for the best, but with that comes let downs on a few we miss or stress waiting to see if we land them. Decisions for these players will not come quick like it would for most instate recruits, and fans get nervous but that is what makes it fun. We will never land the top 20 players in one class we will have a shot and may only end up with 5-7 but that is amazing when you consider how many schools are recruiting the same players.

 

[Relayer]

When you have a coach who is widely recognized as one of the best coaches and best recruiters in the business and you question whether he has "lost his edge" you are going to have your perspective strongly questioned (if not your sanity challenged). It's not really a matter of just ruffling our feathers.

As Alabama's position, once again, on the top of the football world becomes more widely recognized and strengthened, Saban will widen his net of (cherry-picking) potential recruits around the country. This will inevitably lead to some very close wins/losses of top blue chip talent. Remained focused on the overall picture. It's a beautiful thing!

 

[Crimson Surfer]

The problem is that after Mitchell committed to UGA there was an unbelievable melt down all across the Bama forums. It seemed that an inordinate amount of disgruntled Bama fans and even some not so incognito barners that came out bashing Bama recruiting. The amount of sniveling and teeth gnashing was unbearable to us seasoned recruiting followers. Especially when Bama has one of the best recruiting classes in the country and is likely to finish strong.

Unfortunately your post came off as more of the same inexplicable complaining and we were not having it on this board. We often say on Tide Fans it is not what you say but how you say it. Not to mention that post just seemed to be an open invite for a back and forth debate between both sides of the issue.

 

[marcusroby]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with recruiting as long as you continue add depth to positions of need. We have to remember these kids want to win but often their first priority is playing time so they can get to the league.

 

[CDsdad]

Not that a comparison is called for, but JMO.

We should never forget that Bama and specifically Coach Bryant are one of, if not the primary reason, the NCAA instituted recruiting scholarship limitations in the first place. I remember being a kid and seeing players that would have started and maybe even have been All-Americans at another school, playing second string for Coach Bryant. Most players then wanted to play for the best TEAM and COACH, and Bama was where that was at. Coach Bryant set the modern standard in recruiting AND in extracting every ounce of potential from his recruits whether they were 5 star or not AND in preparing them for the next level. Bama had a pipeline to the NFL in the 60s and 70s that dropped off a little in the 80s and moreso in the 90s and early 00s.

I believe CNS also has the ability to not only recruit the best players to best fill the needs of the team but also to extract their fullest potential, IF they buy into The Process. CNS will prepare them for the next level of football better than any coach in the country, and the ones that realize that are usually the ones CNS gets, I believe. These players are the ones that result in multiple BCS champioships. We are also seeing the Bama pipeline of NFL ready players opening up more, and I predict it won't slow anytime soon.

Reality is most 4-5 star recruits ultimately have the NFL (money) as their goal and not necessarily winning BCS championships. Some of these recruits therefore perceive immediate playing time as their fastest route to the NFL (money), and will take what they percieve to be the fastest and easiest route, regardless of what type of player they are when they get there. I'm not trying to put anyone down. I just think this is part of the reality of recruiting today vs 30-40 years ago.

I'll have faith in CNS. His track record is pretty good.

 

[MOAN]

Some kids only reason for going to college is to play football. So playing right off the bat as a freshman is very crucial to their choice. Some kids have poor families and long travels to see them play can be a hardship on the family so they spurn their first love for the home girl. Some kids are wooed by incentives from boosters. There is no way to get into every kids head and see what he is thinking, impossible. But if you can stay at the top of the recruiting heap year after year you are gonna have the talent to win if everything else falls into place. This will be what, the fourth year in a row Bama will be in the top 5 in final recruiting classes? Coach Saban is doing a bang up job for Bama no worries there.

 

[rolltide1982]

the way i feel about kids commiting the changing their mind is "bye", if you're scared of a having to deal with the top talent in the country then you dont need to be playing for us. There are plenty of outstanding atletes at the capstone and many more coming to the HOLY LAND who aren't afraid of the action. All I can say to them is "SEE YOU ON THE FEILD".

 

[CapstoneGrad06]

The problem is not many people follow recruiting until this time of year. With schools like Alabama or Texas, they've already filled up most of their class 5-6 months before NSD. People like to see the pizazz at the end of a recruiting cycle. But Alabama is about to land its four straight top five class. I don't understand why anyone would be questioning how Coach Saban does things.

 

[Bama Greg]

I guess I am still confused by what the OP is getting at because to me his statement or concern just shows a lack of understanding of the inter workings of recruiting. This is SEC football and it is not easy to go into SEC power states like GA and take players. Mitchell we had a legit shot at but he decided for the home team. Rome we never had a shot at. Go look at this year and last how many top GA players we have been in the running for compared to years back. Go look at the top undecided players in the country that are still considering us. The fact that we have come this far in such a short time is incredible.

Now look at where we are nationally. We just went into the backyard of OSU a got 2 of the top players out of Ohio. We also have 2 of the top 2 players out of FL. Also a player from California, Austrailia, TN, GA, LA, and MS. And lets not forget that last year we got top players out of VA, MD, and SC along with 3 players from Texas. BTW 11 of our 20 commits coming in right now were either on the Army or Under Armor All American teams. Just because Calloway wanted to play RB and we want him as a LB is not a concern about him decommiting.

What some fail to understand it is one thing to win the recruiting battle in AL but when you start going out and plucking the better players from neighboring states and throughout the country it is not that easy. Try selling a kid from Ohio that UA is a better program than OSU. Texas only has top classes because of instate talent not because CMB goes out of state the same probably goes for Fl schools. CNS is now going head to head behind enemy lines. Coaches are not happy about it. You imply his edge may be gone but if that was the case why is CMR offering 2-1 deals to keep their best instate players and why is CSS at USC shadowing JC to keep him instate, because they know the ability of CNS and see that he his very dangerous. The addition of Rumph for his ability to recruit the Carolinas and Stoutland for south Florida has to be even a greater concern for rival coaches now. We are recruiting areas thanks to CNS that we never could get in the door now people are inviting us in. We may not get JC this year, but do not think that USC has not had to do everything they could to keep him.

The recruiting has been fun but it is only going to get better in the future. We will be recruiting across the nation for the best, but with that comes let downs on a few we miss or stress waiting to see if we land them. Decisions for these players will not come quick like it would for most instate recruits, and fans get nervous but that is what makes it fun. We will never land the top 20 players in one class we will have a shot and may only end up with 5-7 but that is amazing when you consider how many schools are recruiting the same players.

TW, you are right, I never really thought about how hard it is to pull an out of state kid away from his homestate school, but looked at how USCw, Notre Dame, Texas seem to do it year in and out, we too, were starting to do it on a regular basis, but then all of a sudden the Calloway switch, then Mitchell, and yes, I know Rome was a longshot, that is why I asked the simple question:

1) Is Saban losing his edge at closing the deal

2) Are the recruits scared that early playing time is not a real possibility because of the depth at Bama

Believe me, I know that we are in great shape, I just wanted to keep the coffers full so all we have to do year in and out is just plug in, reload, and keep on keeping on. But thanks for all the input, I know it is hard to pull out of state kids, just wish we did not have to fight so hard to keep them once they commit, hopefully we can get an early signing period one day, that way you can move on to the other recruits without having to keep an eye on the ones that pledged to you early.

Thanks everyone for your opinions!!!!!!

ROLL TIDE
Bama Greg

 

[Cr1msoN4life]

Before Saban's arrival we hadn't had a top 10 recruiting class in almost 20 years,,,,,Since his arrival we havn't had one worse than 5th, with 2 widely recognized number 1 recruiting classes, and are working on another number 1.

Your entire post is not logical ( putting it nicely), hence why I ask, " why the asinine post"..

I would not trade Nick Saban for ANY coach in the world PERIOD!