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Russia invades Ukraine XV

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crimsonaudio said:
Yeah, not the first video like that I've seen. Seems like an expensive way to take out single soldiers, but what a truly terrifying way to go.
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Once when I was a platoon leader in the 101st, I got up at 0300 to "troop the line" (check on the lads). I stood up, stepped away from my hooch to take a leak. When I got back to my hooch, a huge figure loomed out of the dark. The battalion commander Lieutenant Colonel John J. Maher had played football at Georgia. Big guy. Extraordinarily fit. He was out for a stroll, wearing PVS-5 night vision goggles "LT ____, where's your rifle?"
"Over there leaning against that tree."
"Keep it on you."
"Yes, sir."
Then he vanished.

35 years ago and I remember that like it was yesterday and the sound wisdom he taught me. Never get separated from your rifle.
 
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Tidewater said:
Once when I was a platoon leader in the 101st, I got up at 0300 to "troop the line" (check on the lads). I stood up, stepped away from my hooch to take a leak. When I got back to my hooch, a huge figure loomed out of the dark. The battalion commander Lieutenant Colonel John J. Maher had played football at Georgia. Big guy. Extraordinarily fit. He was out for a stroll, wearing PVS-5 night vision goggles "LT ____, where's your rifle?"
"Over there leaning against that tree."
"Keep it on you."
"Yes, sir."
Then he vanished.

35 years ago and I remember that like it was yesterday and the sound wisdom he taught me. Never get separated from your rifle.
Click to expand...
Good lesson there.

I've seen a couple of these where the soldiers were armed, but hitting a quickly moving drone with the adrenaline drop isn't easy.
 
TIDE-HSV said:
Another Don Hill series...
Hill I

Hill II

Hill III
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That third installment regarding spoofing GPS signals, jamming radar, etc. is very interesting. It's a real technological cat and mouse game over there and I suspect the US and China (in particular) are learning a lot from this 'real world testing'.

War has never been attractive, but this modern warfare we're seeing is particularly terrifying.
 
crimsonaudio said:
Yeah, not the first video like that I've seen. Seems like an expensive way to take out single soldiers, but what a truly terrifying way to go.
Click to expand...
Drones are easy to shoot down: the are delicate electronics in a non armored container. It seems like a good 12 gauge at close range or a burst of 5.56/7.62 could keep a drone at bay.
I wonder if we will get EMP type small arms to take out small areas of electronics? You could aim an EMP type weapon at your target or targets and take out drones, the controllers, infantry tech like night vision or GPS.
 
BamaFlum said:
Drones are easy to shoot down: the are delicate electronics in a non armored container. It seems like a good 12 gauge at close range or a burst of 5.56/7.62 could keep a drone at bay.
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How many soldiers carry shotguns?

Honest question - have you ever fired an automatic weapon before? Some have, most haven't. It's called spray-n-pray for a reason...
 
Bamaro said:
Is it possible to combine automatic weapons with something like bird shot?:unsure:
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Anything is possible, but it's highly impractical as those rounds are unlikely to do the damage needed to stop a human.

This is a tech problem - igniting gun powder in order to propel a hunk of metal down a tube isn't likely to be a realistic/reliable solution.

This is why I say this kind of modern warfare is terrifying - this is the first time this level of tech has taken on a such a massive role in warfare. Until recently, tech has aided conventional warfare - aiming, precision, detecting enemies, etc. This is new and will require new solutions. The widespread availability of high-end technology has forever changed what wars will look like.
 
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crimsonaudio said:
Anything is possible, but it's highly impractical as those rounds are unlikely to do the damage needed to stop a human.

This is a tech problem - igniting gun powder in order to propel a hunk of metal down a tube isn't likely to be a realistic/reliable solution.

This is why I say this kind of modern warfare is terrifying - this is the first time this level of tech has taken on a such a massive role in warfare. Until recently, tech has aided conventional warfare - aiming, precision, detecting enemies, etc. This is new and will require new solutions. The widespread availability of high-end technology has forever changed what wars will look like.
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War continues to evolve on the back of our technological revolution. Human behavior has basically made incremental changes...the technology used in the worst of that behavior is terrifying indeed.
 
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Tidewater said:
Russian soldier trying to hide from a killer drone behind a small farm trailer. The drone operator keeps circling and the Russian keeps circling, trying to keep the trailer between him and the drone. Eventually, the Russian soldiers just gives up and gets killed.
I was thinking while watching, "If only there was a device that let you send a projectile at a target beyond arm's reach." (The Russkii had no weapon on him. Big no-no.)
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This is similar to a video I posted a few weeks ago. I took the video down because there was profanity in the attached article. In that video, the soldier had a pistol, but he couldn't hit the drone. I suspect it's pretty hard to down a drone with a pistol. He, too, was eventually killed by the drone.
 
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crimsonaudio said:
Anything is possible, but it's highly impractical as those rounds are unlikely to do the damage needed to stop a human.

This is a tech problem - igniting gun powder in order to propel a hunk of metal down a tube isn't likely to be a realistic/reliable solution.

This is why I say this kind of modern warfare is terrifying - this is the first time this level of tech has taken on a such a massive role in warfare. Until recently, tech has aided conventional warfare - aiming, precision, detecting enemies, etc. This is new and will require new solutions. The widespread availability of high-end technology has forever changed what wars will look like.
Click to expand...
Actually I was referring to stopping a drone. Just wondering if that would be a practical application.
 
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crimsonaudio said:
How many soldiers carry shotguns?

Honest question - have you ever fired an automatic weapon before? Some have, most haven't. It's called spray-n-pray for a reason...
Click to expand...
The US carried 12 gauge shotguns in the Great War. When I was in the infantry, we still had some shotguns in the arms room.
As for "spray and pray," it dependens. A submachine gun that fires from the open bolt position (PPShK, Uzi) is pretty inaccurate. A closed bolt SMG like an MP-5 is much more accurate.
A belt-fed machine gun on a tripod and a pintle and a T&E mechanism is very accurate. Even pretty accurate in bipod mode, at least the first round. After that, the gun jumps around a bit, but that is by design. You do not want the entire burst to hit the exact same spot. You want round 2 and 3 and 4 to hit slightly off round 1. You can hit the guy you are aiming at, and the next few rounds will hit the guys near him.

To address drones, I would say 12 gauge shotgun with bird shot would do, depending on the size of the drone.
 
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crimsonaudio said:
How many soldiers carry shotguns?

Honest question - have you ever fired an automatic weapon before? Some have, most haven't. It's called spray-n-pray for a reason...
Click to expand...
I thought there was at least one shotgun per squad and/or platoon? I know there are combat shotguns especially useful in urban combat.

Yes, I used to be pretty efficient with an AR-15 back in the day. Shot 36-40 when I was ROTC when I was training.

One thought I had was drone on drone warfare. Use AI to program small drone killers. They could fly close support to a squad and kamikaze other drones. Not sure the cost but I could see platoons having dedicated units to provide drone support.

Wow this can get complicated real fast!
 
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Tidewater said:
The US carried 12 gauge shotguns in the Great War. When I was in the infantry, we still had some shotguns in the arms room.
As for "spray and pray," it dependens. A submachine gun that fires from the open bolt position (PPShK, Uzi) is pretty inaccurate. A closed bolt SMG like an MP-5 is much more accurate.
A belt-fed machine gun on a tripod and a pintle and a T&E mechanism is very accurate. Even pretty accurate in bipod mode, at least the first round. After that, the gun jumps around a bit, but that is by design. You do not want the entire burst to hit the exact same spot. You want round 2 and 3 and 4 to hit slightly off round 1. You can hit the guy you are aiming at, and the next few rounds will hit the guys near him.

To address drones, I would say 12 gauge shotgun with bird shot would do, depending on the size of the drone.
Click to expand...

I would probably recommend 4 shot or swan shot. Bird shot would lose terminal velocity pretty quickly.
 
BamaFlum said:
One thought I had was drone on drone warfare. Use AI to program small drone killers. They could fly close support to a squad and kamikaze other drones. Not sure the cost but I could see platoons having dedicated units to provide drone support.
Click to expand...
I mean, even a shotgun isn't helpful if the enemy can build thousands, millions of AI driven drones. They could release a thousand drones to attack a group of soldiers and only a handful have to detonate on target to do tremendous damage.

Those drone video are terrifying as it appears that more often than not the drone wins the encounter - and that's 1:1. Wait until some starts releasing these things at a 2:1 ratio (or greater)...
 
crimsonaudio said:
I mean, even a shotgun isn't helpful if the enemy can build thousands, millions of AI driven drones. They could release a thousand drones to attack a group of soldiers and only a handful have to detonate on target to do tremendous damage.

Those drone video are terrifying as it appears that more often than not the drone wins the encounter - and that's 1:1. Wait until some starts releasing these things at a 2:1 ratio (or greater)...
Click to expand...
That’s why I mentioned dedicated drone killers or drone units and why I said this gets complicated real fast. Your enemy releases a bunch of killer drones against your position so you counter with your own drones.
This new warfare is terrifying and we knew it was coming. Now you may never encounter your enemy, just their robot minions.
 
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