State Flag Comes Down at Ole Miss

[dvldog]

then i guess the state will step in and quash this move by ole miss.

Doubtful. That would cause more controversy. Easier to do nothing.

 

[tide power fan]

wow, you are reading a lot into this that looking back I never typed

all I said was that the flag = hate, which it very, very clearly does. I made no other comment

the flag =hate, I think that is strong wording by you, most people who fly the flag is because of history. But haters or going to hate

 

[ValuJet]

Doubtful. That would cause more controversy. Easier to do nothing.

^^ This.

People will gripe and moan (I promise you) but they will get over it. I'd be surprised if the governor even comments.

 

[92tide]

the flag =hate, I think that is strong wording by you, most people who fly the flag is because of history. But haters or going to hate

based on the nonsense i see fairly regularly in georgia, i would disagree with this. im not saying there aren't folks who fly it because of history, but [at least to me] its usually very obvious why most folks who fly that flag are flying that flag

 

[mittman]

This can't end well. I doubt the student's and faculty have thought through possible implications. Those driven by emotion, and like grandiose meaningless shows usually don't.

 

[mittman]

^^ This.

People will gripe and moan (I promise you) but they will get over it. I'd be surprised if the governor even comments.

He will be required to comment. No way the media allows a pass.

 

[92tide]

This can't end well. I doubt the student's and faculty have thought through possible implications. Those driven by emotion, and like grandiose meaningless shows usually don't.

i think vj is correct. the flag will stay down, and after the initial furor every one will get over it and move on.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

none of that matters

what matters is that in 2015 the confederate flag is a symbol of hate and absolutely nothing else.

I love how an atheist who basically thinks beauty is in the eye of the beholder can impose his own views of OTHERS so dogmatically.

You may have a whole lot more in common with those religious bigots than you realize.

I'm just saying.

 

[Tidewater]

wow, you are reading a lot into this that looking back I never typed

all I said was that the flag = hate, which it very, very clearly does. I made no other comment

It is not so clear to me.
It does not mean hatred to me.
As I said, it stands for the right of the people to decide issues for themselves (as they did in 2001) and for the rule of law (the University of Mississippi is an agent of the state required by law to fly the state flag, which the faculty and students are now flouting by refusing to fly the state flag).

 

[selmaborntidefan]

wow, you are reading a lot into this that looking back I never typed

all I said was that the flag = hate, which it very, very clearly does. I made no other comment

But see here's where EVERYONE loses me....

the Rebel flag stands for hate. Okay I'll buy that.

The same people tell me the American one stands for freedom.

Really?

Not if you have Native American ancestry like I do.
If you're British, it's a symbol of treason.


And btw - slavery was legal under the US flag for a whole lot longer than it was the Rebel flag.

Now before the straw men come up, I don't care about the flag issue one way or the other. I think some folks are genuinely offended by it and I think a lot of blacks view this more of 'how can we shame whitey into doing what we want.' But that's fine.

I'm just amused by the argument because you cannot consistently apply it else you pretty much have to take down EVERY symbol of everything everywhere, which is ridiculous.

If you're picking and choosing then you have ceased to operate from the standpoint of neutrality and become the law yourselves.

Incidentally - while we're on the truth train - I think a certain dead civil rights leader ought to be stripped of his PhD for plagiarism - and were he anyone else he would be. But that's my beef: this isn't about the truth, it's about imposing someone else's will in another state where you don't reside (and feigning ignorance when you pretend otherwise).

 

[selmaborntidefan]

It is not so clear to me.
It does not mean hatred to me.
As I said, it stands for the right of the people to decide issues for themselves (as they did in 2001) and for the rule of law (the University of Mississippi is an agent of the state required by law to fly the state flag, which the faculty and students are now flouting by refusing to fly the state flag).

Yeah but just remember that the law ONLY applies to anti-gay bigots and white cops. Otherwise, you can arbitrarily decide who has to obey the law (kinda like the health care law exemptions).

"Nothing to see here, move along....."

 

[Tidewater]

This can't end well. I doubt the student's and faculty have thought through possible implications. Those driven by emotion, and like grandiose meaningless shows usually don't.

I wonder what would happen if the state comptroller were to withhold state funds until the University complied with the state law and put the flag back up?
Now, that would be interesting. Let's see how long the faculty's "principles" held up then.

 

[mittman]

I wonder what would happen if the state comptroller were to withhold state funds until the University complied with the state law and put the flag back up?
Now, that would be interesting. Let's see how long the faculty's "principles" held up then.

Honestly IMO that would be the right thing to do. Then hold another state referendum on changing the flag. 14 years is plenty of time to see if attitudes have truly changed, and it not be repeated voting in an attempt make the voters change. That may placate the emotions. I don't have much confidence that this is the direction they will take though.

 

[92tide]

It is not so clear to me.
It does not mean hatred to me.
As I said, it stands for the right of the people to decide issues for themselves (as they did in 2001) and for the rule of law (the University of Mississippi is an agent of the state required by law to fly the state flag, which the faculty and students are now flouting by refusing to fly the state flag).

it also stood for "the right" of people deciding to try to destroy our country so that they could continue to own people. it stood for "the rule of law" leading to state-sanctioned segregation, discrimination and the codification of white supremacy. it stood for "the right" of folks to terrorize black people as the flag was waved proudly as crosses were burned, churches were (and still are) burned, innocent people were lynched, bombed, beaten and sprayed with firehoses.

so yeah, its not so clear

 

[mittman]

i think vj is correct. the flag will stay down, and after the initial furor every one will get over it and move on.

If the media wasn't the way it is, I would probably agree. But, I can't see that happening. If that is the stance they take then they have the problem everywhere else the flag is flying. They will have a hard set fish hook.

 

[92tide]

Honestly IMO that would be the right thing to do. Then hold another state referendum on changing the flag. 14 years is plenty of time to see if attitudes have truly changed, and it not be repeated voting in an attempt make the voters change. That may placate the emotions. I don't have much confidence that this is the direction they will take though.

if i am not mistaken, there are 3 or 4 other state colleges/universities that do not fly the state flag.

 

[mittman]

if i am not mistaken, there are 3 or 4 other state colleges/universities that do not fly the state flag.

If true this does make a difference, and I was not aware of that.

That said, there is a big difference between A state university and THE state university.

 

[Jon]

I love how an atheist who basically thinks beauty is in the eye of the beholder can impose his own views of OTHERS so dogmatically.

You may have a whole lot more in common with those religious bigots than you realize.

I'm just saying.

what? I'll defer to your memory over mine for obvious reasons but;

1) when have I ever said beauty is in the eye of the beholder?

2) how does that even relate to the subject at hand? Not seeing it

 

[CrimsonNagus]

^^ This.

People will gripe and moan (I promise you) but they will get over it. I'd be surprised if the governor even comments.

He has made a comment (from the article in the first post [updated at 1:55pm]):

“Mississippians overwhelmingly voted in 2001 to adopt the current Mississippi state flag. I believe publicly funded institutions should respect the law as it is written today. It clearly states ‘The state flag shall receive all the respect and ceremonious etiquette given the American flag.’ ”

 

[Jon]

It is not so clear to me.
It does not mean hatred to me.
As I said, it stands for the right of the people to decide issues for themselves (as they did in 2001) and for the rule of law (the University of Mississippi is an agent of the state required by law to fly the state flag, which the faculty and students are now flouting by refusing to fly the state flag).

doesn't matter what it means to you, or even a small subgroup of white southerners you take a US poll, a north american poll or a worldwide one and it will mean racist hatred everywhere on the planet

just like if you took a poll of Hindu hardliners in India they will tell you emphatically that the Swastika is a symbol of hope. Might be to them but worldwide it simply isn't

the Nazi's ruined the Swastika and the KKK with some help from others ruined the Confederate flag. Wear a rebel flag shirt anywhere outside of the deep south a most people with think you a racist moron.