The Decline of the DNC III

selmaborntidefan

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The problem is that they have spent so many years living as "ANY criticism of a black person* NO MATTER HOW LEGITIMATE makes you a racist" that they are tongue-tied. It was to Biden's CREDIT that he could straddle the line and say, "Reform the police, don't defund the police" and win with people who aren't insane.

I'm always amused at the fact the average liberal Democrat can name Willie Horton but can't name the mentally lobotomized black man that Bill Clinton signed the warrant for his execution (that was carried out) on Friday and then appeared with his wife on "60 Minutes" after the Super Bowl on Sunday. (Methinks if Clinton was a Republican, we'd know that name quite well).

It is the UNWILLINGNESS to engage in nuance that hurts candidates. If one of them would go Full Seth Moulton and just say, "Nobody is checking genitals at the bathroom, but I draw the line at boys now girls competing in sports," they'd be shocked at how many people agree with them and would actually vote for them even if they disagreed with them on some issues.
On this same point, the exclusionary nature of party primaries - from a party that crowns themselves the tolerant party - doesn't help.

1) Don't pretend when Republicans hand your behind to you that they somehow had ideas the voters liked.

"I think it is fair to say that the Republicans were the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time there the last 10 or 15 years in the sense that they were challenging conventional wisdom."

Hillary tried to hang Obama for saying what was, in fact, happening in the 80s. It doesn't matter whether one likes it or not. See, he's not permitted to admit the Dems might have been on the short end somewhere.

2) Don't acknowledge being in the Senate means working with people whom you loathe.


It would be different if Biden would have said, "I signed off on Jim Crow laws in order to get health care passed," but the fact is, a lot of people in DC have bad ideas (some things we think are mainstream now will forever tag people 50 years from now as having been "wrong").

Nobody is saying "hey, it's great Stennis was a racist." But you still have to work with those you loathe.
 
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81usaf92

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It sort of feels like some Dems are slowly coming to the realization that their current strategy of taking the wrong side of every 80/20 issue isn't working, but they don't want to risk political suicide by saying so. Instead, the only thing they seem to think they can do is just sit there and wait for the GOP to implode. That sounds like a gamble to me, but one that could conceivably happen given the GOP's history and propensity to do nothing with their opportunities handed to them. No one disappoints their electorate quite the way the GOP does.
Well the thread “the decline of the GOP” was originally made because many on here believed that Trump killed the Republican Party in 2015 and there was noway in hell they were winning. However I would argue that the DNC is closer to death than the GOP because they are far too broad of a political party and they can satisfy no one.

I think a serious look at Shapiro and Beshear should be the way the Democrats should approach 2028. Stop dying on “they will be the first” candidates, “it’s their turn” candidates, and issues that aren’t major national issues.
 

2003TIDE

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they can satisfy no one.
IDK Chuck Schumer has done a pretty good job satisfiying his big money donors. What exactly are major national issues? I see a bunch of manufactured stuff meant to distract we are in the middle of a class war. While I feel like he never really had much of a chance to become president, Bernie has been right this whole time.
 

CrimsonJazz

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While I feel like he never really had much of a chance to become president, Bernie has been right this whole time.
Quick clarification: do you feel this way because he wouldn't have won the general or because he couldn't win the primary? I know a lot of "Bernie-Bros" who are ticked off to this day because Bernie allegedly got screwed in the primary.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Well the thread “the decline of the GOP” was originally made because many on here believed that Trump killed the Republican Party in 2015 and there was noway in hell they were winning. However I would argue that the DNC is closer to death than the GOP because they are far too broad of a political party and they can satisfy no one.
Well, ever since the 2006 midterms, one can easily find the declaration that the GOP has died and will never return because it's an all-white political party.

I arrived in Texas on August 19, 2001. Except for an 18-month assignment to Beale AFB, I've basically been a resident here ever since (though my road job has taken me to Boston twice, Wyoming, and now Chicago). On my first day out and about San Antonio, the newspapers were full of stories about how the 2002 governor's election was when Texas was maybe turning blue. And it was gonna turn blue forever because "as the Hispanic population increases," Hispanics are going to vote down the line Democrat like so many other immigrant classes upon arrival as well as that solid 90% of the black vote Democrats get just by existing.

Here we are now - nearly a quarter of a century later - and Democrats haven't done jack squat at turning the state blue. In 2002, Rick Perry (former Democrat himself) won office by 812K over Tony Sanchez. In 2022, Greg Abbott beat the most popular Democrat in Texas in the last 30 years (Beto O'Rourke) by 883K votes. In the elections between then and now, the Democrats have lost by 416K (in a four candidate on the main ballot race), 636K, nearly a full one million (Wendy Davis), and 1.1 million. Democrats are no closer to turning Texas blue now than they were in 2001, and yet "just wait until we turn Texas blue" is still a news story.

And when they ran Wendy Davis, they ran the national poster child for legal abortion (she'd had two), the one who got national attention for a stirring speech she gave. She began her campaign by saying that Governor Abbott - who is in a wheelchair mind you - "didn't have a leg to stand on", and her campaign pretty much peaked years before she was nominated.


I think a serious look at Shapiro
My suspicion is that Harris was going to choose Shapiro except:
1) polling showed he would not guarantee PA
2) polling showed he would cost them MI for sure
3) both

If she didn't at least consider that reality, she deserved to lose.

and Beshear should be the way the Democrats should approach 2028. Stop dying on “they will be the first” candidates, “it’s their turn” candidates, and issues that aren’t major national issues.
The thing we have no way of knowing at this point is how Beshear or Shapiro would come across nationally.

But take this one to the bank: Pete Buttigieg is going to be the 2028 nominee and when he loses because of their fixation on the first, they'll say he lost because a country that went from disapproving gay marriage by a majority in 2004 to favoring it in about ten years is unredeemably homophobic.
 
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81usaf92

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IDK Chuck Schumer has done a pretty good job satisfiying his big money donors. What exactly are major national issues? I see a bunch of manufactured stuff meant to distract we are in the middle of a class war. While I feel like he never really had much of a chance to become president, Bernie has been right this whole time.
Well for one thing, too many Democrats thought abortion was a national issue based on the mid terms but found out that it absolutely wasn’t in the general election. The only things that really matter in any general election is the economy and national defense.

Bernie is a good salesman until he has to address a specific demographic. His campaign sunk both times when he tried to win over African American voters. It goes back to the point… some issues you really need to save until you are in office. He basically lost all momentum in 2020 when he tried to convince South Carolina voters that LGBT rights are just as important as poverty in the inner city communities. It kind of shows why the Biden and Clinton candidate is the preferred choice by major donors and it’s because they know a broad message really doesn’t resonate with voters in November.
 

81usaf92

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Well, ever since the 2006 midterms, one can easily find the declaration that the GOP has died and will never return because it's an all-white political party.

I arrived in Texas on August 19, 2001. Except for an 18-month assignment to Beale AFB, I've basically been a resident here ever since (though my road job has taken me to Boston twice, Wyoming, and now Chicago). On my first day out and about San Antonio, the newspapers were full of stories about how the 2002 governor's election was when Texas was maybe turning blue. And it was gonna turn blue forever because "as the Hispanic population increases," Hispanics are going to vote down the line Democrat like so many other immigrant classes upon arrival as well as that solid 90% of the black vote Democrats get just by existing.

Here we are now - nearly a quarter of a century later - and Democrats haven't done jack squat at turning the state blue. In 2002, Rick Perry (former Democrat himself) won office by 812K over Tony Sanchez. In 2022, Greg Abbott beat the most popular Democrat in Texas in the last 30 years (Beto O'Rourke) by 883K votes. In the elections between then and now, the Democrats have lost by 416K (in a four candidate on the main ballot race), 636K, nearly a full one million (Wendy Davis), and 1.1 million. Democrats are no closer to turning Texas blue now than they were in 2001, and yet "just wait until we turn Texas blue" is still a news story.

And when they ran Wendy Davis, they ran the national poster child for legal abortion (she'd had two), the one who got national attention for a stirring speech she gave. She began her campaign by saying that Governor Abbott - who is in a wheelchair mind you - "didn't have a leg to stand on", and her campaign pretty much peaked years before she was nominated.




My suspicion is that Harris was going to choose Shapiro except:
1) polling showed he would not guarantee PA
2) polling showed he would cost them MI for sure
3) both

If she didn't at least consider that reality, she deserved to lose.



The thing we have no way of knowing at this point is how Beshear or Shapiro would come across nationally.

But take this one to the bank: Pete Buttigieg is going to be the 2028 nominee and when he loses because of their fixation on the first, they'll say he lost because a country that went from disapproving gay marriage by a majority in 2004 to favoring it in about ten years is unredeemably homophobic.
Well we also thought Edwards and Walker were going to be the new faces of their party because they looked better than their running mates too. Heck a lot of people thought DeSantis would be a major contender in the GOP. It’s hard to see where things are shifting until after the midterms. But my central point is that Democrats need to find someone who looks like Shapiro, Beshear, and Buttigieg look now in terms of temperament, policy, and charisma. Because once they trot Newsome or AOC out there then you might as well pencil in Vance as your next president.

Also i think Shapiro had higher aspirations and didn’t want to chance destroying his reputation by losing with Harris.
 
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CrimsonJazz

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Former White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre has left the Democratic Party and is now an independent, according to a press release announcing her new book, "Independent: A Look Inside a Broken White House, Outside the Party Lines."

The release from Legacy Lit, an imprint of the Hachette Book Group, said Jean-Pierre has chosen to "look beyond party lines" and is embracing "life as an independent," a decision it indicated she did not come to lightly.

Jean-Pierre, who served in the Biden administration, is somewhat vague about why she no longer identifies as a Democrat, writing that she feels the current political moment necessitates "freeing ourselves of boxes."
Publishers say that in the book, Jean-Pierre will provide a closer look into the White House as Biden stepped off the 2024 ticket due to "the betrayal by the Democratic Party that led to his decision."
 

AWRTR

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Well we also thought Edwards and Walker were going to be the new faces of their party because they looked better than their running mates too. Heck a lot of people thought DeSantis would be a major contender in the GOP. It’s hard to see where things are shifting until after the midterms. But my central point is that Democrats need to find someone who looks like Shapiro, Beshear, and Buttigieg look now in terms of temperament, policy, and charisma. Because once they trot Newsome or AOC out there then you might as well pencil in Vance as your next president.

Also i think Shapiro had higher aspirations and didn’t want to chance destroying his reputation by losing with Harris.
I don't think Shapiro was ever going to be picked. You can argue he would overshadow Harris or had aspirations too high to take a VP slot and possibly lose, but the reality is he was not the pick. Part of that was because of his religious and ethnic background.

A Jewish person that in any way supports Israel isn't getting out of the Democratic primary for president so I'm not sure where he goes after governor. He could run for a Senate seat.
 
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selmaborntidefan

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Damn, I'm old enough to remember when Democrats LOST THEIR FREAKING MINDS when members of the Trump administration wouldn't go on the record but they WOULD WRITE BOOKS and ca$h in on what they said were White House dysfunction. (And they were 100% right btw).

Now, I'm watching person after person who swore up and down that everything was perfect in Bidenville kill enough trees to make climate change worse so they can pocket some bucks. Unbelieveable.
 
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jthomas666

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Play the video, it's exactly what she said. Talk about an ivory tower, sheesh.
Reading is Fundamental

Sometimes what we actually say ends up being different from what we intended to say.

Yes, it's clear what she actually said. I'm wondering what she intended to say (that is, the broader point she was trying to make), and hoping that it was something other than what she actually said. Because what she actually said was flat out stupid on multiple levels.

This might be clearer:

I have no idea what she was trying to say when she actually said something about immigrants wiping her ass, but I sincerely hope she was not advocating actually using immigrants to wipe her ass.
 

Maudiemae

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Reading is Fundamental

Sometimes what we actually say ends up being different from what we intended to say.

Yes, it's clear what she actually said. I'm wondering what she intended to say (that is, the broader point she was trying to make), and hoping that it was something other than what she actually said. Because what she actually said was flat out stupid on multiple levels.

This might be clearer:

I have no idea what she was trying to say when she actually said something about immigrants wiping her ass, but I sincerely hope she was not advocating actually using immigrants to wipe her ass.
The video cuts off right at that point. I wonder who posted that on "X"? I always laugh at calling it "X". Elon. Good grief.
 

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