Question: The Electoral College

[TideEngineer08]

Um, she seems to be able to muster quite a popular vote, which is going to expand...

Touché

 

[Tide1986]

Um, she seems to be able to muster quite a popular vote, which is going to expand...

...which is currently 6M votes shy of Obama when he won his first term in office.

And Trump currently leads McCain's total by close to 2M votes.

 

[92tide]

Um, she seems to be able to muster quite a popular vote, which is going to expand...

if only she'd have gotten the real americans to vote for her

 

[TIDE-HSV]

...which is currently 6M votes shy of Obama when he won his first term in office.

And Trump currently leads McCain's total by close to 2M votes.

All of which means he's yet one more minority president claiming a mandate, and he's going to be more behind after all the votes are counted...

 

[Tide1986]

All of which means he's yet one more minority president claiming a mandate, and he's going to be more behind after all the votes are counted...

Regarding mandates, the overall results at the national, state, and local levels make a strong case for a mandate. Admittedly, only looking at the popular vote would not lead one to a "having a mandate" conclusion.

 

[92tide]

Regarding mandates, the overall results at the national, state, and local levels make a strong case for a mandate. Admittedly, only looking at the popular vote would not lead one to a "having a mandate" conclusion.

at the national level, the dems gained seats in both the house and senate. to whom does that give a mandate?

 

[bamachile]

If either side claims a mandate after this election cycle, they are deluded.

 

[92tide]

agreed

 

[BamaInMo1]

I didn't have time to go thru this whole thread so please forgive me if someone has already addressed this point: Do you REALLY want this country's leadership decided by half a population who is simply going to vote for the candidate/party that is going to offer more "FREE" stuff than the other party/candidate? Because that's about where we're about at in this stage of the game. I'm about to rub some people the wrong way and probably be called a racist/bigot or whatever, but if you do not have, at the very least, a high school diploma/GED and if you are reliant on the gvt for your "livelihood" because you chose to drop out of school and be a leech on society then you are too biased and uneducated to form a logical opinion on why you are going to vote for the person you cast your lot with. Don't give me all the voters rights crap because people make decisions on how educated/uneducated they want to be ( now for those wanting to nitpick what I just said: I am speaking of those who are physically and mentally able to do so and chose not to and for the record there are both D and R voters in this equation). If you cannot function on a basic educational level and have a good general use of the ENGLISH language then you likely do not have the common (or any other kind) kind of sense to vote for someone who is going to lead this country. You want to vote? Get educated and at least have a better reason than "FREE STUFF" to vote for whatever candidate you choose.

 

[Tide1986]

at the national level, the dems gained seats in both the house and senate. to whom does that give a mandate?

At the national level, the Dems should have taken control of the Senate, given the seats that were being contested, but the Dems were unable to do so.

 

[NationalTitles18]

I didn't have time to go thru this whole thread so please forgive me if someone has already addressed this point: Do you REALLY want this country's leadership decided by half a population who is simply going to vote for the candidate/party that is going to offer more "FREE" stuff than the other party/candidate? Because that's about where we're about at in this stage of the game. I'm about to rub some people the wrong way and probably be called a racist/bigot or whatever, but if you do not have, at the very least, a high school diploma/GED and if you are reliant on the gvt for your "livelihood" because you chose to drop out of school and be a leech on society then you are too biased and uneducated to form a logical opinion on why you are going to vote for the person you cast your lot with. Don't give me all the voters rights crap because people make decisions on how educated/uneducated they want to be ( now for those wanting to nitpick what I just said: I am speaking of those who are physically and mentally able to do so and chose not to and for the record there are both D and R voters in this equation). If you cannot function on a basic educational level and have a good general use of the ENGLISH language then you likely do not have the common (or any other kind) kind of sense to vote for someone who is going to lead this country. You want to vote? Get educated and at least have a better reason than "FREE STUFF" to vote for whatever candidate you choose.

Why would I think you're racist? Describes more whites I know than blacks. Just sayin'...

 

[TIDE-HSV]

At the national level, the Dems should have taken control of the Senate, given the seats that were being contested, but the Dems were unable to do so.

Um... And?

 

[Tide1986]

Um... And?

Gaining 2 seats from states you are expected to win is not something to celebrate. Losing other senate contests you should have won just compounds the issue.

 

[92tide]

At the national level, the Dems should have taken control of the Senate, given the seats that were being contested, but the Dems were unable to do so.

so what, that's hardly a case for a "strong mandate"

 

[CharminTide]

"Real America"

As American as Apple Pie? The Rural Vote’s Disproportionate Slice of Power

 

[Tide1986]

so what, that's hardly a case for a "strong mandate"

Fortunately for me, I never characterized the level of mandate. However, I did characterize the case/argument for a mandate as being strong.

 

[Tide1986]

"Real America"

As American as Apple Pie? The Rural Vote’s Disproportionate Slice of Power

Thanks...good read.

It's interesting that the author uses a 19th century definition for rural. Nevertheles, the seed for a modern definition are within his treatise:

“They had this vision of what they called the ‘yeoman farmer’: this independent, free-standing person who owed nothing to anybody, who didn’t receive any payments from the government, who didn’t live by a wage, but who could support himself and his family on a farm growing everything they needed — and that these were the people who were going to be the backbone of democracy,” said Gerald Gamm, a political scientist at the University of Rochester, describing what could be the forefathers of the rural voters who tilted this year’s election.

 

[92tide]

Regarding mandates, the overall results at the national, state, and local levels make a strong case for a mandate. Admittedly, only looking at the popular vote would not lead one to a "having a mandate" conclusion.

Fortunately for me, I never characterized the level of mandate. However, I did characterize the case/argument for a mandate as being strong.

thanks for the clarification, your first post was confusing

 

[Tide1986]

thanks for the clarification, your first post was confusing

Words are important. Everyone who knows me knows to pay attention to what I say and what I do not say.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

As far as the Electoral College, this pretentiousness that Republicans alone are the sole ones to blame for this is hilarious.

Why?

Because in 1979, it actually made it to Senate floor and went down, 51-48. The Senate was 58-42 Democrats, meaning AT LEAST NINE Democrats opposed it (and probably more since we were less extremist in both parties back then).

Better yet - guess who opposed it?

Minorities Opposing Senate Move for Abolition of Electoral College

(It won't let me copy and paste). Blacks and Jews were solidly AGAINST the abolition of the EC.


So let's please stop this utter nonsense in the light of HRC losing that this is any kind of Republican thinking or white supremacy or any other ridiculous arguments that won't change the fact that even when Bernie Madoff gets out of prison in time to vote in the 2140 Election, we'll still have the EC.

Democrats LOVED the EC when they thought Kerry was going to win in 2004.

========================


As far as mandate, well........what EXACTLY is a mandate and for what?

LBJ got a mandate to protect us from nuclear holocaust and sent 58,000 Americans to early graves in Vietnam.

Did Nixon win a mandate in 1972 - and if so to do WHAT exactly?

I'll grant Reagan in 1980 since he explicitly campaigned on three ideas (tax cut, increase defense spending, balanced budget) and pulled in a Senate unexpectedly.

The Democrats in 1984 said Reagan didn't get a mandate.......he only blew Mondale away by about 20 points. He lost two Senate seats but picked up 17 House seats.

What was Bush's mandate in 1988? To say the Pledge of Allegiance and not let Willie Horton out of jail perhaps? Accomplished!!!!

They said Clinton had a mandate in 1992 - I would say it was more of a 'negative mandate' against Bush, although Clinton made a tax cut (he lied, he raised them) central and health care for everyone (he botched it, more precisely SHE botched it) - oh, and definitely get them gays in the military!!! (he botched that, too)

What was Clinton's mandate in 1996? Some crap about building a bridge to the 21st century - while he was bombing pharmaceutical factories in Kenya to prevent being prosecuted.

The country mandate in 2000? We don't care and IT SHOWS!!!!

Obama in 2008? I think you have to say yes - even some Republicans admitted that one.

What exactly is Trump for? What mandate is there? He has a mandate to NOT be Hillary Clinton.

Accomplished. And you can't REALLY say the GOP has a mandate to work with him because the party sort of accidentally fell into power thanks to a weird election.

The only mandates in my lifetime by all stretches are Reagan in 1980, Obama in 2008, and the 1994 GOP takeover of the government when they campaigned overtly on the Contract with America.

Trump can't even be said to have a mandate to 'build a wall' since he lost the popular vote. Obamacare repeal MIGHT have a mandate.........but I figure it will be a modification at best.