The Trayvon Martin Case

[cbi1972]

Suppose these are the facts:

1) George Zimmerman was legitimately investigating suspicious behavior in his neighborhood
2) Trayvon Martin bore a passing resemblance to suspects in recent crimes (age, height, build, skin color, etc.)
3) Zimmerman tailed Martin through the neighborhood
4) Martin grew scared and fled, increasing Zimmerman's suspicion
5) Zimmerman caught up with him
6) Zimmerman and Martin got into a fight, starting with angry words, then some grabbing and pushing.
7) Both parties believe they are acting in self defense, Martin because he's minding his own business and being harassed by somebody he doesn't know, Zimmerman because he's acting as neighborhood watch, and suspicious character is behaving with belligerence.
8) Fight escalates. Martin knocks Zimmerman to the ground and hits him in the face.
9) Zimmerman shoots Martin to death.

 

[DiamondDust]

Suppose these are the facts:

1) George Zimmerman was legitimately investigating suspicious behavior in his neighborhood
2) Trayvon Martin bore a passing resemblance to suspects in recent crimes (age, height, build, skin color, etc.)
3) Zimmerman tailed Martin through the neighborhood
4) Martin grew scared and fled, increasing Zimmerman's suspicion
5) Zimmerman caught up with him
6) Zimmerman and Martin got into a fight, starting with angry words, then some grabbing and pushing.
7) Both parties believe they are acting in self defense, Martin because he's minding his own business and being harassed by somebody he doesn't know, Zimmerman because he's acting as neighborhood watch, and suspicious character is behaving with belligerence.
8) Fight escalates. Martin knocks Zimmerman to the ground and hits him in the face.
9) Zimmerman shoots Martin to death.

The guilt still falls to Zimmerman because he was told by the police not to pursue... and if he was an actual Neighborhood Watch "captain", he'd know the rules are not to pursue or carry a weapon.

 

[SimplyTide]

Suppose these are the facts:

1) George Zimmerman was legitimately investigating suspicious behavior in his neighborhood
2) Trayvon Martin bore a passing resemblance to suspects in recent crimes (age, height, build, skin color, etc.)
3) Zimmerman tailed Martin through the neighborhood
4) Martin grew scared and fled, increasing Zimmerman's suspicion
5) Zimmerman caught up with him
6) Zimmerman and Martin got into a fight, starting with angry words, then some grabbing and pushing.
7) Both parties believe they are acting in self defense, Martin because he's minding his own business and being harassed by somebody he doesn't know, Zimmerman because he's acting as neighborhood watch, and suspicious character is behaving with belligerence.
8) Fight escalates. Martin knocks Zimmerman to the ground and hits him in the face.
9) Zimmerman shoots Martin to death.

Even if all this is true, the police told him not to continue following him. He is a murder, plain and simple. Worse, he is a bigoted murderer who almost certainly killed this kid because he was black.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Agreed - this guy is a nut, but some of the other posts in this thread indicate that he is not as much an outlier as we would like to believe. There are lots of nuts just like this guy out there. And when a guy like this is out looking for trouble, would you rather be white or black?

In that specific instance I'd rather be white but in all honesty the root of the problem isn't his problem with blacks. It's his uncontrollable problem with wanting power and authority. Put him in almost any situation involving more than himself and I can almost promise there'd be problems, no matter the color of the people involved. People in this mold have a lot deeper problems than just being bigots. They are mentally screwed up across the board.

 

[SimplyTide]

How do you propose to change this? Seems to me there's been racists and bigots all throughout history. This is nothing new; no law or punishment will change a zealot.

I don't have an answer, but that doesn't mean that we can't or shouldn't call out this behavior when we see it. If we stigmatize it enough, we will see it slide into history.

 

[SimplyTide]

In that specific instance I'd rather be white but in all honesty the root of the problem isn't his problem with blacks. It's his uncontrollable problem with wanting power and authority. Put him in almost any situation involving more than himself and I can almost promise there'd be problems, no matter the color of the people involved. People in this mold have a lot deeper problems than just being bigots. They are mentally screwed up across the board.

Good point.

 

[gmart74]

BTW, I'd argue that the biggest threat to young black males are other young black males. Just check out al.com or any other large metro paper for proof. Both are absolutely senseless and sad. I wish there was a way to solve both issues but either will change in my lifetime.

There are ways, but those ways are against the principles of this nation and would never be implemented in a society such as ours.

 

[DiamondDust]

In that specific instance I'd rather be white but in all honesty the root of the problem isn't his problem with blacks. It's his uncontrollable problem with wanting power and authority. Put him in almost any situation involving more than himself and I can almost promise there'd be problems, no matter the color of the people involved. People in this mold have a lot deeper problems than just being bigots. They are mentally screwed up across the board.

Which goes to what I've wondered all along - If he's such a law enforcement advocate, why isn't he a police officer?

There's got to be a good reason.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Profiling is a valuable and oft-used tool for law enforcement.

Racial profiling is a different story...

 

[SimplyTide]

Which goes to what I've wondered all along - If he's such a law enforcement advocate, why isn't he a police officer?

There's got to be a good reason.

Most of the men who I have met who fit that description ARE cops.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Which goes to what I've wondered all along - If he's such a law enforcement advocate, why isn't he a police officer?

There's got to be a good reason.

Probably can't pass the psych exams.

 

[twofbyc]

Which goes to what I've wondered all along - If he's such a law enforcement advocate, why isn't he a police officer?

There's got to be a good reason.

I'd bet money he couldn't pass the preliminary testing they give to most all PO's these days. He obviously has issues with authority.

 

[TheAccountant]

I don't have an answer, but that doesn't mean that we can't or shouldn't call out this behavior when we see it. If we stigmatize it enough, we will see it slide into history.

Not a chance but I won't stop you from trying.

 

[jthomas666]

Even if all this is true, the police told him not to continue following him. He is a murder, plain and simple. Worse, he is a bigoted murderer who almost certainly killed this kid because he was black.

I really don't want to muddy the issue with race.

A guy left the safety of his car with a 9mm pistol, confronted an unarmed kid, and instigated some sort of altercation that resulted in the kid's death.

 

[cbi1972]

Even if all this is true, the police told him not to continue following him. He is a murder, plain and simple. Worse, he is a bigoted murderer who almost certainly killed this kid because he was black.

You have a strange view of causation, bigotry, and murder if you reach that conclusion about this set of hypothetical facts.

 

[Rasputin]

You have a strange view of causation, bigotry, and murder if you reach that conclusion about this set of hypothetical facts.

Agenda...

 

[rizolltizide]

I think Trayvon Martin was murdered by an overzealous azzhat. But that's just me.

 

[Rasputin]

I think Trayvon Martin was murdered by an overzealous jihadist Muslim terrorist burrito maker. But that's just me.

FIFY

 

[crimsonaudio]

I really don't want to muddy the issue with race.

A guy left the safety of his car with a 9mm pistol, confronted an unarmed kid, and instigated some sort of altercation that resulted in the kid's death.

Perfectly stated.

 

[rizolltizide]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/u...-killing-of-florida-teenager.html?_r=1&ref=us



weird

Not weird at all. These jackwads in their neighborhoods, specifically deed-restricted ones, do this kind of crap all the time. All the time. They're the devil, man. They think they are the enforcers of good. And the fact that it was a "gated" community means nothing. 75%+ of all the neighborhoods built down here over the last decade are "gated". 90%+ of them don't use the gates.