The 'Warning' about the financial meltdown

[Bamaro]

So you're saying this economic meltdown and spending beyond our means is the fault of women? Nicely played.

In this case we should have listened to the woman instead of the 3 stooges.

 

[dayhiker]

Not at all. You brought up the origanal sin, so I assumed you meant Eve eating the apple. There are some who like to bring up past sins of white men from way before our lifes began and think we should still pay for them. So I was just playing along those lines by saying I didn't want them blaming women today for Eve's origanal sin. Sorry if I didn't expain it well enough in the first post.

I knew what you meant. I was playing the woman comment off a bit of a stereotype, ala, shopping....I was reaching and it didn't quite work

 

[swoop10]

I knew what you meant. I was playing the woman comment off a bit of a stereotype, ala, shopping....I was reaching and it didn't quite work

I was hoping that was the direction you were going but sometimes it is hard to know.DT_gun:

 

[RhodeIslandRed]

These are nice issues put forth. I would add that no one really seems interested in reregulating the markets. Obama's plan of stopping bonuses and attack predatory lending is short of reregulating the market or abolishing derivatives and the like. The game really doesn't end, does it? Then our intermediate term future has been cast.

 

[markenk]

PBS's Frontline has a very good show out now showing how congress was warned back in 98 about the scam being perpetrated on the investing public by wallstreet. Brooksley Born, who was chairman of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, after being stonewalled by Greenspan, Ruben & Summers, took her concerns to congress but was ignored as Greenspan, Ruben & Summers routinely dismissed her concerns. There was a document called the Concept Release which strongly warned that the complete lack of regulation on OTC derivatives was setting up the economy for fraud leading to the financial crash. While Born tried to shed light on what was referred to as a 'dark market' she was blocked every step of the way and warned by the likes of Greenspan, Ruben & Summers not to release the Concept Document.
Another striking case how we were warned but ignored the warnings.

FRONTLINE: the warning | PBS

Before you dismiss the need for meaningful regulations you should follow the above link or watch the show. Wallstreet is ruled by greed that knows no bounds.

Another interesting point of view on all this is the relatipnship between greed/corruption and our own culture. For example, if things like this happen in Japan, those who are responsible (or at least Greenspan, Ruben & Summers in this instance) would commit a suicide because they have brought a shame to their family and doomed their country. But in US, this is looked at as a brilliant move and sometimes celebrated by some, while the likes of Greenspan and co walk free.

We can point fingers and say who's the bad guy and what caused all this, but one can also say that it is the product of our own culture and that things like this will continue to happen given that there is an opportunity.

 

[NYBamaFan]

These are nice issues put forth. I would add that no one really seems interested in reregulating the markets. Obama's plan of stopping bonuses and attack predatory lending is short of reregulating the market or abolishing derivatives and the like. The game really doesn't end, does it? Then our intermediate term future has been cast.

Because they are still making mountains of money. Only when the American people pull all of their money out of the banks will they consider it again. That is what prompted those regulations in the 1930s...

 

[Bamaro]

I would add that no one really seems interested in reregulating the markets. Obama's plan of stopping bonuses and attack predatory lending is short of reregulating the market or abolishing derivatives and the like. The game really doesn't end, does it? Then our intermediate term future has been cast.

The financial lobby is huge. They are paying a lot to keep regulation out.

 

[RhodeIslandRed]

Because they are still making mountains of money. Only when the American people pull all of their money out of the banks will they consider it again. That is what prompted those regulations in the 1930s...

Must the President and Congress wait that long? If they do, there won't be any money left for the people. It's not that they don't know there is a problem. It is another sign that speaks volumes about what Washington is about. They are not about representing its citizens. There is something wrong.

 

[RamJamHam]

relevance?

Well, I assumed that if we were going to blame George W. for everything that happened or didn't happen on his watch that we would be logically consistent with other presidents.

 

[gmart74]

Well, I assumed that if we were going to blame George W. for everything that happened or didn't happen on his watch that we would be logically consistent with other presidents.

W was too busy making Katrina to be blamed for anything else. Kanye told me so.

 

[NYBamaFan]

Must the President and Congress wait that long? If they do, there won't be any money left for the people. It's not that they don't know there is a problem. It is another sign that speaks volumes about what Washington is about. They are not about representing its citizens. There is something wrong.

No, but they will. They are doing things that make it look like they are addressing these banking problems, but they have not touched the real issues that led to the collapse...

 

[Bama323]

I know you are mainly digging at Bodhi here but capitalism is just the machine. The greed and corruption come from man. Get rid of the greedy and corrupt men and capitalism will work just fine.

Exactly. Alot of people keep acting like Capitalism is the problem. Well, Capitalism is not perfect, but it's the best alternative. Unfortunately, with a Capitalistic system, there will be times of "adjustment" when things get out of balance. This is actually a GOOD thing, even though right now it doesn't seem that way. If we went to an alternative system, then we would still have the few people in power that are enjoying all the perks, but no one else would have squat.

 

[TexasBama]

I've been watching this tonite and have concluded that Greenspan, Summers, et. Al. Need to have their ....... heads hacked off.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[RhodeIslandRed]

I've been watching this tonite and have concluded that Greenspan, Summers, et. Al. Need to have their ....... heads hacked off.

Agreed. Listening to Greenspan now, you'd think that living in Washington automatically robs you of 50 IQ points. He knew better all along.

Exactly. Alot of people keep acting like Capitalism is the problem. Well, Capitalism is not perfect, but it's the best alternative. Unfortunately, with a Capitalistic system, there will be times of "adjustment" when things get out of balance. This is actually a GOOD thing, even though right now it doesn't seem that way. If we went to an alternative system, then we would still have the few people in power that are enjoying all the perks, but no one else would have squat.

We haven't been operating within captalistic/free market principles in quite a while. The markets have been severely distorted by gov't practices for a several decades, eg. stock market bubble, mortgage bubble, strong dollar bubble, gold price suppression, interest rate suppression, etc.

 

[Frozen Sooner]

These are nice issues put forth. I would add that no one really seems interested in reregulating the markets. Obama's plan of stopping bonuses and attack predatory lending is short of reregulating the market or abolishing derivatives and the like. The game really doesn't end, does it? Then our intermediate term future has been cast.

Believe it or not, several of the hard line deregulators have been reversing their position of late. Alan Greenspan has admitted he was completely wrong about the derivatives market, particularly the practice of selling naked credit default swaps. Judge Posner posted some analysis on his blog recently of how simply repealing Gramm-Leach-Bliley and reinstating Glass-Steagall wouldn't go nearly far enough.

Then again, any time you get one of these crises you get people from the dominant school (Chicago monetarism) fleeing to other schools that have some explanatory power (in this case, Keynsianism or in the alternative Hayekian Austrian)

 

[It's On A Slab]

I've been watching this tonite and have concluded that Greenspan, Summers, et. Al. Need to have their ....... heads hacked off.
Posted via Mobile Device

Greenspan should be hung for allowing interest rates to stay artificially low for so long. He kept blathering about a "soft landing" for our economy, when, in reality, he was shilling for the previous Administration for political reasons. We're left with the disastrous results, and mea culpas from those who should be punished severely monetarily, or sharing a jail cell with Bernie Ebers and Madoff.

 

[ValuJet]

Greenspan should be hung for allowing interest rates to stay artificially low for so long. He kept blathering about a "soft landing" for our economy, when, in reality, he was shilling for the previous Administration for political reasons. We're left with the disastrous results, and mea culpas from those who should be punished severely monetarily, or sharing a jail cell with Bernie Ebers and Madoff.

I don't know if you could get them all in our lifetime.

 

[It's On A Slab]

I don't know if you could get them all in our lifetime.

The most disgusting thing is that many of these criminals are right now complaining that their million-dollar bonuses got short-shrifted.

“Yes, as through this world I've wandered I've seen lots of funny men; Some will rob you with a six-gun, And some with a fountain pen” - Woody Guthrie

 

[Bodhisattva]

But...but...capitalism is the cure for all our ills...Bodhi told us so!!! :biggrin2:

Hmmm .... straw man argument with an added non sequitur ....... deftly played, sir.

 

[Bodhisattva]

True that the idea that everyone should own their own house is false and loaded with problems. OTC derivatives were used as a device to facilitate this by making money easily available to anyone who wanted a mortgage regardless of their credit worthiness.
Between the huge financial lobby and the repeated insistence of Greenspan, Ruben & Summers that no regulation was needed, congress chose to do nothing.

Interesting take on history. Congress hardly did nothing; Congress and the Fed created this mess. Wall Street innovations distributed this mess throughout the economy. That's the way the economic system works - it's a distrbution system. If left alone, wealth will primarily be in transit.

If a patient (economy) is injected with poison (bad government policy), don't get made at the bloodstream (economic systems) for carrying that poison to all parts of the body and causing various organ damage (housing, financial, auto industry, etc.)

Now, of course their were some shady dealings on Wall Street. And the salary structure at some failing firms is offensive. But, the core problem is with those that created this mess - the policies of Congress and the Fed.