Trump's Tariffs and Possible Trade War

[Tidewater]

Bessent must have been the 'last person in the room'. Tariffs have been a struggle between Navarro and Bessent for awhile. Probably the public argument between Musk and Navarro contributed to it also. For now, Bessent is winning. Dont trust the 90 day suspension. Trump can, and may, change his mind at any time since he deeply believes in tariffs.

I do not know much about Navarro (too lazy to look him up), but he does seem infatuated with tariffs.
Mind you, I do not think it took much to convince Trump. Navarro probably told him:
1. Tariffs generate federal revenue.
2. In the long term, if the tariffs seem to be a long-term policy, companies who want access to the American market will on-shore manufacturing and hire American workers.
3. Countries with whom we had a trade imbalance will hate it. Some of those have erected trade barriers that are unfair to Americana products.

 

[Its On A Slab]

Someone has been reading my postsvon Tidefans(besides the porn filter Roomba looking for my alleged attempts to evade the cuss-word filter).

"The old man's car keys".

From a guy @ The American Enterprise Institute. He left out the whiskey part. :

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1910022721993318780

 

[crimsonaudio]

“Trump caved” “No concessions achieved” He traded days of market volatility for years of advantages. Here is a list of countries that lowered tariffs, proposed lowering tariffs, or offered concessions because of Trump’s tariffs or threat of them: 1. Mexico: Deployed 10,000 Mexican National Guard troops to its U.S. border to help with illegal immigration and fentanyl 2. Canada: Invested 1.3 billion in border security, 10,000 in border personnel and appointed a fentanyl czar 3. Argentina: Changing laws to meet 9 out of 16 tariff requirements, pursuing free trade deal. 4. Vietnam cut tariffs on LNG (5% to 2%), cars (45%-64% to 32%), ethanol (10% to 5%). 5. Taiwan offered to cut tariffs on U.S. goods and boost imports. TSMC (private corporation) - Announced over 100 billion dollars in US investment 6. Agreed to increase investments in the U.S. and prioritize purchases of American resources to mitigate tariff impacts. 7. India is considering slashing tariffs on $23 billion of U.S. goods: electronics (20% to 10%), gems/jewelry (5% to 2%), auto parts (15% to 7%) 8. Europe: Proposed a “zero-for-zero” tariff agreement to eliminate tariffs on industrial goods, aiming to de-escalate trade tensions with the U.S. You don’t have to like the methods, but you cannot dispute the results.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1910094712679334113

 

[CrimsonJazz]

Chris Matthews on MSNBC:

"We get so much of our lumber, our two by fours from from Canada....What are we going to do? Have more lumber made in the United States now?!"

"What is our plan now...? We're going to create more wood. Is that it?!"

"Are we going to make more wood in this country because of our trade deal?! I don't think so!"

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1909966727754268917

Wood doesn't just grow on trees, you know.

 

[DzynKingRTR]

my mutual funds have now lost about a year's salary. so whatever happened yesterday did not help me one bit.

 

[REBELZED]

“Trump caved” “No concessions achieved” He traded days of market volatility for years of advantages. Here is a list of countries that lowered tariffs, proposed lowering tariffs, or offered concessions because of Trump’s tariffs or threat of them: 1. Mexico: Deployed 10,000 Mexican National Guard troops to its U.S. border to help with illegal immigration and fentanyl 2. Canada: Invested 1.3 billion in border security, 10,000 in border personnel and appointed a fentanyl czar 3. Argentina: Changing laws to meet 9 out of 16 tariff requirements, pursuing free trade deal. 4. Vietnam cut tariffs on LNG (5% to 2%), cars (45%-64% to 32%), ethanol (10% to 5%). 5. Taiwan offered to cut tariffs on U.S. goods and boost imports. TSMC (private corporation) - Announced over 100 billion dollars in US investment 6. Agreed to increase investments in the U.S. and prioritize purchases of American resources to mitigate tariff impacts. 7. India is considering slashing tariffs on $23 billion of U.S. goods: electronics (20% to 10%), gems/jewelry (5% to 2%), auto parts (15% to 7%) 8. Europe: Proposed a “zero-for-zero” tariff agreement to eliminate tariffs on industrial goods, aiming to de-escalate trade tensions with the U.S. You don’t have to like the methods, but you cannot dispute the results.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1910094712679334113

View attachment 50383

This is asinine. As the leading world power, it is imperative that we operate responsibly to maintain long-term success. Do you really think that strong-arming our allies with some trumped up mafia boss shakedowns is going to create positive outcomes for the US in the long run?

"Yeah, the bully stole their bike, broke their arm, bloodied their nose, and threatened to do the same to their brother, but at least it got the kid to give up their lunch money." Give me a break. This false bravado machismo crap is a large part of what is ruining this country.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

This is asinine. As the leading world power, it is imperative that we operate responsibly to maintain long-term success. Do you really think that strong-arming our allies with some trumped up mafia boss shakedowns is going to create positive outcomes for the US in the long run?

"Yeah, the bully stole their bike, broke their arm, bloodied their nose, and threatened to do the same to their brother, but at least it got the kid to give up their lunch money." Give me a break. This false bravado machismo crap is a large part of what is ruining this country.

I don't know what the answer is, but let's not sit here and pretend with any form of sincerity that the reason our "allies" love being our allies isn't because we've gotten into deals with them that we're on the short end of and have been for decades. I'm not saying what Trump is doing and how he's going about it is the right way, but I'm tired of being the superpower of the world and walking away from the negotiating table on the losing side of deals with countries who have nowhere near our leverage. It's time to start evening up the deals and stop being on the wrong end of them. Again, I don't know enough about how tariff's work and the overall economic impact to say one way or the other whether what Trump is doing is right, wrong or indifferent. But I do know it has been long past the time for our country to start redoing these global deals where we're the suckers. I would love being our "allies" as well if I got to be a part of the deals we make.

And by the way, there's nothing wrong with using leverage in business deals. If you think other countries don't use any leverage they have to negotiate, then you're naive or purposely denying that fact. There's absolutely nothing wrong with us doing the same to make the best deals possible for our country.

 

[crimsonaudio]

This is asinine. As the leading world power, it is imperative that we operate responsibly to maintain long-term success. Do you really think that strong-arming our allies with some trumped up mafia boss shakedowns is going to create positive outcomes for the US in the long run?

"Yeah, the bully stole their bike, broke their arm, bloodied their nose, and threatened to do the same to their brother, but at least it got the kid to give up their lunch money." Give me a break. This false bravado machismo crap is a large part of what is ruining this country.

It's business, not personal. A lot of our allies have taken advantage of the magnanimous behavior of the US.

If a friend takes advantage of your kindness, you have to either draw a line in the sand or sever the relationship.

 

[CrimsonNagus]

Lets assume you run a business and your business has a customer. Not just any customer. He buys 15% of all your purchases that you have for that year. He is single handedly the biggest contributor to your wealth in sales. Now, lets assume one day that customer calls you and leaves a voicemail that says, "Hey Jimbo, I been thinking about it and I buy a lot of stuff from you. Like a lot a lot. I mean I really do like your stuff but I just feel like I could get a better deal, you know? I got word that you let Cleetus my neighbor buy some stuff last week and you cut him a much better deal than I've ever got. How come? I mean I still want to do business with you but I just think we need to sit down and see if we can come up with something that is good for the both of us. Give me a call back." Do you think, as a smart business man, do you call back Mr. Tom? Me thinks the answer is a resounding YES!

Except, to make your analogy correctly reflect what is going on, that customer would have also said "until you give me a better deal, I will tax my own customers who buy your products an extra 50%."

Wanting to negotiate better trade deals is one thing. Using your citizens and their financial wellbeing as pawns in your negotiating tactics is another altogether and pretty scummy.

I find it interesting that only a day after some of his billionaire friends started to question his tariffs, Trump paused them. Hmmmm. Me thinks they never cared about the rest of us but, the second it really started to affect them and their billions that pause button was pressed rather quickly.

 

[AWRTR]

That’s a fair point, but I don’t think his intention is to maintain the chaos over a long period of time. I could be wrong, though. Lord knows, I’ve been wrong about Trump before.

Also, the showerhead thing is fine by me. Terrible water pressure in the shower can ruin my day.

seinfeld meme low flow shower

 

[cdub55]

Except, to make your analogy correctly reflect what is going on, that customer would have also said "until you give me a better deal, I will tax my own customers who buy your products an extra 50%."

Wanting to negotiate better trade deals is one thing. Using your citizens and their financial wellbeing as pawns in your negotiating tactics is another altogether and pretty scummy.

I find it interesting that only a day after some of his billionaire friends started to question his tariffs, Trump paused them. Hmmmm. Me thinks they never cared about the rest of us but, the second it really started to affect them and their billions that pause button was pressed rather quickly.

So to add to your part...

Who has been paying more the last few decades? I'll answer that for you...WE HAVE!

 

[jthomas666]

2. In the long term, if the tariffs seem to be a long-term policy, companies who want access to the American market will on-shore manufacturing and hire American workers.

Leading us to two critical questions:

1. What exactly is "longer term?" Between planning, training, construction, etc., around 10 years? Note: I suspect a lot of infrastructure will be needed for new manufacturing. So is it Infrastructure Week again?

2. What happens in the short term?

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Leading us to two critical questions:

1. What exactly is "longer term?" Between planning, training, construction, etc., around 10 years? Note: I suspect a lot of infrastructure will be needed for new manufacturing. So is it Infrastructure Week again?

2. What happens in the short term?

Not that Trump thinks this way, but if I'm doing what he's doing now, it has nothing to do with the long term. But everything to do with trying to redo or renegotiate unfavorable trade deals we are currently in. If it works, then great; if not, then at some point, I would have to go another route. Granted, I've admitted to not knowing enough about tariffs to know. But just on a basic level of thinking, I would not see this strategy with any long-term intentions. But rather hoping it would coerce countries to the bargaining table for renogiation.

 

[Tidewater]

Leading us to two critical questions:

1. What exactly is "longer term?" Between planning, training, construction, etc., around 10 years? Note: I suspect a lot of infrastructure will be needed for new manufacturing. So is it Infrastructure Week again?

I would guess it depends on the industry but ten years sounds about right +/-
And yes, just like when California announced that internal combustion engines could not be sold in the state after 2035 or something like that, the manager of the electrical system said they did not have the electrical infrastructure to support everyone switching to electric vehicles. Got to think about the infrastructure needed if people actually respond to the incentives the government creates.

2. What happens in the short term?

Chaos, probably. Prices of tariffed items soar. Shortages, black market. Chaos.

 

[jthomas666]

Chaos, probably. Prices of tariffed items soar. Shortages, black market. Chaos.

Cats and dogs living together...Mass Hysteria!

 

[Bamaro]

Cats and dogs living together...Mass Hysteria!

They're all gone in Springfield OH.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

I mean, it would be hilarious......

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Cats and dogs living together...Mass Hysteria!

Springfield, Ohio fast food……

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I mean, it would be hilarious......
View attachment 50408

I could get those made by a local friend of mine for $35. Maybe I need to get a phone number and get in on this deal. I could ask for a finders fee! LOL!

 

[REBELZED]

I don't know what the answer is, but let's not sit here and pretend with any form of sincerity that the reason our "allies" love being our allies isn't because we've gotten into deals with them that we're on the short end of and have been for decades. I'm not saying what Trump is doing and how he's going about it is the right way, but I'm tired of being the superpower of the world and walking away from the negotiating table on the losing side of deals with countries who have nowhere near our leverage. It's time to start evening up the deals and stop being on the wrong end of them. Again, I don't know enough about how tariff's work and the overall economic impact to say one way or the other whether what Trump is doing is right, wrong or indifferent. But I do know it has been long past the time for our country to start redoing these global deals where we're the suckers. I would love being our "allies" as well if I got to be a part of the deals we make.

And by the way, there's nothing wrong with using leverage in business deals. If you think other countries don't use any leverage they have to negotiate, then you're naive or purposely denying that fact. There's absolutely nothing wrong with us doing the same to make the best deals possible for our country.

I am perfectly fine with negotiating to benefit our country, but shouldn't the negotiation be done in good faith? Especially with long-standing allies?

And is there no middle ground between "being the suckers" and double digit tariffs out of nowhere? All the "leverage" he thought this debacle would create blew right up in his face and forced him to back down on the vast majority. Expert negotiator there...

I also have a hard time believing that, having been the world's superpower for decades, we worked our way into agreements that are completely lopsided and so utterly untenable like so many seem to want to believe. But I definitely don't claim to be an expert on our trade agreements.

Where does this paranoia originate that has people convinced we are getting reamed by everyone we associate with? Oh right, with the projection of the president who is an expert in screwing the other party in "business deals" and who assumes that everyone else is out to screw him as a result...