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Politics: VP Pick em Thread

Pence is a career politician with a solid history of promoting not just conservative values, but extreme conservative values. It would be a solid move to shore up the conservative base. Beyond that I don't know anything about the guy. Looks like a safe choice.
 
jthomas666 said:
Pence is a career politician with a solid history of promoting not just conservative values, but extreme conservative values. It would be a solid move to shore up the conservative base. Beyond that I don't know anything about the guy. Looks like a safe choice.
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do they need to shore up the conservative base? To me this move will just make moderates even more apathetic or even pushed to 3rd parties.

When you couple that with the, as of now rumored Anti-LGBT, anti choice, pro Christianity and no one else GOP Platform that is expected shortly you have to wonder if the GOP even wants to win anymore. They talk about trying to gain millennials and minorities and then double down on the policies they hate. Baffling
 
Jon said:
do they need to shore up the conservative base? To me this move will just make moderates even more apathetic or even pushed to 3rd parties.

When you couple that with the, as of now rumored Anti-LGBT, anti choice, pro Christianity and no one else GOP Platform that is expected shortly you have to wonder if the GOP even wants to win anymore. They talk about trying to gain millennials and minorities and then double down on the policies they hate. Baffling
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Given that no one knows exactly what Trump will support on any given day, the base would probably appreciate some consistency. ;)

And yes, I've heard about the platform. Apparently w/ Trump not giving a crap, Kansas SecState Kris Kobach more or less got control of the platform committee and got his John Birch on.
 
From Selma's link.

[FONT=&quot]Jackie Battley, Jan. 3, 1985:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] He walked out in the spring of 1980 and I returned to Georgia. By September, I went into the hospital for my third surgery. The two girls came to see me, and said Daddy is downstairs and could he come up? When he got there, he wanted to discuss the terms of the divorce while I was recovering from the surgery.

Not the divorce papers but how to divy up things. While she was recovering from her 3rd surgery. Pretty low down if you ask me.

Pence will cost Trump 1000s of moderate voters IMO.[/FONT]
 
ValuJet said:
To be honest, I don't think Hillary is doing much laughing at this time..
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Hillary will play the "look what he cost Indiana in business" and "look how much he hates women" and "look how much he hates Gays." And it will pull the Bernie voters that would otherwise sit or vote for Stein over to her. His own chamber of commerce hates him and he is polling at 40% in his own State for reelection. I'd be laughing if I was her, Trump and the GOP are handing her the Country on a Silver platter
 
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Jon said:
Hillary will play the "look what he cost Indiana in business" and "look how much he hates women"
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Sure, she'll be stupid enough to do the latter, at which point the comeback is, "Really? You mean like you did with your attacks on people who told the truth about your husband, who lied under oath?"


Jon said:
and "look how much he hates Gays."
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(Puts up commercial of Hillary saying she opposes gay marriage......)

Seriously, anyone gay already supporting Trump is not jumping the fence here and vice versa; Hillary and the Democrats already have a lockdown on that massive 3-4% of the electorate.

Jon said:
And it will pull the Bernie voters that would otherwise sit or vote for Stein over to her. His own chamber of commerce hates him and he is polling at 40% in his own State for reelection. I'd be laughing if I was her, Trump and the GOP are handing her the Country on a Silver platter
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Well that might be true but it has nothing to do with selecting Pence.

Let me think like a rational person here (as opposed to say, Donald Trump) and see if I can figure this out. The VP choice - despite the opinions of folks who should know better - does absolutely NOTHING in the larger equation. Nadda. Zippo. There is not some huge cache of people who "well I was for so and so BEFORE he picked X, but now I'm voting for the OPPONENT." These people do not exist other than the one in a 100,00 outlier. In fact, the CW on VP selection is that whoever you pick probably won't add up to much but (and this, I think, is Jon's argument) it better NOT hurt you. Even that is ridiculous.

Can any of you name one single race for President EVER where the person chosen for VP was the difference between winning and losing? Time's up, it's never happened. (Eagleton didn't cost McGovern in terms of losing; McGovern's irresponsibility in selection combined with the fact he was already nearly double digits behind were bigger factors).

So my suspicion is that this twofold: 1) this is Trump cozying up to the hardcore social conservative base that fears Trump is not conservative at all; 2) it may be him attempting to ensure that any potential attempt to deny him the nomination will certainly fail. Trump doesn't need someone to 'appeal to the center' given the fact his actual positions on most things (well, sort of last time I looked but may have changed in the last hour)......he has to nail down the base. This is why GHW Bush chose Indiana Senator Dan Quayle in 1988, because Bush was viewed as a moderate who needed to appease the right-wing of his party. (Of course, that begged the consultant question, "What Republican needs help carrying Indiana?").

The previous paragraph I don't actually believe. It's POLITICAL in it's thinking. I don't think Trump is politically astute enough to have thought those reasons through the way I did. Pence won't hurt the ticket in the bigger picture. The people who vote on the basis of abortion and gay marriage ON BOTH SIDES have already determined how that factors into their vote (as I've said many times, abortion is about TENTH in terms of issue importance and the hardcore activists on both sides make up 1% of the vote and cancel each other out anyway at the Executive level).

This choice will affect the perception of Trump POS or NEG in another way.......the logic/reasoning he used in making the decision. This is the ONE decision these folks make that tells us how they approach important things. We'll have to see if a bomb out of Pence's past shows up as has happened before (Dole's dealings with Gulf Oil in 76, Ferraro's husband's taxes in 84, Quayle's military record in 88, and most famously Eagleton's mental illness in 72).

People vote for the TOP of the ticket - I cannot get a lot of Democrats to realize that notion (well, a few Republicans). Lloyd Bentsen in 1988 was about as conservative as Bush and more Presidential than Quayle. But millions didn't go running for that extreme nutbag Dukakis merely to have a conservative VP, did they? It never happens.

In the bigger picture, unless something significant either blows up or Pence is a horrid public speaker, it won't amount to anything at all in the outcome.
 
So far, the NY Daily News has had the best take on the pick...

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:biggrin2:
 
Out of the supposed shortlist, Pence was likely the safest choice. I know Trump's kids were really pushing for him probably for reasons Selma listed above. I suspect if the decision had been all Trump, he would have chosen Christie or Gingrich.
 
selmaborntidefan said:
Like that could even possibly happen....
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True. No one will upstage Trump. Regardless of what one feels about Jeb!, Trump single-handedly not only defeated him, he sent him running home to his brother and mommy (at least that's the perception). At the point Ttump decided there were no further debates, there were no further debates. When has any candidate had that kind of influence over the process?
 
TheTradition said:
Out of the supposed shortlist, Pence was likely the safest choice. I know Trump's kids were really pushing for him probably for reasons Selma listed above. I suspect if the decision had been all Trump, he would have chosen Christie or Gingrich.
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It's the "find a Biden", "find a Ryan" strategy.
 
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