Question: Who was the best team that ever defeated Alabama in the regular or post-season?

saturdaysarebet

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Who was the best team that ever defeated Alabama in the regular or post-season?

Texas '64
Nebraska '71
Notre Dame '73
Penn State '86
Tennessee '98
Florida '06
Florida '08
Auburn '10
LSU '11
Auburn '13
Ohio State '14
Clemson '16
Clemson '18
LSU '19
Georgia '21
Others?
 
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CrimsonTitles

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I'm gonna have to go with 2018 Clemson. 2019 LSU gets all the love, but 2018 Clemson was the only team (other than year 1) to ever make a Saban-coached Bama team just look completely out of sorts. They were absolutely loaded on both sides of the ball, and their defense was the only unit to make Tua look human in college. I went Into that game thinking we'd win easily, but they ran us out of the building by halftime.

Say what you want about Dabo's struggles in the NIL era, but he was the only coach to build a program that could go toe-to-toe with the the greatest dynasty the sports world has ever seen, in its prime, and more than hold their own.
 
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selmaborntidefan

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LSU 2019 played the #3 overall schedule in the country.

Clemson 2018 played the #25 overall schedule AFTER facing unbeaten Notre Dame and unbeaten Alabama.

And 2019 LSU - in a head-to-head game with the other teams - absolutely manhandles the much slower, run oriented time frame.
 

selmaborntidefan

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One aspect of answering this question is to ask another obvious one: "which of these teams would win a game if they played each other?" For example, would 1971 Nebraska beat 2019 LSU in a head-to-head game?

Of course they wouldn't; it wouldn't even be close. Tom Osborne - who was the offensive coordinator of the 1971 Nebraska team - said prior to the 1984 Orange Bowl that his 1983 team would blow that one off the field offensively, it wouldn't even be close, if anyone should know, it's the guy involved with both teams.

Would 2019 LSU beat 2018 Clemson?
Well, they manhandled 2019 Clemson, didn't they?

Granted, Clemson lost 3 defensive linemen to the first round of the NFL draft. But in light of the fact that 2018 Clemson gave up 12.9 ppg and 2019 Clemson gave up 11.5 ppg (pre-championship game stats) and lost a linebacker and a corner in the first round, I'm not sure how the argument holds that 2018 Clemson's D was better than 2019, at least not that much better. The 2019 Clemson defense gave up fewer points per game (until you add the blowout loss in the final), and the stats were so close it wasn't funny.

DEFENSIVE STATS PER GAME (includes title game)
2018 Total Defense Yards: 291.5
2019 Total Yards: 288.5
2018 Pass Yards: 189.6
2019 Pass Yards: 172.3
2018 Rush Yards: 101.9
2019 Rush Yards: 116.3

18 Clemson's D was better against the run but not as good against the pass, although this includes Burrow throwing for 463 yards against them and Tua "only" 295. In other words, the 19 Clemson pass defense was better INCLUDING the Burrow game than was 2018. So I'm not sure how to make the argument 2019 LSU would not have blown 2018 Clemson off the field with the same ease. Neither year did Clemson have an even remotely challenging schedule (one ranked ACC opponent each year plus the Aggies, who were better in 18 than in 19 and the game was at Kyle Field).

And bear in mind, I haven't even touched on the offense yet.

Trevor Lawrence:
2018 - 259 for 397 (65.2%), 3280, 30 TD, 4 INT
2019 - 268 for 407 (65.8%), 3665, 36 TD, 8 INT

Of course, the immediate objection says, "But Trevor wasn't the starter early in 2018, and he went out of the Syracuse game with a concussion." True. But in light of the fact he only had TEN MORE ATTEMPTS and completed NINE of them and six were TDs, that kind of pushes that objection aside. And he had more yards per attempt, yards per completion, and yards per game, so I don't know how that can be turned into "but he got hurt in one of the games and wasn't the starter" since the adjusted stats still show he was better. The Clemson offense in 2019 had 0.9 ypg more in total offense, an insignificant difference that might be chalked up to one easier game.


This is why I'm not sold on 2018 Clemson as even being worthy of being mentioned in the same breath as the others. They, to me, are like the hyperbole that surrounds 1995 Nebraska, who wasn't even favored to win their title game but they moment they blew out the opponent became the "greatest team of all-time."

The FACT is that 2019 LSU blew 2019 Clemson off the field, and an argument can be made that the 19 Clemson team was better than the 18 Clemson team. Just because one won the title and the other didn't doesn't mean the championship team was actually better.
 
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BamaMoon

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People forget 2019 LSU almost lost to Auburn, and quite frankly we beat them if Tua was healthy. 2018 Clemson is the answer, if nothing else because it was for the championship and they absolutely destroyed us.
But isn't that the game they figured out some of our play calls, essentially knowing what was coming?

I mean, that was on us, but if that's what happened, then their dominating us wasn't about how good they really were, but how "stupid" we were to allow that to happen!
 
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81usaf92

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People forget 2019 LSU almost lost to Auburn, and quite frankly we beat them if Tua was healthy. 2018 Clemson is the answer, if nothing else because it was for the championship and they absolutely destroyed us.
The 2019 LSU game had nothing to do with Tua’s health it had everything to do with Alabama going completely brain dead in the last 5 minutes of the 2nd quarter.

And if we are going to play the “well they are excluded because they nearly lost to this team” then Clemson 2018 really looks worse since both them and Alabama shared a common opponent. Clemson needed to stop a two point conversion to beat aTm and Alabama completely annihilated aTm. And before you ask… yes Trevor Lawrence did have legitimate playing time in that game. Auburn vs LSU is almost always some weird fight like Alabama vs Auburn

I’ve been to nearly every Alabama home game since 2014 and I can 100% say that the 2019 LSU team is far and away the best team I’ve ever seen enter BDS personally. Burrow is probably only behind Daniels as the best quarterback
 
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81usaf92

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But isn't that the game they figured out some of our play calls, essentially knowing what was coming?

I mean, that was on us, but if that's what happened, then their dominating us wasn't about how good they really were, but how "stupid" we were to allow that to happen!
The fake punt and the Tua fumble are probably two of the biggest mistakes iirc
 

81usaf92

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In my lifetime

-1996 Florida
- 1999 Michigan
- 2003 Oklahoma
-2003 LSU
-2003 Georgia
-2006 Florida
-2007 LSU
-2008 Florida
- 2011 LSU
-2014 Ohio St
-2018 Clemson
-2019 LSU
-2021 Georgia
-2023 Michigan

if you twisted my arm i would probably say 2019 LSU, 2008 Florida, and 2014 Ohio State. But by far the worst whooping was 2003 Georgia and 2003 LSU.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Auburn vs LSU is almost always some weird fight like Alabama vs Auburn
I'm not quite sure how 2019 LSU beating a 9-4 Auburn by 3 is supposed to be proof they're bad but Clemson had exactly one opponent with a pulse in 2018 (aTm who was also....9-4) and beat them by 2 and they're somehow this elite all-time team.

2019 LSU played more strong, solid football teams in one calendar month (#7 Florida, #14 Auburn, and #3 Alabama) than Clemson did in two regular seasons. They had a close call against a team in the top 15 while playing two other teams with a combined record of 22-4 in the month.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Let me add something since I bring this up from time to time: the problem is that there's not "really" any such thing as the G.O.A.T. no matter how often this comes up. There's only B.O.T.T. - best of their time.

1971 Nebraska was - probably - the best college football team to take the field between 1966 and 1977. WITHIN THE CONTEXT of their time, they're great. But it gets difficult because if we're going to have an all-time Super Bowl of the best CFB teams, okay, how do you do this?

a) could 1971 Nebraska beat 2019 LSU playing under the rules of 2019?
Hell, no. It wouldn't even be close.

b) could 2019 LSU beat 1971 Nebraska playing by the rules of 1971?
maybe, maybe not, it's more likely than A is, though.

1971 Nebraska was a "run two plays, pass one" offense. Jerry Tagge threw for 2019 yards in 12 games; Joe Burrow threw for 1488 in just four games against #9 Auburn, #7 Florida, #3 Alabama, and #5 UGA. And while the "well, it was legal to hit receivers all over the field" objection might have some merit, LSU was MUCH faster - and Burrow was a 76.8% precise passer, making that defense kinda irrelevant.

If you go for "best of their time", the list is probably (by decade):
1971 Nebraska
1986-87 Miami
1996 Florida
2009 Alabama
2019 LSU
 

colbysullivan

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The 2019 LSU game had nothing to do with Tua’s health it had everything to do with Alabama going completely brain dead in the last 5 minutes of the 2nd quarter.

And if we are going to play the “well they are excluded because they nearly lost to this team” then Clemson 2018 really looks worse since both them and Alabama shared a common opponent. Clemson needed to stop a two point conversion to beat aTm and Alabama completely annihilated aTm. And before you ask… yes Trevor Lawrence did have legitimate playing time in that game. Auburn vs LSU is almost always some weird fight like Alabama vs Auburn

I’ve been to nearly every Alabama home game since 2014 and I can 100% say that the 2019 LSU team is far and away the best team I’ve ever seen enter BDS personally. Burrow is probably only behind Daniels as the best quarterback
He putters fumbled a TD away on the first drive because his ankle wasn’t 100% yet.
 

81usaf92

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I'm not quite sure how 2019 LSU beating a 9-4 Auburn by 3 is supposed to be proof they're bad but Clemson had exactly one opponent with a pulse in 2018 (aTm who was also....9-4) and beat them by 2 and they're somehow this elite all-time team.

2019 LSU played more strong, solid football teams in one calendar month (#7 Florida, #14 Auburn, and #3 Alabama) than Clemson did in two regular seasons. They had a close call against a team in the top 15 while playing two other teams with a combined record of 22-4 in the month.
Well it’s like saying “2020 Alabama has no claim to a top 10 list because they were in a shootout vs an average Ole Miss team”. I think the comparison between 95 Nebraska and 18 Clemson is accurate. Both teams are hyped to oblivion because of one game and everyone forgets their schedule and the fact that they were the underdogs going in. Ironically the 96 Florida team may have been the best team in the 90’s that no one ever gives them credit for and 19 LSU is probably the best team in 2010’s that few want to doubt too.

If we are going greatest teams of all time I don’t think 18 Clemson or 95 Nebraska really make it. 19 LSU, 20 Alabama, 01 Miami, and 08 Florida probably are. Each of them had either losses or multiple close games in very difficult schedules.
 

81usaf92

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He putters fumbled a TD away on the first drive because his ankle wasn’t 100% yet.
In November no one is 100%. But here is the kicker… why are you using “Tua was injured” vs LSU but not vs Clemson? Because he clearly was still struggling with that injury he suffered vs Georgia. Also 2 of our best defensive players were out vs Clemson.

We lost to LSU because of mistakes. Take away one and we maybe win. The fake punt by far was the worst one.

We lost to Clemson because it was just their day. We came unprepared and entitled and they came prepared and hungry. It happens. We play them again it may or may not be a different result. Clemson 2018 is a great team but no one before that game ever saw them as one of the greatest teams of all time. However many saw that Alabama team as potentially one of the greatest.
 

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