Why is Pat Dye in the College Football Hall of Fame?

[Catfish]

Probably because of all his national championships.

 

[GP for Bama]

Auburn University.....the only university to name their stadium and their field after coaches that got them on probation!

 

[Chukker Veteran]

In all sincerity, everybody needs to drop the "anti-Auburn bias" when evaluating things like this.

So what exactly did Dye do that most of his competitors didn't do? (Oh, and Dye squared off against that self-righteous Vince Dooley every year, who just happened to have a back watcher in the NCAA office - yet even UGA got probation in the 1980s so again - what exactly was not level about the playing field?)

I don't find the bolded quote above to be a winning argument, but of course, that's just my opinion.

...But none of those other coaches that you mentioned him competing against are in the hall-except Vince Dooley. You seem to justify his questionable practices by saying it was what nearly everyone was doing at the time. My opinions are not anti-Auburn. They are anti Pat Dye.

Everybody else is doing it too is not a legit defense in my opinion.

Dye left Auburn in a bad way. If I remember correctly, players under Tater Tot admitted they were paid by Dye's staff while Dye was the coach.

His greatest accomplishment at Auburn was to not get nailed for his cheating.

Barner fans love to point out Coach Bryant loved his booze. Given some of the interviews I've heard Dye give on the radio, it's my impression Dye likes his booze too, and that's putting it mildly.

 

[JBama_in_PCOLA]

As much as I dislike him, the facts show he belongs. There is no denying that.

 

[CullmanTide]

He benefited greatly from Alabama's loss of Coach Bryant and his leadership. He was a slightly better than average coach who took advantage of a down period in the SEC, particularly Alabama. Even so he won zero national titles and was anything but an innovator. He's not a Hall of Fame caliber coach, player maybe.

 

[Tide1986]

I know I get cynical sometimes, but IMO all Hall Of Fames like to have every team represented to draw fans in. Pat Dye is the best coach Auburn can produce.

Better than National Champion Gene Chizik?

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Selma- you are a great poster

And you are a wise one to note this....

and I enjoy reading your posts on this board.

Thank you, I appreciate the compliment.

But I am not sure i understand all of your defenses of Pat Dye. You gave some true facts about his career.

The OP asked why he's in the Hall of Fame; I answered the OP short answer. The short answer received a response to which I responded. That's all.

Look, Dye is not in the Bryant-Rockne-Neyland level of coaches, no. But it's like the Baseball Hall of Fame - not EVERY player is within the same zip code of Willie Mays, but that doesn't mean they don't belong.

But none of those other coaches that you mentioned him competing against are in the hall-except Vince Dooley.

But that wasn't the point, either. The allegation is that Dye paid players and that somehow this made him into something he wasn't. All I'm saying is that Dye's school was not the ONLY ONE at the exact same time doing it. I would point out the fact that Ole Miss, UGA, and Florida were all doing it and yet Dye is the only one to win four SEC titles is actually a point in his favor - in fact, it takes all the air out of the "he only won because he had bought players" argument.

You can't criticize me for responding to an allegation made without context.

You seem to justify his questionable practices by saying it was what nearly everyone was doing at the time.

But that's a two-edged sword.

But I'll tell you what: let's take out all of the coaches we KNOW were on teams that got put on probation for paying players - how about it? If you'll be consistent, I have no problem with this thing with Dye.

So we can take the following guys out for sure:

Coach Bryant - Jim Dent's book "The Junction Boys" documents Bryant having knowledge of the slush fund dispersed to pay players. He didn't directly do it (but neither did Dye....). Keith Dunnavant (who posts here on occasion) documents Bryant's minimal knowledge (citing an SI article from the 1960s) with the following quote: "I know now that we should have been put on probation...I'm not sure how many of our boys got something. I guess about four or five did. I didn't know what they got, and I didn't want to know, but they got something because they had other offers and I told my alumni to meet the competition" (Dunnavant, "Coach: The Life of Paul 'Bear' Bryant," 116-7). Or maybe John Underwood's book, "Bear: The Hard Life and Good Times of Alabama's Coach Bryant" - the first page of chapter sixteen documents Bryant saying, "At A&M, I don't know whether we would have won or not without paying players, but I'll say this: most of the kids didn't play like they got something."


If your issue is REALLY bought players then fine - we'll kick out Coach Bryant, too. And while we're at it, we can toss Barry Switzer and Gene Stallings overboard, too. Especially Stallings, in light of the fact his winning pct barely qualifies him (it's nearly 100 points under Dye's) AND he was in charge of the team when it got put on probation. Switzer was run out of town and his firing called for by influential alumni groups at OU.


And the moment you kick out Bryant and Switzer, you may as well not even have a Hall of Fame.


(Note: don't anybody write me any sanctimonious responses about "how dare you" say what I just said. What I stated has been known for awhile. I demand consistency in myself and strive to meet it. Don't pillory other folks while ignoring the problems in your own argument - that's my only point).

My opinions are not anti-Auburn. They are anti Pat Dye.

But this disingenuous since you wouldn't have posted this had he not coached Auburn.

Where's the diatribe against Lou Holtz, for example?

 

[pyro]

I do think its stupid the Dye is in a hall of fame and Pete Rose is not.

 

[Chukker Veteran]

(Note: don't anybody write me any sanctimonious responses about "how dare you" say what I just said. What I stated has been known for awhile. I demand consistency in myself and strive to meet it. Don't pillory other folks while ignoring the problems in your own argument - that's my only point).

At the risk of you calling me sanctimonious, I'm going to defend Coach Bryant and Coach Stallings.

Coach Bryant was at aTm a long time ago, it was fairly early in his career. We know what happened, every little detail.

Dye basically skated when he left Auburn, to this day we still don't know how widespread the corruption was under him. To compare Coach Bryant's Junction Days to Dye's run while at Auburn is not a fair comparison. One coach made some mistakes early in his career, and never repeated them. The other coach made his name using the teams he bought. I see a big difference, even if others want to deny it.

And then to go after Stallings...

Comparing the way Stallings left Bama on probation to how Dye left Auburn on probation? :conf2: Many think Bama was abused by the NCAA, and don't fault Stallings to the same degree that Dye can be faulted.

Stallings is a good man. So was Bryant. They both belong in the Hall of Fame. I don't think Dye deserves to be there, and that's my opinion.

 

[Isaiah 63:1]

Where's the diatribe against Lou Holtz, for example?

Okay, I'll bite. What did Lou personally do that is diatribe-worthy?

 

[jthomas666]

Okay, I'll bite. What did Lou personally do that is diatribe-worthy?

 

[RTR91]

Okay, I'll bite. What did Lou personally do that is diatribe-worthy?

Just a quick look at his Wikipedia page shows this:

Arkansas

Holtz was dismissed following a 6–5 campaign in 1983. At the time, Athletic Director Frank Broyles stated that Holtz had resigned because he was "tired and burned out", and was not fired.[SUP][7][/SUP] Broyles testified 20 years later that he had fired Holtz because he was losing the fan base with things he said and did.[SUP][8][/SUP] Holtz confirmed that he had been fired, but that Broyles never gave him a reason,[SUP][9][/SUP] although reports cited his political involvement as a major reason: controversy arose over his having taped two television advertisements from his coach's office endorsing the re-election of Jesse Helms as Senator from North Carolina at a time when Helms was leading the an effort to block Martin Luther King Day from becoming a national holiday.[SUP][10][/SUP][SUP][11][/SUP]

Minnesota

Holtz accepted the head coach job at the University of Minnesota before the 1984 season. The Golden Gophers had won only four games in the previous two seasons, but had a winning record in 1985 and were invited to the Independence Bowl, where they defeated Clemson, 20–13. Holtz did not coach the Gophers in that bowl game, as he had already accepted the head coaching position at Notre Dame.[SUP][3][/SUP] His contract included a "Notre Dame clause" that allowed him to leave if that coaching job were to become available.[SUP][12][/SUP] Years later, the NCAA placed Minnesota on two years probation for 17 rule violations, two of which were committed by Holtz during his tenure.[SUP][13][/SUP]

Notre Dame

Following an investigation in 1999, the NCAA placed Notre Dame on two years probation for extra benefits provided to football players between 1993 and 1999 by Kim Dunbar, a South Bend bookkeeper involved in a $1.4 million embezzlement scheme at her employer, as well as one instance of academic fraud that occurred under Holtz's successor, Bob Davie. The NCAA found that Holtz and members of his staff learned of the violations but failed to make appropriate inquiry or to take prompt action, finding Holtz's efforts "inadequate."[SUP][15][/SUP][SUP][16][/SUP]

South Carolina

In 2005, the NCAA imposed three years probation and reductions in two scholarships on the program for ten admitted violations under Holtz, five of which were found to be major. The violations involved improper tutoring and off-season workouts, as well as a lack of institutional control. No games were forfeited, and no television or postseason ban was imposed. Holtz issued a statement after the sanctions were announced stating, "There was no money involved. No athletes were paid. There were no recruiting inducements. No cars. No jobs offered. No ticket scandal."[SUP][20][/SUP][SUP][21][/SUP]

 

[Chukker Veteran]

Just a quick look at his Wikipedia page shows this:

That was almost too easy.

 

[Alabama22]

At the risk of you calling me sanctimonious, I'm going to defend Coach Bryant and Coach Stallings.

Coach Bryant was at aTm a long time ago, it was fairly early in his career. We know what happened, every little detail.

Dye basically skated when he left Auburn, to this day we still don't know how widespread the corruption was under him. To compare Coach Bryant's Junction Days to Dye's run while at Auburn is not a fair comparison. One coach made some mistakes early in his career, and never repeated them. The other coach made his name using the teams he bought. I see a big difference, even if others want to deny it.

And then to go after Stallings...

Comparing the way Stallings left Bama on probation to how Dye left Auburn on probation? :conf2: Many think Bama was abused by the NCAA, and don't fault Stallings to the same degree that Dye can be faulted.

Stallings is a good man. So was Bryant. They both belong in the Hall of Fame. I don't think Dye deserves to be there, and that's my opinion.

Agreed, wholeheartedly!!!

 

[Tidewater]

Is it REALLY that hard to find a more scandalous coach than Dye? I doubt it.

Well, it is the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Shame. The issue is not finding the worst coaches in history (Dye would not be on that list either).
Still, four conference championships in a SEC in chaos, but no national championships, plus the baggage of blatant and obvious widespread cheating would probably not warrant inclusion in the HoF.

That said, he is Auburn's best coach since Shugg, and the HoF is in the capital city of the state in which Auburn is a state university, so they've got to find someone for the HoF and Dye represents their best chance to have someone get in.

 

[Catfish]

I do think its stupid the Dye is in a hall of fame and Pete Rose is not.

The difference is that Pat Dye, despite his shortcomings and NCAA rules violations, had friends. He tended to at least pretend to be a nice person and treat most other people well. So, there are people who know him who like and support him. Much like Barry Bonds, Pete Rose spent his entire life treating almost everybody he came in contact with like dirt. Consequently, when the stuff hit the fan, there was almost nobody who had any reason whatsoever to support him. But, that hasn't stopped Barry and Pete from whining, "Why isn't anybody taking up for MEEEEE???"

 

[TheAccountant]

Somewhat off topic but the inactive Gump For Heisman did a hilarious biographical account of Pat Dye's lost pants story. Not linkable here due to strong language and adult content but a Google search should turn it up for you.

 

[bamaslammer]

possibly for most alcholol consumed

 

[Ole Man Dan]

Are you sure it was him and not his pants that were inducted?

'Hall of Shame' (I've never lost my pants...)

 

[Chukker Veteran]

Hey, at least Dye was willing to "throw us a bone" when he had the chance.

When Coach Dye found out that Jeff Burger had been accused of plagiarism his response was

"What kind of disease is that?"