Why Nebraska is a dead program, and probably will still be under Scott Frost

Tenntiderman

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The thing about the in-state recruiting is that in their old model: they just took every kid who wanted to to wear the big red N as a walk on, give them 2-3 years in their - for the time - cutting edge S&C system, and cherrypick the dozen or so that came out of it as an D-1A athlete. If Alabama could do this approach today w/ walkons and an in-state college scholarship, our depth would be insane. Our scout team walkons would be able to beat 6 teams on a typical FBS schedule. If we could do that without another FBS program in the state like Nebraska...
And they recruited OL guys that had 4 legs.
 

UntouchableCrew

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Again they don't have 93 extra scholarships anymore because Texas, Florida, and Oklahoma started to complain about their recruiting advantage. On the surface the 93 scholarships seemed innocent because you were giving 1 scholarship to a kid in Broken Bowe, Sidney, Alliance, and etc who weren't in the Omaha, Lincoln, and Sioux City areas. But after years of getting punked by Florida teams, Tom started to use those scholarships in the Omaha, Lincoln, and Sioux city area recruits almost exclusively, and signed all the left overs to baseball, basketball, and etc scholarships. He basically thought he wouldn't win a championship during his long tenure at Nebraska so he started to take advantage of a crazy rule exclusively at Nebraska. Basically it allowed him to sign everyone of the Nebraska recuits without wasting 1 of his 25 NCAA allotted. Basically he was playing the same game lottery states do in baseball in which you use your free scholarships on your in state, and your NCAA scholarships on your national. Scott Frost will not have that luxury, he will have to recruit in and out of state on a 25 scholarship limit.


Again the scholarship limit is not the same as it was in the 90's, and Nebraska has permanently lost the Texas pipeline. TCU and KSU have taken their place in that department. I highly doubt he can recruit well in Florida and California while trying to sell Lincoln Nebraska to an 18 year old that has better facilities, better exposure, and better cities all around him
People are harping on the Nebraskas walk-ons while also telling me that there's no talent in Nebraska. Which is it?



Tressel did win a national championship, and played for 2 others. I don't get why this is relevant because they are both great coaches that are in talent rich states. tOSU has been relevant since the 60's, Nebraska hasn't been relevant since 2001. And the main reason is that Ohio recruits are flat out more plentiful, and more talented than Nebraska recruits. Ohio is usually ranked in the Top 5 of talent rich states in terms of recruiting.
I'm just making the point that the maximum upside under Tressel was much lower. He did win a national title (in what was perceived as a huge upset) but his 2006 and 2007 teams got blown off the field by SEC teams. The overall talent on tOSU now is much higher because Meyer has recruited nationally (and Harbaugh and Franklin are following suit.)


Threat Nationally? No not a chance
Threat to the BIG 10? Not unless tOSU, PSU, Michigan, and MSU take huge steps back at the same time.
Threat to the BIG 10 W? Maybe, but Wisconsin has far better infrastructure than Nebraska on so many fronts.
If you say so... I'm not saying this WILL happen. But I think it's bizarre to write off any program. If you have money, fans, and a great coach (not even factoring in the history) you can win, IMO. Is it an uphill battle in an infertile recruiting ground? Yeah, it's a tough job because of the lack of talent and outsized expectations. But I'm a fan of Frost and in the long run I think he'll find success there.
 

UntouchableCrew

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The problem has nothing to do with Scott Frost.


A Mike Rozier from New Jersey is NOT going to spend four years in a frozen cornfield these days, when every single game is on TV.
A Turner Gill from Dallas is NOT going to do it, either.

Neither are Lawrence Phillips, Jarvis Redwine, Grant Wistrom (Joplin, MO), Michael Booker, Keithen McCant, or Broderick Thomas.

Take those away and take the 93 bonus scholarships away......and Nebraska is basically Iowa State with a nostalgic past.
I just don't know why you'd say that. Guys from New Jersey, Texas, California end up at less desirable locations all the time. If all anybody cared about was going to the coolest city USC would win the national title every year. If guys love the coach and believe in his message he can get talent.
 

rgw

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Nebraska doesn't have as many ready-when-they-step-on-campus high school prospects. They were able to leverage their novel-for-the-time S&C program to develop marginal in-state prospects into D-1A athletes by their 3rd year. You couldn't waste a 25 scholarship limit slot on those guys but if they're free to you then it is a win once you get the pipeline humming.
 

81usaf92

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People are harping on the Nebraskas walk-ons while also telling me that there's no talent in Nebraska. Which is it?




I'm just making the point that the maximum upside under Tressel was much lower. He did win a national title (in what was perceived as a huge upset) but his 2006 and 2007 teams got blown off the field by SEC teams. The overall talent on tOSU now is much higher because Meyer has recruited nationally (and Harbaugh and Franklin are following suit.)



If you say so... I'm not saying this WILL happen. But I think it's bizarre to write off any program. If you have money, fans, and a great coach (not even factoring in the history) you can win, IMO. Is it an uphill battle in an infertile recruiting ground? Yeah, it's a tough job because of the lack of talent and outsized expectations. But I'm a fan of Frost and in the long run I think he'll find success there.
There are far more restrictions on the Nebraska walk on program and football scholarships than there was in 97.

What team wins more games? One with 190 players or one with 90? Yes 11 players play at a time, but if you can have an endless supply of bodies with 2 to 3 star players and be better off that a 1st string full of 5 star players. Nebraska had both and never worried about injuries because they had huge teams. It’s kinda telling that once they were told only a certain number of those scholarships could go to male sports in 2003 that the walk on program effectively died. Now those walk ons go to IWU, NI, NDSU, and other FCS on full ride scholarships.

But Nebraska is a TALENT POOR state meaning if they play by the same rules and standards as any SEC school, then they should never be able to compete with anyone. But the walk on policy brought them up due to sheer man power. There is some talent in Nebraska but not a lot, but it’s the depth you can get with nearly an unlimited supply of 2-3 stars that matters. They were able to get away with it then but not now.
 
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81usaf92

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I just don't know why you'd say that. Guys from New Jersey, Texas, California end up at less desirable locations all the time. If all anybody cared about was going to the coolest city USC would win the national title every year. If guys love the coach and believe in his message he can get talent.
Since 2000 USC has had far more success than Nebraska and it isn’t even close, and prior to 2000 they had far more success than Nebraska as well. I think they are keeping the great recruits in LA quiet well.
 

CoachInWaiting

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I think Nebraska is doomed as long as it is in the Big10/14. They should have never let their ego cloud their judgement when they bolted from the Big XII. Everybody likes to blame the Longhorn ego for the Big XII's issues, but Nebraska cut off its own nose to spite Texas. They've not exactly prospered since the move, not that they might have had they stayed put. A little patience and perseverance might have gone a long way though.

The old Big 8 conference was the biggest reason for their success (recruiting chicanery notwithstanding) and that league carried with it natural rivalries that helped all concerned. Nebraska-Oklahoma was always anticipated as a good game, as was Nebraska-Colorado to a lesser degree when the Buffaloes were good, and both Kansas and Kansas State. Rivalries can't easily be forced, and while geographic proximity isn't essential to a good one, it adds a lot of flavor to it. Without natural rivalries, I think Nebraska's heyday has just about faded from the memories of any fans under 30, and it's getting fuzzier by the day.
 

WylieTexasTider

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I'm not trying to call you out personally, because I've seen it repeated many times myself, but do you have any documented evidence of this? It's just that when I went searching, I could find no actual evidence. I did find, for instance a discussion of it on a Nebraska forum basically disputing it and dismissing (as I recall pointing out they didn't have more players than other programs) it but I couldn't find any actual evidence it existed. That doesn't mean it wasn't true, but I was curious about how it worked and couldn't find any proof.
They still were limited to the total scholarship rule which moved from 95 to 85 in the 90’s. Any kid getting an academic scholarship, one in another sport or some county/state resident scholarship still counted to the 85-95 number. Scott Frost talked about it on signing day when they had 19 walk-ons committ.

Where it can help is typically non-revenue sports. I’ve talked to multiple coaches of non-revenue sports that typically have a couple of DFW kids on the roster who have asked if Tide in Texas (DFW Chapter of the NAA) would consider endowing a scholarship for their sport. They could take the cost of attendance, say $20K and use the scholarship Tide in texas endows to fund the student and the $20K set aside by the University would go back to their budget to pay an assistant more, improve travel options, fund better equipment etc.
 

81usaf92

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If Kansas State can be nationally relevant - as they were recently, though not last season - Nebraska can.
KSU has become the Texas and Oklahoma alternate so that is a huge advantage they hold over Nebraska. Plus it helps they’ve had a stable infrastructure for a long time with bill Snyder. Nebraska almost needs a generation of rebuilding and stability to be relevant in the college football again. KSU and Okie St were the biggest winners in Nebraska’s exit, and have proved to be more valuable jobs.
 
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crimsonaudio

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I hadn't considered the permanent rival aspect. I guess Frost will have really up the ante.
We'll see - CFB is littered with coaches who won big at the G5 level but floundered when they had to do everything at 100% just to be competitive. We'll see if Frost can handle it, but I have my doubts - it's an uphill climb and he has little experience...
 
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AlexanderFan

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Oregon offense+big ten speed= ten yard fight swing pass [emoji16]. I'm dating myself with that comparison.


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gtowntide

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If they didn't get rid of Frank Solich they would have won a lot more football games. He is a good coach. His record at Ohio in the MAC is good considering the talent level.
 

Pilot172000

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The Frank Solich firing will go down IMHO as one of the worst travesties in football history. I watch a lot of G5 football and what Solich has done at Ohio is remarkable. As for Nebraska, I never count anyone out especially blue bloods with money. Leaving the Big12 was a monumental mistake and the recruiting shows it. I don’t think they can win consistently in the Big10/14 because of it.
 

UntouchableCrew

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The Frank Solich firing will go down IMHO as one of the worst travesties in football history. I watch a lot of G5 football and what Solich has done at Ohio is remarkable. As for Nebraska, I never count anyone out especially blue bloods with money. Leaving the Big12 was a monumental mistake and the recruiting shows it. I don’t think they can win consistently in the Big10/14 because of it.
It's actually kind of hilarious in retrospect that they fired a coach who had them finishing in the top 10 three consecutive years.
 

81usaf92

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It's actually kind of hilarious in retrospect that they fired a coach who had them finishing in the top 10 three consecutive years.
The price you pay for having those “great” fans.

Nebraska fans are by far the most delusional fans I’ve ever met. They expect championships but don’t expect the long process it takes to get them.
 

Redwood Forrest

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If they didn't get rid of Frank Solich they would have won a lot more football games. He is a good coach. His record at Ohio in the MAC is good considering the talent level.
Here is the potential for Frost at Nebraska: The five year recruiting cycle average in the West has Nebraska 27, Wisconsin,37.6, Iowa 49.9 and the other four lower that that. So Nebraska SHOULD have won the West most years but instead poor coaching kept them down. Now, a 27 average will not contend in the East at all, but it should at least give a little respect to the Husker fans when they go to the B1G championship game. If Frost is as good as they think he is -- that is.
 

81usaf92

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Here is the potential for Frost at Nebraska: The five year recruiting cycle average in the West has Nebraska 27, Wisconsin,37.6, Iowa 49.9 and the other four lower that that. So Nebraska SHOULD have won the West most years but instead poor coaching kept them down. Now, a 27 average will not contend in the East at all, but it should at least give a little respect to the Husker fans when they go to the B1G championship game. If Frost is as good as they think he is -- that is.
That’s all good and all, but that doesn’t explain how both Iowa and Wisconsin have played in major bowls since 2001, but Nebraska hasn’t. While recruiting is a huge deal I believe infrastructure is sometimes even more important. Take into consideration Barry Alvarez has gone thru 3 coaches are since 2010 but has still had a Wisconsin team playing at a high level nationally. With poor recruiting they are still relevant, that tells me they have something built to last.

Nebraska doesn’t, they have a system that keeps throwing stuff and seeing if it sticks. Then they are getting scared by fan uproar and firing a coach.

The one division title they won was when the Big 10 was in their weird alignment and Wisconsin was on the opposite side. Then they played the 3rd best team on the opposite side (Wisconsin) because PSU and tOSU were ineligible. Wisconsin beat the 70 something to a very little. That was a 7-5 team without Russell Wilson beating them like that.

I just don’t think having higher recruiting than Wisconsin is going to matter because Wisconsin is clearly getting players that fit their systems and Nebraska is getting just any talent that will come to Lincoln. Frost may turn it around but I think 4 years is a minimum that he needs to do it.
 

Redwood Forrest

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That’s all good and all, but that doesn’t explain how both Iowa and Wisconsin have played in major bowls since 2001, but Nebraska hasn’t. While recruiting is a huge deal I believe infrastructure is sometimes even more important. Take into consideration Barry Alvarez has gone thru 3 coaches are since 2010 but has still had a Wisconsin team playing at a high level nationally. With poor recruiting they are still relevant, that tells me they have something built to last.

Nebraska doesn’t, they have a system that keeps throwing stuff and seeing if it sticks. Then they are getting scared by fan uproar and firing a coach.

The one division title they won was when the Big 10 was in their weird alignment and Wisconsin was on the opposite side. Then they played the 3rd best team on the opposite side (Wisconsin) because PSU and tOSU were ineligible. Wisconsin beat the 70 something to a very little. That was a 7-5 team without Russell Wilson beating them like that.

I just don’t think having higher recruiting than Wisconsin is going to matter because Wisconsin is clearly getting players that fit their systems and Nebraska is getting just any talent that will come to Lincoln. Frost may turn it around but I think 4 years is a minimum that he needs to do it.
I think we are one the same page. If Frost can right the ship then he can rival Wisconsin and Iowa, which would make them a mid pack team instead of a bottom feeder. That seems to be their only two options.