Why no National Championship in 1945?

[AlabamaSooner]

Re: National Championship

So I guess since the AP or UPI didn't exist back then but a whole lot of other systems did... although not unified....that we should ignore the accomplishments and punish the great men that actually established the tradition of ALABAMA football as we know it today?
Some folks need to go back and research the history of the times and understand why it was such a big deal back in the early days. Yes, the 41 was a little shakey, maybe some others, but we've gotten screwed out of a few that we should have won as well...
To question the "12"....
This is obviously the thinking of a new generation of Bama fan that I'm not accustomed to.... :aiwebs_018:

I don't think it's the thinking of a "new" generation; it's a very valid argument. I feel the exact same way about recognizing those who did great things for our program. Nobody said anything about ignoring them. All of the "championship" accolades were received MANY years after to start with. However, this "nitpicking" of certain championships is kind of odd when you really think about it (and look at it from a neutral standpoint). If the athletic department is going to choose championships other than AP/UPI, then why only 12? Doesn't make sense. As I said before I think I started to feel this way after I finally had a lot of time outside of Alabama and NOBODY except us actually believes these pre-AP titles are legit that we "claim" (except for ND an USC I believe). It's much easier to see this if the crimson glasses are taken off for a second. Bottom line, we have one of the greatest traditions in football no matter what so nobody can argue that.

 

[LCN]

Re: National Championship

I don't think it's the thinking of a "new" generation; it's a very valid argument. I feel the exact same way about recognizing those who did great things for our program. Nobody said anything about ignoring them. All of the "championship" accolades were received MANY years after to start with. However, this "nitpicking" of certain championships is kind of odd when you really think about it (and look at it from a neutral standpoint). If the athletic department is going to choose championships other than AP/UPI, then why only 12? Doesn't make sense. As I said before I think I started to feel this way after I finally had a lot of time outside of Alabama and NOBODY except us actually believes these pre-AP titles are legit that we "claim" (except for ND an USC I believe). It's much easier to see this if the crimson glasses are taken off for a second. Bottom line, we have one of the greatest traditions in football no matter what so nobody can argue that.

.... and Army , Michigan , etc. along with every other school who one them back then . How do you think Princeton , Harvard and Yale won NC's ? If you follow the "never been there" crowds mentality , Michigan would only have 1 .

 

[AlabamaSooner]

Re: National Championship

.... and Army , Michigan , etc. along with every other school who one them back then . How do you think Princeton , Harvard and Yale won NC's ? If you follow the "never been there" crowds mentality , Michigan would only have 1 .

Through retroactive polls such as the Helms Athletic Foundation. Regarding Michigan, they would indeed only have one championship if only counting the widely accepted polls (AP/UPI). Here's my question; do you think Auburn has 4 national championships?

Regardless, it sure seems like we get "picked on" MUCH more than those other schools for the ones we "claim". Does it get old? Yes.

 

[BamaFanInCA]

Re: National Championship

"yea, that championship isn't recognized by anybody outside of BAMA"

man your all over the place on this one, sounds like your trying to learning this stuff after your typing it. first you say bama doesn't claim any titles after 36' that aren't ap or coaches poll. then you say no one outside of bama claims the 41 title. which is it?

UA claims '41. that was a mistake on my part. but no one outside UA "recognizes" it. sorry on that slip up there. but where were you on all my other posts where i provide facts, stats and history and was RIGHT? i've never seen you reply to any of my other insightful posts and you come at me NOW cuz i slipped up on the '41 title? (which i probably subconsciously omitted because i don't really think it's valid and neither does anybody else)?

i think your in over your head on this one grasshopper.

why don't you actually read some of my other posts before trying to tell me i'm in over my head.

Some folks need to go back and research the history of the times and understand why it was such a big deal back in the early days. Yes, the 41 was a little shakey, maybe some others, but we've gotten screwed out of a few that we should have won as well...
To question the "12"....
This is obviously the thinking of a new generation of Bama fan that I'm not accustomed to.... :aiwebs_018:

I for one (don't know if i'm "new generation" or not) question the 12. But i question it in the sense that '41, '64 and '73 aren't really legitimate. '41 is self explanatory. '64 BAMA finished at 10-1 after losing their orange bowl game to texas. meanwhile arkansas went undefeated (11-0) beating that SAME texas team AND winning their cotton bowl game against nebraska. '73 BAMA finished at 11-1 after losing in the sugar bowl to undefeated notre dame (11-0). that one's pretty indisputable.

but i do feel 5 others ARE legitimate. i feel BAMA really has 14 championships ('25, '26, '30, '34, '36, '45, '61, '65, '66, '75, '77, '78, '79, '92). i for one don't question the ones before the AP/Coaches' polls.

 

[AlabamaSooner]

Re: National Championship

BamaFanInCa...try not to take it so personal. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and corrections. Taking personal "shots" such as grammer is just a waste of time. JMO.

 

[LCN]

Re: National Championship

Through retroactive polls such as the Helms Athletic Foundation. Regarding Michigan, they would indeed only have one championship if only counting the widely accepted polls (AP/UPI). Here's my question; do you think Auburn has 4 national championships?

Regardless, it sure seems like we get "picked on" MUCH more than those other schools for the ones we "claim". Does it get old? Yes.

It's just envy . :smile: The dome gets ripped around their region over some NC's they have from years when they actually declined their bowl invitations .


Auburn has 1 NC and it was shared . I know this will sound far-fetched but , the story actually goes much , much deeper . AP voters weren't chosen or limited back then . Almost any media member could vote but , none were required to vote . They weren't required to vote every week either .

In '57 , the barn was on probation and on the outside looking in while attempting to win the AP's title . As the season was winding down , it was clear that the barn would not factor into the battle for #1 even though they were undefeated so , a plan was put into motion .

Several pro-barn media members in and from around our state got together and used the old N vs. S routine to convince several of their buddies from around the south to hold back their votes over the last couple of weeks of the season . This created a false margin for Ohio State in the AP poll . When the season ended , many media members failed to vote or chose not to vote since Ohio State was widely considered to be the NC and were on their way to the Rose Bowl while the barn would be sitting at home during the bowl season .

When the final AP poll was released everyone was shocked that the barn had gained over 100 points and managed to beat out Ohio State for the AP title . Was it legitimate or a scam ? Well it was a scam , they were on probation and they weren't named Auburn at the time either but , whatever . They need not attempt to poke at any of our 12+ titles while holding on to a shady title like theirs . Anyway , this version comes from a couple of very well known all-time barners . What's so funny about it is they think it was brilliant as opposed to dishonest and desperate .


If you were reaching for their NYT's crap from '83 , it was not a recognized or accepted outlet before , during or after 1983 . None of my barner buddies ever try to claim it . I've never heard any mention of a possible 3rd or 4th for the barn . :conf3:

 

[BamaFanInCA]

Re: National Championship

BamaFanInCa...try not to take it so personal. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and corrections. Taking personal "shots" such as grammer is just a waste of time. JMO.

sorry coach Kines. it's hard not to take it personal when people are trying to tell me i'm a lil grasshopper that's in over my head. i know my share of BAMA football. nonetheless, i've taken out the grammar shot.

 

[AlabamaSooner]

Re: National Championship

sorry coach Kines. it's hard not to take it personal when people are trying to tell me i'm a lil grasshopper that's in over my head. i know my share of BAMA football. nonetheless, i've taken out the grammar shot.

We just need to stop that little inside trap! Oh, we'll just go play! :wink:

 

[LSUTigers1404]

Re: National Championship

Sadly, the National Championship Debate in college football will never be solved. But recently I went back and looked at every single championship that was awarded by any and all organizations for every season. Now before I go any further, I do not claim this as law or legit. This is simply my own opinion of what constitutes the "real" National Champion for each season.

Before 1936 the AP or the UPI/coach's poll did not name a National Champion. So all the championships awarded pre 1936 are known as retroactive titles since they were awarded decades after the seasons took place. From the research I've gathered, which is combined with my own opinion, all "legit" titles from this era were awarded by the National Championship Foundation. To me, no other polling service is legit. Again, this is just MY opinion and I am not claiming it to be right.

The National Championship Foundation awarded its title to Alabama in 1925 and in 1926.

From 1936-1949, the AP was the only major polling service to award a National title. So to me, this is the only championship that is "legit" in this time span. Alabama was never named champion by the AP in this era.

From 1950-1997 the AP and the UPI/coach's poll were the only 2 major polls to name a champion. Again, to me these are the only ones that are "legit."

Alabama was named National Champs by one of/both of these polls in 1961, 1964, 1965, 1973, 1978, 1979 and 1992.

From 1998-now the BCS has held a BCS National Championship Game with the winner being named National Champion. To me, if you don't win this game, you are not a National Champion. Alabama hasn't won a BCS National Championship Game.

Now according to my own personel list, Bama has 9 National Championships. I will say this again because I know someone is just waiting to flame. This is MY opinion. This is simply a list that I compiled and in no way, shape or form is it anywhere near official. I do not claim this opinion to be a fact in any kind of way. Whether you claim 12, 11, 9 or 8...it really doesn't matter. No matter how you look at it, Bama has a lot.

 

[CornBiscuit]

Re: National Championship

mpion. Alabama hasn't won a BCS National Championship Game.

Now according to my own personel list, Bama has 9 National Championships. I will say this again because I know someone is just waiting to flame. This is MY opinion. This is simply a list that I compiled and in no way, shape or form is it anywhere near official. I do not claim this opinion to be a fact in any kind of way. Whether you claim 12, 11, 9 or 8...it really doesn't matter. No matter how you look at it, Bama has a lot.

Just so we can flame you even more can you list the years we won it in according to your research?

 

[LSUTigers1404]

Re: National Championship

I did, it's all in there. So flame away. :tongue:

 

[CornBiscuit]

Re: National Championship

I did, it's all in there. So flame away. :tongue:

Sorry, I didn't realize those were the ones you referring to.

I am not going to flame you, as everyone has their opinions. However, lots of Alabama fans could claim a few more, so it is an argument that wont be settled anytime soon.

 

[AlabamaSooner]

Re: National Championship

Sadly, the National Championship Debate in college football will never be solved. But recently I went back and looked at every single championship that was awarded by any and all organizations for every season. Now before I go any further, I do not claim this as law or legit. This is simply my own opinion of what constitutes the "real" National Champion for each season.

Before 1936 the AP or the UPI/coach's poll did not name a National Champion. So all the championships awarded pre 1936 are known as retroactive titles since they were awarded decades after the seasons took place. From the research I've gathered, which is combined with my own opinion, all "legit" titles from this era were awarded by the National Championship Foundation. To me, no other polling service is legit. Again, this is just MY opinion and I am not claiming it to be right.

The National Championship Foundation awarded its title to Alabama in 1925 and in 1926.

From 1936-1949, the AP was the only major polling service to award a National title. So to me, this is the only championship that is "legit" in this time span. Alabama was never named champion by the AP in this era.

From 1950-1997 the AP and the UPI/coach's poll were the only 2 major polls to name a champion. Again, to me these are the only ones that are "legit."

Alabama was named National Champs by one of/both of these polls in 1961, 1964, 1965, 1973, 1978, 1979 and 1992.

From 1998-now the BCS has held a BCS National Championship Game with the winner being named National Champion. To me, if you don't win this game, you are not a National Champion. Alabama hasn't won a BCS National Championship Game.

Now according to my own personel list, Bama has 9 National Championships. I will say this again because I know someone is just waiting to flame. This is MY opinion. This is simply a list that I compiled and in no way, shape or form is it anywhere near official. I do not claim this opinion to be a fact in any kind of way. Whether you claim 12, 11, 9 or 8...it really doesn't matter. No matter how you look at it, Bama has a lot.

I totally agree with your assessment. I share pretty much exactly the same views as you do regarding your opinions/thoughts. Very good summary.

 

[drjohn432]

Re: National Championship

I appreciate the erudite comments and the knowledge of the people who commented on this question. IMO we should claim 11. Can 1941. Of course we will have 13(12?) after this coming season or 2.

 

[LCN]

Re: National Championship

I did, it's all in there. So flame away. :tongue:

Not sure where I should start .


Actually , the #12 is a low # . Some of those which are claimed , - 41 & 73 - I do not claim for my own reasons . Still , there are at least 5 others which aren't universally claimed and could be argued and debated all the day long - 77 , 75 , 66 , 45 & 36 . When you have up to about 24 to choose from , some could get lost in the shuffle but , 9 is insulting . :wink:

 

[BamaFanInCA]

Re: National Championship

Not sure where I should start .


Actually , the #12 is a low # . Some of those which are claimed , - 41 & 73 - I do not claim for my own reasons . Still , there are at least 5 others which aren't universally claimed and could be argued and debated all the day long - 77 , 75 , 66 , 45 & 36 . When you have up to about 24 to choose from , some could get lost in the shuffle but , 9 is insulting . :wink:

i think arizona st deserves the titles in '75. they went undefeated and beat a 10-1 nebraska team in their bowl to finish at 12-0. oklahoma and BAMA each had a loss.

 

[LSUTigers1404]

Re: National Championship

i think arizona st deserves the titles in '75. they went undefeated and beat a 10-1 nebraska team in their bowl to finish at 12-0. oklahoma and BAMA each had a loss.

Problem with that, even if you go undefeated, it doesn't really matter unless one of the major polls names you the champion. I forget which season it is, but Alabama and Arkansas both finished the regular season undefeated. Bama was voted #1 before the bowls. However, Bama lost their bowl game and Arkansas won their bowl game. Thus we had a 1 loss National Champion Tide and an undefeated Arkansas with nothing.

Also, remember what happened to Auburn in 2004. :biggrin:

 

[AngryEwok]

Re: National Championship

Also, remember what happened to Auburn in 2004. :biggrin:

Did one of their athletes graduate with something better than a 2.5 GPA?

Oh, you're talking about Auburn football. Nevermind.

 

[RazedRite]

Re: National Championship

Alabama and Arkansas both finished the regular season undefeated. Bama was voted #1 before the bowls. However, Bama lost their bowl game and Arkansas won their bowl game.

I think a lot of people don't realize that in those years the bowl game was nothing more than an exhibition. For whatever reason, it wasn't considered part of the season and so the championship was awarded before the bowl games.

 

[RazedRite]

Re: National Championship

Now according to my own personel list, Bama has 9 National Championships. ... Whether you claim 12, 11, 9 or 8...it really doesn't matter. No matter how you look at it, Bama has a lot.

I agree with that statement 100%. It really doesn't matter. The fact is, Bama was up there competing for it or winning it quite often over the years.

And someone earlier stated that no other school claims any pre-AP (pre-1936) championships, but that's not true. For example, Georgia Tech claims four MNCs; 1917, 1928, 1952, and 1990.