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UA - OM Postgame Thread...

teamplayer said:
I have a basketball question from yesterday. How can we not figure out how to attack a 2-3 zone? We never make the pass to the middle or drive to the middle without turning it over. The funny thing is that Ole Miss was actually defending the three point line against us and leaving places open for ten and fifteen foot jumpers. I'd say we shoot the ten to fifteen footers better than we do the three ball, but we never/rarely got to those spots.
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Playing against a 2-3 will be tricky if you're not hitting your 3's. If you're not hot from the outside, you must attack the gaps rather than just passing it around the perimeter like we did yesterday. Another option (as LD already said), is to hit either the high post near the FT line or the short corner behind the zone. Hate to say it, but the short corner is where we miss a guy like Tony Mitchell.

There was one game a few weeks ago where I liked our plan of passing and then screening one of their top 2 defenders. That's what I'd like to see the next time a 2-3 is shown to us.
 
teamplayer said:
I have a basketball question from yesterday. How can we not figure out how to attack a 2-3 zone? We never make the pass to the middle or drive to the middle without turning it over. The funny thing is that Ole Miss was actually defending the three point line against us and leaving places open for ten and fifteen foot jumpers. I'd say we shoot the ten to fifteen footers better than we do the three ball, but we never/rarely got to those spots. Based on the Auburn and Ole Miss games this week, we are not an NCAA tournament quality team; however, there have been times this year where we have played like an NCAA team. We should have made it last year, but we didn't. If I were Coach Grant and the boys, I would make sure to show up in New Orleans and get a win or two. Roll Tide!
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It's not an answer I like, but I think it's mostly the presence of Green. The guards did a good job of penetration in the two games without Green and even in the last game in which he came off the bench. However, for the AU and OM games, we just stagnated again. I'm not saying he's a bad player or that he doesn't give effort. He does. It's the effect he seems to have on the young guys. Any combination of Eng, Jacobs and Gueye doesn't seem to have the same effect. That said, I think there was more wrong last night - some combination of lingering illness or undisclosed injuries. I'd been hearing that Releford was playing through a stress fracture. I'd been discounting it, but something's wrong. I just hope it gets right before the SECT. I think we'd probably have trouble beating USCe, the way we played last night...
 
jangalang said:
Playing against a 2-3 will be tricky if you're not hitting your 3's. If you're not hot from the outside, you must attack the gaps rather than just passing it around the perimeter like we did yesterday. Another option (as LD already said), is to hit either the high post near the FT line or the short corner behind the zone. Hate to say it, but the short corner is where we miss a guy like Tony Mitchell.

There was one game a few weeks ago where I liked our plan of passing and then screening one of their top 2 defenders. That's what I'd like to see the next time a 2-3 is shown to us.
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You're right. The easiest way out of a zone is to shoot your way out. I know it doesn't take much in the way of illness or injury for your three pt shot to disappear...
 
Releford has not been getting good elevation....that would explain it....
TIDE-HSV said:
It's not an answer I like, but I think it's mostly the presence of Green. The guards did a good job of penetration in the two games without Green and even in the last game in which he came off the bench. However, for the AU and OM games, we just stagnated again. I'm not saying he's a bad player or that he doesn't give effort. He does. It's the effect he seems to have on the young guys. Any combination of Eng, Jacobs and Gueye doesn't seem to have the same effect. That said, I think there was more wrong last night - some combination of lingering illness or undisclosed injuries. I'd been hearing that Releford was playing through a stress fracture. I'd been discounting it, but something's wrong. I just hope it gets right before the SECT. I think we'd probably have trouble beating USCe, the way we played last night...
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CajunCrimson said:
Releford has not been getting good elevation....that would explain it....
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That's the reason I even mentioned it. I think it brought it out of the realm of rumor, because he just looks like a guy playing on a bum leg. Also, the way Grant looked last night, he was either ill himself or he knew some things we didn't know about the condition of the team...
 
I am no X's and O's expert, but I noticed something during the Gottfried years that happens rears it ugly head again when Green is in the game. We are not what I call quick with the ball, by that I mean our players hold onto the ball instead a making a fast decision. We pass the ball around and each player holds onto the ball for a second ot two before either passing, shooting or driving. It gives the defense time to catch up. If you watch the good teams the ball moves to each player and they automatically know what to do. We are not at that point. I think some of it is we are young and still learning the system to some extent and part of it is confidence. We seem to turn down open shots on the perimeter some time.
 
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Seems like our lack of production on offense obscures the fact with alot of our fans that we have one of the best defenses in the country. I see comments that we don't look like a tournament team, blah, blah....but our defense sure does. Like all teams, we have positives and negatives. Vanderbilt, for example, is hoping their offense will carry them. They are not nearly as tough on the defensive end of the floor. The teams that do both offense and defense better than the others will advance further in the tournament. However, there will be plenty of one-dimensional teams who are in the field of 68.

Bama's defense is ranked nationally 9th in scoring, 11th FG percentage, 3rd in 3 pt percentage. All these rankings do not include the Ole Miss game.

The stats do show that Bama has a lot of fouls called against them. They are 197th in fouls called per game. If you are 1st in that category, you have the fewest called against you.

Don't be like Oklahoma State football fans and think only offense matters.
 
ReturnToGlory said:
Seems like our lack of production on offense obscures the fact with alot of our fans that we have one of the best defenses in the country. I see comments that we don't look like a tournament team, blah, blah....but our defense sure does. Like all teams, we have positives and negatives. Vanderbilt, for example, is hoping their offense will carry them. They are not nearly as tough on the defensive end of the floor. The teams that do both offense and defense better than the others will advance further in the tournament. However, there will be plenty of one-dimensional teams who are in the field of 68.

Bama's defense is ranked nationally 9th in scoring, 11th FG percentage, 3rd in 3 pt percentage. All these rankings do not include the Ole Miss game.

The stats do show that Bama has a lot of fouls called against them. They are 197th in fouls called per game. If you are 1st in that category, you have the fewest called against you.

Don't be like Oklahoma State football fans and think only offense matters.
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You have to be good on both defense and offense if you are going to be a championship quality team. We do play good defense, but you can't expect to beat teams 58-50 in every game. When you play less than inspired ball, you have games with results like we did yesterday. Don't get me wrong, I believe in CAG, but we have to get better on both offense and defense to be a consistently good team.
 
this was probably the worst team to play this late, and at their place. they are not a very good team, but, against our guys they bullied the boys the whole game, and the officials permitted all the inside muscle. i know we have perimeter shooting problems, but we had no inside play. i would put green at center and let him do his thing. we have a young team, dominated by freshmen, and little talent off the bench from veterans. especilly at point guard, or shooting guard. miss was so much stronger and bigger. i watched at least 4 charge opportunities against miss, but, our young guys stepped aside. i guess that was smart. we just lack, talent inside, with mitchell gone, and so much youth every where else. this will get better, if we can recruit a couple of big boys inside.
 
Rama Jama said:
I am no X's and O's expert, but I noticed something during the Gottfried years that happens rears it ugly head again when Green is in the game. We are not what I call quick with the ball, by that I mean our players hold onto the ball instead a making a fast decision. We pass the ball around and each player holds onto the ball for a second ot two before either passing, shooting or driving. It gives the defense time to catch up. If you watch the good teams the ball moves to each player and they automatically know what to do. We are not at that point. I think some of it is we are young and still learning the system to some extent and part of it is confidence. We seem to turn down open shots on the perimeter some time.
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YES. YES. YES.

The key to beating a 2-3 zone is not just outside shooting, but putting the ball in to get the double team, and then kick it out and swing the ball. Usually this leads to an outside shot, but it doesn't have to.

Specifically with Green in the game, it's like our guards automatically look for him on every pass. He is and should be a key part of our offense, but that second they take to look for that pass is a second that allows the defense to recover. Good offensive teams swing the ball around quickly and punish you when you get out of position.
 
bamanix said:
this was probably the worst team to play this late, and at their place. they are not a very good team, but, against our guys they bullied the boys the whole game, and the officials permitted all the inside muscle. i know we have perimeter shooting problems, but we had no inside play. i would put green at center and let him do his thing. we have a young team, dominated by freshmen, and little talent off the bench from veterans. especilly at point guard, or shooting guard. miss was so much stronger and bigger. i watched at least 4 charge opportunities against miss, but, our young guys stepped aside. i guess that was smart. we just lack, talent inside, with mitchell gone, and so much youth every where else. this will get better, if we can recruit a couple of big boys inside.
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definitely bad timing, and Ole Miss is still holding out hope that they can get in the NCAA with a decent end to the season, and played like yesterday was the NCAA Finals. They wanted it more, and our team/coaches were off and out of it, whatever the explanation.

We will be "en fuego" going into the SECT, and hopefully everyone is well and able to play at 100%. At least we have a coach that believes that you should actually TRY to win the SECT (unlike XCMG who thought going deep into it was detrimental to our team's NCAA performance---I think he just used that as an excuse).
 
Rama Jama said:
I am no X's and O's expert, but I noticed something during the Gottfried years that happens rears it ugly head again when Green is in the game. We are not what I call quick with the ball, by that I mean our players hold onto the ball instead a making a fast decision. We pass the ball around and each player holds onto the ball for a second ot two before either passing, shooting or driving. It gives the defense time to catch up. If you watch the good teams the ball moves to each player and they automatically know what to do. We are not at that point. I think some of it is we are young and still learning the system to some extent and part of it is confidence. We seem to turn down open shots on the perimeter some time.
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Exactly what I was saying about missing the open LP.
 
It isn't Green's fault our offense gets stagnant with him, that would fall on Releford (or another Guard with the ball). With Releford still not being 100% (I assume), he drove to the basket less then a handful of times last night. We are also one of the worst assist teams in the SEC (208th in the nation), and that is a telling stat. Like EVERYONE has said, you have to be able to shoot to bust the zone...or you need really good high post passing/pick and roll play. We got some of that when Green was out because our Guards HAD to. If they would do that with Green back, we would be good. Green, unfortunately, can't control what the offense does from the low post. Our guards become stagnant (most possesions had 6-8 or more passes on the perimeter), and didn't get it down low very often. When our bigs would come out for the pick, it was more of the same. There was never a pass in to the "roll" man, and it would just go back to perimeter passing. I don't want to say it is a lack of coaching, because I've seen us run a good fundamental offense. I think it's a lack of basketball maturity, or basketball IQ from our guards.
 
edwd58 said:
I spent the day car shopping, and finally buying, with my son and didn't get to see any of the game. And from the sound of things it may have been a blessing. I had real doubt about our chances of winning at the Tad, even when officiating is only somewhat biased, which appears not to have been the case today. Disappointing for certain.

Nothing to do now but prepare for the SEC tourney and make amends for both today, and the disaster that was the USCe game.
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What was the choice?
 
Rama Jama said:
I am no X's and O's expert, but I noticed something during the Gottfried years that happens rears it ugly head again when Green is in the game. We are not what I call quick with the ball, by that I mean our players hold onto the ball instead a making a fast decision. We pass the ball around and each player holds onto the ball for a second ot two before either passing, shooting or driving. It gives the defense time to catch up. If you watch the good teams the ball moves to each player and they automatically know what to do. We are not at that point. I think some of it is we are young and still learning the system to some extent and part of it is confidence. We seem to turn down open shots on the perimeter some time.
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That one trait caused LR to get one trey blocked. He assumed he had that second to get set. He didn't...
 
Rama Jama said:
I am no X's and O's expert, but I noticed something during the Gottfried years that happens rears it ugly head again when Green is in the game. We are not what I call quick with the ball, by that I mean our players hold onto the ball instead a making a fast decision. We pass the ball around and each player holds onto the ball for a second ot two before either passing, shooting or driving. It gives the defense time to catch up. If you watch the good teams the ball moves to each player and they automatically know what to do. We are not at that point. I think some of it is we are young and still learning the system to some extent and part of it is confidence. We seem to turn down open shots on the perimeter some time.
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Part of attacking a zone is quick ball movement, and I agree. Our sets and options off the high screens are predictable and non threatening, and no one respects our ability to shoot a 3 or turn the corner off the screen.


You want to make the zone move so it loses its floor balance, and then attack the open area. You can do this off dribble penetration or getting the ball in the post so as to draw help defense, but Bama has a propensity to turn it over in these situations - though I think we do not get the ball in the post to Green and Jacobs nearly enough.

There have been a few times we have moved the ball around the perimeter and into and then out of the high post with no dribbling, and that is some of the best zone offense we have run. It also usually happens with Eblen in the game, as he wants to pass, not shoot or drive. You cam move the ball quicker via pass than dribble, and thus have a better chance to compromise the integrity of the zone.

Too many of our guys think they have to put the ball on the floor as soon as they get it, and unless you dribble with purpose, this can allow a zone that is getting behind the offense to catch up. Against good athletes who understand how to zone, the offensive player really needs to know in his head what he wants to do BEFORE he gets the ball. Too many of our guys get the ball and then try to figure it out, and this is something that has to be coached into players, though some is Basketball instincts.
 
TrueGritnPluck said:
Part of attacking a zone is quick ball movement, and I agree. Our sets and options off the high screens are predictable and non threatening, and no one respects our ability to shoot a 3 or turn the corner off the screen.


You want to make the zone move so it loses its floor balance, and then attack the open area. You can do this off dribble penetration or getting the ball in the post so as to draw help defense, but Bama has a propensity to turn it over in these situations - though I think we do not get the ball in the post to Green and Jacobs nearly enough.

There have been a few times we have moved the ball around the perimeter and into and then out of the high post with no dribbling, and that is some of the best zone offense we have run. It also usually happens with Eblen in the game, as he wants to pass, not shoot or drive. You cam move the ball quicker via pass than dribble, and thus have a better chance to compromise the integrity of the zone.

Too many of our guys think they have to put the ball on the floor as soon as they get it, and unless you dribble with purpose, this can allow a zone that is getting behind the offense to catch up. Against good athletes who understand how to zone, the offensive player really needs to know in his head what he wants to do BEFORE he gets the ball. Too many of our guys get the ball and then try to figure it out, and this is something that has to be coached into players, though some is Basketball instincts.
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What's hard to understand is that, for a few games, with Mitchell and Green out, they seemed to "get it." Now, we look like the old, ineffective offense. I feel like there's more going on within the team than we know...
 
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