What's the opinion on why physically weaker, smaller mid major teams and other major teams ranked low in their conferences can defeat SEC teams sometimes on the SEC home court? Why do they shoot so much better in terms of 3 pointers and outside shots in general? Typically they are smaller in size, less athletic, not as quick but kill our mid tier SEC teams. After seeing the Miss St., LSU, and Ole Miss games I have a bad feeling about Alabama's game on Friday.
SEC vs Underdogs
- Thread starter southface
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I'm at a loss as to why as well. I did not see LSU but I did watch MSU and Ole Miss get beat. Both teams played hard but maybe they didn't practice hard in the days leading to the games (mental prep as well). There are a lot of good basketball players throughout the country and more emphasis on basketball outside of the South. The players on the other teams were fairly athletic and had very good basketball skills.
I do think the coaches made some errors in the MSU and Ole Miss losses which didn't help and Illinois State hit 3-pointers at an unbelievable rate. UMASS and Illinois State both did what Bama couldn't do this season and Creighton is a step up from these teams... Bama players will be prepped for the upcoming game though and have better discipline so I'm not too discouraged by MSU and Ole Miss showings.
I do think the coaches made some errors in the MSU and Ole Miss losses which didn't help and Illinois State hit 3-pointers at an unbelievable rate. UMASS and Illinois State both did what Bama couldn't do this season and Creighton is a step up from these teams... Bama players will be prepped for the upcoming game though and have better discipline so I'm not too discouraged by MSU and Ole Miss showings.
A few things...
- MSU and Ole Miss probably weren't thrilled about the NIT. They felt like they should be in the tournament.
- Several of those Mid-Majors are full of seniors.
- Other schools have great, young talent. The reason that talent isn't in a big conference varies from player to player (grades, off court issues, matured late).
All of the reasons above, but honestly, players that go to major conferences don't go there to play in the NIT. Not saying that those that go to the mid-majors do, but in some conferences you can have a great year, lose in the championship game to a good team, and you're in the NIT.
You only get mediocre (or really sometimes just poor) major conference teams in the NIT. You can be a good mid major team and be in the NIT.
You only get mediocre (or really sometimes just poor) major conference teams in the NIT. You can be a good mid major team and be in the NIT.
What he said plus some mid major teams are just better than middle of the road SEC teams or teams from any conference for that matter. A player would rather go to a UMASS or Iona and play for 4 years than to go to an SEC, ACC, etc school and sit for a few years or not get as many minutes. Then you have cases like the kid at Detroit or McDermott at Creighton who just want to play for their dads.
Where do these mid-major schools find these shooters though? That's what baffles me. Here's a list of the top 10 3P% teams in the country this year.
Half are NCAA Tourny teams, and there's only 1 school among those is from a Power conference.
If you scroll to the last page, we're at the end ranked #332 out of 344.
I know we play tougher defense in the SEC, and that's one reason for the lower % number, but even Vandy & Florida are ranked in the top 25, so I know it's possible to still shoot well within our league.
Where do these mid-major schools find these shooters though? That's what baffles me. Here's a list of the top 10 3P% teams in the country this year.
Half are NCAA Tourny teams, and there's only 1 school among those is from a Power conference.
If you scroll to the last page, we're at the end ranked #332 out of 344.
I know we play tougher defense in the SEC, and that's one reason for the lower % number, but even Vandy & Florida are ranked in the top 25, so I know it's possible to still shoot well within our league.
That's part of the reason mid majors are so good. Dead eye shooters whether they are black, white, or other are not overly athletic. They don't stand out and can't play pressure D. A lot of the times they are a flat out liability on defense. A lot of those guys end up in mid major programs. You get three or four of those guys on the same team and by the time they are juniors and seniors they can win a lot of basketball games.
Different variables involved. Each team has its own variable, which depends on each player's reason.Where do these mid-major schools find these shooters though? That's what baffles me. Here's a list of the top 10 3P% teams in the country this year.
Half are NCAA Tourny teams, and there's only 1 school among those is from a Power conference.
If you scroll to the last page, we're at the end ranked #332 out of 344.
I know we play tougher defense in the SEC, and that's one reason for the lower % number, but even Vandy & Florida are ranked in the top 25, so I know it's possible to still shoot well within our league.
Guy might fall through the cracks. Earle posted an article last week about UAH's star player, and he's from Alabama. Bama didn't recruit him. Why? No telling. This particular player might be one of those guys.
Like I said, sometimes these guys mature later than others; happens in football too. Whether it's a growth spurt or mental barrier that doesn't go away until in college. The development of players factors in here big time.
Don't have the time to now, but I'm interested to know the average defense those teams faced. Do those defenses allow many 3's? Size? Points per game? Rebounds? What kind of games were these - big comebacks? no defense?
Another thing to consider - is the player the complete package? Creighton seems to be a perfect example of this. While they put up tons of 3's, their defense seems to be very suspect. Our guys aren't fully complete (if that makes sense), but they play hard nose defense and make enough shots. Some of these mid-majors put up plenty of points but can't stop their opponents from scoring.
Where do these mid-major schools find these shooters though? That's what baffles me. Here's a list of the top 10 3P% teams in the country this year.
Half are NCAA Tourny teams, and there's only 1 school among those is from a Power conference.
If you scroll to the last page, we're at the end ranked #332 out of 344.
I know we play tougher defense in the SEC, and that's one reason for the lower % number, but even Vandy & Florida are ranked in the top 25, so I know it's possible to still shoot well within our league.
You will also find that many of the teams in their conference are not very good defensive teams either -- The team that played Ole Miss shot 72% from 3pt range yesterday (one guy shot 8 for 9) -- AND yet Ole Miss STILL almost won.....missing a 10 footer at the end of regulation.....
You can teach a guy to play defense though, it's hard to teach a guy who can't shoot, to shoot.
Recruit A: Shoots 3's like Ray Allen, defends like Steve Nash
Recruit B: Shoots 3's like Charles Barkley, defends like Gary Payton
Who do you pick?
I know those are extreme examples, but I'd take the shooter all day, every day and teach him to defend, at least adequately. Just seems strange that shooters are so hard to find. And it's not just us, it's been a downward trend for all teams over the last decade.
Recruit A: Shoots 3's like Ray Allen, defends like Steve Nash
Recruit B: Shoots 3's like Charles Barkley, defends like Gary Payton
Who do you pick?
I know those are extreme examples, but I'd take the shooter all day, every day and teach him to defend, at least adequately. Just seems strange that shooters are so hard to find. And it's not just us, it's been a downward trend for all teams over the last decade.
Teaching any type of player depends solely on his/her ability to be taught.
When I coach my little league team (Kindergarten and 1st grade), they learn to shoot if they don't know how and they learn defense if they don't know it. It's all in the student, but in my case, it's the coach.
Mississippi State mailed it in weeks ago. LSU lost on the road at Oregon. I don't have a reason for the Ole Miss loss.
You can't teach athletic ability and I think that's what the issue is with a lot of these guys.
So you can watch Gonzaga, St. Mary's, Murray State, etc.. and tell me with a straight face that those guys aren't extremely athletic? Those teams run the court as well as any team in America.
I think the problem within big time power conference basketball is the way the game is played. It's a slow down, beat each other to death battle. It's why we get so fed up with the ref's. If they called every foul, both teams probably couldn't put enough guys on the court with 5 minutes left in the game.
Go watch the Duke-UK battle from 1992. The mid major programs from today mirror those teams a lot more than the power conference teams do. It was a fluid, graceful game back then built on shooting & fundamentals.
If it's fundamentals, the mid-majors would have great defenses. Do they?And Gonzaga and St. Mary's might be considered Mid-Majors, but they're not. They've got the name recognition now to not be considered a Mid-Major. Same goes with Creighton, really.Somethings to consider:
- When the rise of "Mid-Majors" began. I can't really remember the exact time. Something that most likely helped them was the NBA rule where a player had to wait a year. Instead of going pro out of high school, guys like John Wall and others went to school for a year. Their decision caused a player that would go to UK (or wherever) if Wall didn't attend college to go elsewhere. That decision caused the players that would go to the second school in the scenario to go to the "Mid-Major." Just a trickle down affect IMO.
- Rise in popularity of basketball. For so long, baseball was "America's game." It's not anymore; as a whole, it competes with soccer for #3 depending on the location. More kids are playing basketball now. More kids playing = more quality players.
- AAU. It's got to be mentioned in every college basketball talk, no matter the specific topic because it plays some role. Might have to look deep, but it's there.
The kid from UAH, Jamie Smith (originally from Hoover) has helped take UAH to the Elite Eight of their division. He seems to be at least adequate on defense. It's hard to believe that he wouldn't be at least part time in our rotation, given our shooting woes. I guess it's possible he's developed a lot. Lord knows, he works at it. Wonder if he'd be interested in transferring...
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And hey... He would only be going from Jr. Varsity (UAH) to Varsity (UA). :wink: It's our D-League!The kid from UAH, Jamie Smith (originally from Hoover) has helped take UAH to the Elite Eight of their division. He seems to be at least adequate on defense. It's hard to believe that he wouldn't be at least part time in our rotation, given our shooting woes. I guess it's possible he's developed a lot. Lord knows, he works at it. Wonder if he'd be interested in transferring...
Most of those kids that you are talking about......never seem to show any interest in Bama.....is it US not wanting THEM, or THEM not wanting US?
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