The Trayvon Martin Case

[cbi1972]

Yep, it could have played out this way. A 17 year old kid who weighs 150 lbs and was carrying a soft drink and pack of skittles (see here, no weapons) might have just attacked a 250 lb man in the dark, while running away and crying out for help. I guess anything is possible, however unlikely. But where would you place your money?

Unless Zimmerman beat himself in the face and fell down in the grass on his own, I'd say Martin had it in him to fight.

 

[rizolltizide]

from what i understand his dad lived there.

It was his father's girlfriend's house. Now whether the father lives there or not, I don't know. The girlfriend is white, and it is my understanding that the neighborhood is predominately white.

And for those who don't know, Sanford is a suburb to the north of Orlando.

 

[SimplyTide]

so the idiot basically shot a kid that 'lived' in the neighborhood? Never bothered to ask the kid what he was doing. Or did, and didn't care. Nice.

At least 6 people called 911 that heard the gunshots and screaming. They described the same thing when questioned - a gunshot, then about 30 seconds of a person screaming for help, then another gunshot, then the screaming stopped. When asked, they all said that the victim was the one screaming for help, but the police corrected at least one of the witnesses, saying "You mean the man was screaming for help". Even though they corrected the officer, the official police report says that it was the shooter who was screaming for help. The parents of the victim say that it was definitely the voice of their child screaming for help.

This whole thing stinks of cover-up, and that is why the Justice Department is now involved.

 

[SimplyTide]

Unless Zimmerman beat himself in the face and fell down in the grass on his own, I'd say Martin had it in him to fight.

Zimmerman pulled a gun on him and fired a warning shot. Martin then screamed for help for 30 seconds before the second shot was fired. IMO, the only way that this kid dies is if Zimmerman wants it to end that way.

 

[cbi1972]

Zimmerman pulled a gun on him and fired a warning shot. Martin then screamed for help for 30 seconds before the second shot was fired. IMO, the only way that this kid dies is if Zimmerman wants it to end that way.

So you're saying Zimmermann roughed himself up?

 

[SimplyTide]

So you're saying Zimmermann roughed himself up?

It is at least as likely as the notion that the kid attacked him for no reason. After all, the kid was dead, and he shot him.

 

[crimsonaudio]

In my state, if you escalate (chase after / confront) someone, you'll have VERY tough time claiming any shooting as 'self defense' - that's as it should be. I'm all for self defense and don't believe anyone should have the 'duty to retreat', but if you chase someone down, start getting your (butt) beat then draw and shoot, you're a murderer in my book.

 

[92tide]

So you're saying Zimmermann roughed himself up?

its been known to happen

 

[twofbyc]

It was his father's girlfriend's house. Now whether the father lives there or not, I don't know. The girlfriend is white, and it is my understanding that the neighborhood is predominately white.

And for those who don't know, Sanford is a suburb to the north of Orlando.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, riz...but isn't Sanford kinda like Beulah, in certain respects?

 

[gmart74]

It was his father's girlfriend's house. Now whether the father lives there or not, I don't know. The girlfriend is white, and it is my understanding that the neighborhood is predominately white.

And for those who don't know, Sanford is a suburb to the north of Orlando.

are you sure it is predominantly white and not hispanic? i ask bc i saw the movie "friday" and it seemed to indicate that ice cube wasn't allowed to date his hispanic neighbor.

 

[cbi1972]

It is at least as likely as the notion that the kid attacked him for no reason. After all, the kid was dead, and he shot him.

"no reason" ? There could have been several reasons, not the least of which is he was scared.

 

[SimplyTide]

In my state, if you escalate (chase after / confront) someone, you'll have VERY tough time claiming any shooting as 'self defense' - that's as it should be. I'm all for self defense and don't believe anyone should have the 'duty to retreat', but if you chase someone down, start getting your (butt) beat then draw and shoot, you're a murderer in my book.

Agreed - Even if every other scenario plays out in Zimmerman's favor, he is guilty of murder because he provoked the kid. If he just minds his own business, everyone makes it home safe that night. Heck, even if you agree that he did the right thing by calling the cops (and I do not), he could have prevented this by just following the direction of the police officer that told him not to follow the kid when he ran away.

 

[92tide]

are you sure it is predominantly white and not hispanic? i ask bc i saw the movie "friday" and it seemed to indicate that ice cube wasn't allowed to date his hispanic neighbor.

white and hispanic are not mutually exclusive. one can be hispanic and white, or hispanic and black for that matter

 

[SimplyTide]

"no reason" ? There could have been several reasons, not the least of which is he was scared.

Sure - and where, in any scenario, is it not totally Zimmerman's fault? This kid was totally innocent - he was walking home from the store. I am not sure what your point is. That the kid might have spooked and jumped the guy who was chasing him? That wouldn't change anything in my mind.

 

[cbi1972]

white and hispanic are not mutually exclusive. one can be hispanic and white, or hispanic and black for that matter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanford,_Florida

White or Caucasian (including White Hispanic)
57.3%

(Non-Hispanic White or Caucasian)
45.0%

Black or African-American
30.5%

Hispanic or Latino (of any race)
20.2%

Asian
2.8%

Native American or Native Alaskan
0.5%

 

[cbi1972]

Sure - and where, in any scenario, is it not totally Zimmerman's fault? This kid was totally innocent - he was walking home from the store. I am not sure what your point is. That the kid might have spooked and jumped the guy who was chasing him? That wouldn't change anything in my mind.

It may not matter to you, but it has everything to do with whether the killing was self defense. Zimmerman has no obligation to refrain from following people and asking them questions, regardless of what someone at 911 says.

 

[92tide]

It may not matter to you, but it has everything to do with whether the killing was self defense. Zimmerman has no obligation to refrain from following people and asking them questions, regardless of what someone at 911 says.

maybe, but that gives him no right to kill them

 

[cbi1972]

maybe, but that gives him no right to kill them

"Right to kill" is mighty subjective when you're being attacked.

 

[SimplyTide]

It may not matter to you, but it has everything to do with whether the killing was self defense. Zimmerman has no obligation to refrain from following people and asking them questions, regardless of what someone at 911 says.

No, it does not. The kid might have been acting in self-defense, but the man was the provoker, and as such, he is the one responsible for actions that result from his provocation.

Kick a hornet's nest, then complain that you got stung - watch people laugh at you. In this case, he kicked a hornet's nest, got stung, then pulled out a flame thrower to get even.In the process, he burned down his entire house.

 

[cbi1972]

No, it does not. The kid might have been acting in self-defense, but the man was the provoker, and as such, he is the one responsible for actions that result from his provocation.

Kick a hornet's nest, then complain that you got stung - watch people laugh at you. In this case, he kicked a hornet's nest, got stung, then pulled out a flame thrower to get even.

So following someone and asking questions is provocation to fight?