Blog: Debating cross-divisional rivalries

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We've talked about it before, but I wonder if the demographic shift, UT's poor recruiting base in-state and financial reality may prevent UT from returning to national prominence on anything other than an occasional basis.
 
We've talked about it before, but I wonder if the demographic shift, UT's poor recruiting base in-state and financial reality may prevent UT from returning to national prominence on anything other than an occasional basis.

I doubt it. People said Alabama's time had passed in the early 2000s and we've all been saying the same thing about Notre Dame for the last 2 decades. Put the right guy at UT and they'll rebound.
 
I doubt it. People said Alabama's time had passed in the early 2000s and we've all been saying the same thing about Notre Dame for the last 2 decades. Put the right guy at UT and they'll rebound.
Problem is they've gotten their AD into such a financial bind, I don't know how long it'll be before they can even afford the right guy. I used to have a good source there, but he retired. Of course, with AU's permanent pay-off payroll, you'd think they'd be in a money bind. However, they seem to have endless money, even with Colonial gone...
 
I doubt it. People said Alabama's time had passed in the early 2000s and we've all been saying the same thing about Notre Dame for the last 2 decades. Put the right guy at UT and they'll rebound.

I agree the right guy could could probably do it... but that's going to be a very tough guy to find. They've got very different issues compared to Alabama's of the early 2000s.

South Carolina and Clemson coming to prominence was not a good development for them. They need us out of the state of Georgia and they need Georgia to weaken as well. They are consistently in 4th or 5th place in the state of Georgia, 3rd or worse in South Carolina, 3rd or worse in the state of Alabama, and the list goes on and on with just about all their neighboring states. Worse of all, Vanderbilt has become competitive in the state of Tennessee and Alabama regularly poaches the top talent from that state as well.

The right guy, the one in a million coach, might could turn it around. But it's going to take a lot of outside developments in addition to the right coach.
 
Problem is they've gotten their AD into such a financial bind, I don't know how long it'll be before they can even afford the right guy. I used to have a good source there, but he retired. Of course, with AU's permanent pay-off payroll, you'd think they'd be in a money bind. However, they seem to have endless money, even with Colonial gone...

Their financial status certainly doesn't bode well for the next several years. We've seen the thread on Weiss' buyout. Tennessee is paying all or part of 6 staffs in men's basketball and football. It's a big hole to dig out of. I don't know how long it will take, but I would expect them to eventually solve their liquidity problem.

I agree the right guy could could probably do it... but that's going to be a very tough guy to find. They've got very different issues compared to Alabama's of the early 2000s.

South Carolina and Clemson coming to prominence was not a good development for them. They need us out of the state of Georgia and they need Georgia to weaken as well. They are consistently in 4th or 5th place in the state of Georgia, 3rd or worse in South Carolina, 3rd or worse in the state of Alabama, and the list goes on and on with just about all their neighboring states. Worse of all, Vanderbilt has become competitive in the state of Tennessee and Alabama regularly poaches the top talent from that state as well.

The right guy, the one in a million coach, might could turn it around. But it's going to take a lot of outside developments in addition to the right coach.

When we were fumbling through Dubose-fRan-Price-Shula message board posters and pundits alike would say that "because Alabama sits in the middle of all of the other states they have to recruit against everybody for instate talent." What they were missing was that, when we're up, we can also go into every state that borders us and plunder theirs. The same is true for EwwwT. When they get it rolling they can pull players from Arkansas, the Carolina's, Georgia, and Alabama.

For the record, I hate Tennessee too and hope they don't find the light at the end of the tunnel. I just don't think it takes the one in a million hire for them to out recruit USCe, Clemson, or Vandy. I'm not saying it will be soon, but eventually Tennessee will find their way out of the historical trough they're in now.
 
When we were fumbling through Dubose-fRan-Price-Shula message board posters and pundits alike would say that "because Alabama sits in the middle of all of the other states they have to recruit against everybody for instate talent." What they were missing was that, when we're up, we can also go into every state that borders us and plunder theirs. The same is true for EwwwT. When they get it rolling they can pull players from Arkansas, the Carolina's, Georgia, and Alabama.

For the record, I hate Tennessee too and hope they don't find the light at the end of the tunnel. I just don't think it takes the one in a million hire for them to out recruit USCe, Clemson, or Vandy. I'm not saying it will be soon, but eventually Tennessee will find their way out of the historical trough they're in now.

I don't believe they will be able to consistently go into Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina until the major teams in those states hit a down cycle. Unless they find a super recruiter like Saban. I guess my point is, they're in worse shape than we ever were. But I agree that history shows us things will eventually turn. Hopefully it's Georgia, Florida, and South Carolina that takes a dip, not us.
 
I'm an old timer and I wouldn't give you two cents for the Alabama Tennessee "rivalry." Let's move on to a better conference schedule that will allow Bama to play more conference teams.
 
Just trying to think outside the box, and find a way to make it work for those wanting just an 8 SEC game schedule AND keep the more important rivalries, which is probably only 2. What if you stay at 8 games, with 2 cross division rotating schedule. Then let those TRUE traditional rivalries, Bama-UT and GA-Barners, continue WITHOUT having them count as an SEC game. Yes, its VERY outside the box, but is it a possible compromise?
 
Just trying to think outside the box, and find a way to make it work for those wanting just an 8 SEC game schedule AND keep the more important rivalries, which is probably only 2. What if you stay at 8 games, with 2 cross division rotating schedule. Then let those TRUE traditional rivalries, Bama-UT and GA-Barners, continue WITHOUT having them count as an SEC game. Yes, its VERY outside the box, but is it a possible compromise?

If they are eliminated, I look for UGA and *U to play OOC in the years they are not scheduled by the SEC. Using an old Danny Ford triple negative: UGA and Auburn ain't never not played. They have played every year in which both fielded a football team ever since both started playing football. I don't see that ending.
 
Just trying to think outside the box, and find a way to make it work for those wanting just an 8 SEC game schedule AND keep the more important rivalries, which is probably only 2. What if you stay at 8 games, with 2 cross division rotating schedule. Then let those TRUE traditional rivalries, Bama-UT and GA-Barners, continue WITHOUT having them count as an SEC game. Yes, its VERY outside the box, but is it a possible compromise?

Sure, you could do that, I think Alabama and Ole Miss had some games back in the 70s that didnt count as a conference game. But what would be the point in playing a game that doesnt count within the conference? It would actually be quite dangerous, actually. The selection committee and influential sports media would likely view as a conference game anyway - so if you won or lost it would impact you mightily with the voters. Secondly, it does nothing for you from a recruiting standpoint. Lastly, and most importantly, it would be worthless TV for CBS and ESPN - no conference implications.

How many fans within each fanbase really care about playing their traditional rival when there is nothing really riding on it? I think if you put a gun to UGA's head, I think they could live without their rivalry with GaTech. What does it do for them? They already have the Cocktail Party and Auburn rivalries that mean waaay more. Would UGA sacrifice that game if they thought 9 conference games would make them, say another $5-10M per year. I would. Same goes with USC and Clemson, but less so. To me the hardest rivalry to give up would be the FL-FSU rivalry. That is a rivalry that is always going to have some national significance.

Really, to me the SEC is taking a real gamble that their 8 game conference schedule is going to be viewed as strong or stronger than everyone else's 9 game schedule. I am not buying it - mainly because the selection committee will at best have 20% representation from the SEC region. To me if you have the upper hand, you ought to work to keep it. If you are willing to give up some leverage you risk losing all of it. Sure OM, MSU, and Vandy, and KU arent for an 9 game schedule because it likely means another loss for them. But it also means more money they can reinvest in their program and make it more competitive. The real sticking point in this whole mess is UGA, USC, and FL wanting to keep their OOC rivals. If they were willing to give those up, OM, MSU, Vandy, and KU could do nothing to stop going to a 9 game schedule.

The best course is for the SEC to adopt a 9 game conference schedule with or without permanent cross-division rivals (I could care less). Seriously, when you are beating the crap out of people do you really care who it is after a while? Its just the next name on the list... In addition to the expanded conference game schedule, the SEC should work with the teams to setup a 10th "money" game either at home or neutral site with another conference like the ACC or Big 12. Such an arrangement would add OCC strength to the schedule for playoff purposes and you could effectively market those areas without having to necessarily expand with those teams. Let the bottom feeders from both conferences do home & home games since they may not be attractive neutral site games. Put the marquee teams in neutral site matchups in Dallas, Houston, New Orleans, St Louis, Kansas City, Atlanta, Charlotte, and DC over a two week period at the beginning of the season.
 
Just trying to think outside the box, and find a way to make it work for those wanting just an 8 SEC game schedule AND keep the more important rivalries, which is probably only 2. What if you stay at 8 games, with 2 cross division rotating schedule. Then let those TRUE traditional rivalries, Bama-UT and GA-Barners, continue WITHOUT having them count as an SEC game. Yes, its VERY outside the box, but is it a possible compromise?
If you wish to think outside the box, why not let teams wanting to keep tradition continue and let all the crybabies rotate. The fact is most teams are perfectly happy with their permanent games. It's mostly Les can't handle the cycle isn't working in his favor right now.
 
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What is so difficult with simply a 9 game rotating schedule; some years you may get a tougher draw than other teams but it should balance out. The top 2 teams play for the SECC. I just do not see the disadvantages.
 
What is so difficult with simply a 9 game rotating schedule; some years you may get a tougher draw than other teams but it should balance out. The top 2 teams play for the SECC. I just do not see the disadvantages.
The issue is the number of home games every other year. You'd have 5 one year and 4 the next. With only 3 non conference games scheduling becomes more difficult especially to teams who have big non conference rivalries. That brings up another point. We don't ask those teams to drop their rivals so why drop ours?
 
The issue is the number of home games every other year. You'd have 5 one year and 4 the next. With only 3 non conference games scheduling becomes more difficult especially to teams who have big non conference rivalries. That brings up another point. We don't ask those teams to drop their rivals so why drop ours?

Teams with big non conference rivalries could either keep them or drop them it would be their choice. I am sure Clemson, FSU and Ga Tech could feast on Wofford, FAU and Georgia State.
 
I'm still hoping the SEC will eventually consider the 0-3-5 scheduling format. No divisions...3 permanent rivals...5 rotating opponents. Then the top two overall teams play for the championship. Every team plays every other team at least twice every four years. Problem solved.
 
For years, the Tennessee game was my favorite game. Nothing said fall and college football like "The Third Saturday in October." The crimson helmets clashing against the orange jerseys looked like the changing of the leaves that come with the changing of the seasons. I loved that game. But Phil Fulmer and his cronies destroyed it. The hatred and vitriol that resulted has tarnished the game forever for me.

The SEC has already taken the money over tradition route with the expansions in 1992 and last year. If I could be in charge of the decisions, I'd actually move Auburn to the East Division, and Missouri to the West and end the Iron Bowl. That game delivers little to me anymore as well, for similar reasons as the Tennessee game. I realize I'm in the minority, but I'm in favor of allowing the permanent crossover games to end. Unless they go to a 9 game schedule. Then the permanent crossover game can remain intact.
I agree that our crossover games aren't what they used to be, plus... Auburn means nothing anymore, Auburn actually has more in common with the SEC East than the West... Send em packing.
 
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