JessN: Auburn wrap-up: Another miracle finish, because Alabama couldn’t finish

dayhiker

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i just wish we would've run right on the 4 and 1 instead of left. they had all of the left side gaps plugged and they were stacked heavy to that side, but the right side gaps looked plenty loose and yeldon could've easily made 2-3 yards.

It seems like when 45 lines up in the backfield on short yardage, we throw a screen to him. I would have liked for them to just hand him the dang ball on that 4th and 1.
 

bamacon

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And that what's baffling. But it is not hard to see how they're doing it. They load the box and dare us to pass. Did it the entire game.
And what ticks off everyone is that you have a 5th year senior QB who is a leading Heisman candidate, who has 3 BCS rings, a 900 + winning percentage, argubly the best WR corps that UA has ever fielded, and a beast TE who runs a 4.4 going against a defense whose glaring weakness is defending the pass. I understand wanting to be balanced and all but why not shred the hell out of your opponent in the way that will clearly be most effective? If I knew nothing about the situation I would have come to 2 possible conclusions 1) a very inexperienced staff planned this game or 2) we did not watch ANY film on the opponent. What I saw last Saturday astonished me.
 

TideFan in AU

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And what ticks off everyone is that you have a 5th year senior QB who is a leading Heisman candidate, who has 3 BCS rings, a 900 + winning percentage, argubly the best WR corps that UA has ever fielded, and a beast TE who runs a 4.4 going against a defense whose glaring weakness is defending the pass. I understand wanting to be balanced and all but why not shred the hell out of your opponent in the way that will clearly be most effective? If I knew nothing about the situation I would have come to 2 possible conclusions 1) a very inexperienced staff planned this game or 2) we did not watch ANY film on the opponent. What I saw last Saturday astonished me.
I have thought about this as well, and have even said some of the same things here on the board. The only thing I can think of is he went more conservative to help the defense stay off the field. AU was really pounding the ball, and I believe CNS when he says the HUNH offense is hard on a defense. I have to think that Coach was trying to save the defense, because if we had won, they would be facing another physical team this week (whether it was MIZZ or USCe - we didn't at the time which one it would be). Our defense took a licking unlike I've seen in a LONG time Sat night. I also believe that was the same reason he went for FG instead of OT.

Now the argument can be made that if we had scored enough, AU would have had to have thrown the ball to catch. In a perfect world, that is the best way to beat a team like AU. Mistakes and missed opportunities in the 1st quarter probably kept up from having a more comfortable lead later in the game.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that what I would guess. I personally would have put the ball in AJ's hands late in the 4th quarter, but if we make that 4th and 1 or any one of the FG's, we are talking about MIZZ right now and not questioning if CNS gets this rivalry or puts enough importance on the Iron Bowl...
 

TideFan in AU

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I see your point - but seriously?
I don't know what you think I was saying here, but I was not saying that I think we were going to run off CNS for this loss. What I simply meant that when Coach Stallings left, who was 70-16 and being widely criticized for being too conservative and getting outcoached by Spurrier, our prograam took a huge nosedive. The people who were criticizing CGS would have loved had him back for any year between '98 and '06 except for maybe 1999.

The bottom line is we are going to miss CNS when he leaves, and we are most likely not going to get a coach that will achieve close to what he has. Nobody works harder than he does, and nobody in 30+ years has acheived the success he has in his career.

With this in mind, I'm not going to lose my mind over losing a close to our rival, who happens to have a very good team right.
 

bamacpa

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We might need to give Auburn some more credit. For all they don't have, they used what advantages they did have to great success. The thing that hurts me is that we didn't do the same in this game.
 

JessN

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It's sports and perfection is not obtainable. You try your best but you won't achieve perfection. Teams come out flat from time to time and it is what it is. Alabama has had more consistent play than any other team over the last 5 years by a mile. What magic changes in preparation could Saban have made to make the outcome any different? He has a proven system of preparing his men for battle and it works well 90% of the time. He isn't going to change and why should he. It's his core philosophy.

My answer is yes that the last seven years of football under Coach Saban is absolutely 100% acceptable even with a 4-3 record against Auburn. If the answer is no and a majority of the spoiled fan base starts singing that mantra then we might just run off arguably the best college football coach in the history of the game. We should be thanking Coach Saban for his leadership and give him another raise this year. I hope the administration has enough foresight to realize this.

Want to show Saban how much we appreciate him? Give him a big raise even when we don't reach the mountain top. It would make a huge statement to him and 100% guarantee he will be an Alabama man till he retires. I guarantee there are many teams willing to pay him 8 to 10 million a year even with his "unacceptable record" against Auburn. Are we willing to pony up and pay him his market value this year? I hope so. Our administration best not be penny wise and dollar foolish on this.

I don't think the point of this article went over my head at all. It was a criticism of Coach Saban and his record against Auburn implying that he doesn't "get the rivalry" and 4-3 against Auburn is unacceptable no matter the circumstance. I think this kind of article and those who agree with it is an example of the spoiled fan base that Terry Saban may have been alluding to. It shows the stunning arrogance and unrealistic expectations that some Alabama fans have.

We accuse Auburn of being obsessed with Alabama but we can't even be secure in a historic run of dominance and championships because we lost a couple of heart-breakers to Auburn and they got a championship of their own? I believe Alabama's greatness makes Auburn better. They use it for fuel and judge themselves against it. Good for them. Alabama judges itself against itself not Auburn. Auburn should not define Alabama but when one infers that Coach Saban's body of work is not acceptable because of the record with Auburn that is exactly what they are doing.

Enjoy this run and take pride in what has been accomplished and give thanks to the man's leadership who has made it possible. We shouldn't nitpick him because our egos have a hard time listening to crap from Auburn co-workers and neighbors. Maybe Coach Saban has more to teach us about how to approach and view the Auburn Rivalry than we do him. Anyone ever think of that?
I will quote Nick Saban himself, introductory press conference, as closely as I can remember it: "We have an opponent across the state we will work 365 days a year to dominate."

Has that been done? No. It also invalidates the argument that Auburn should be treated as just another game. Or, I missed the statement where he singled out a team in Starkville, Miss., for the same treatment.

Since 2007, Alabama is 5-3 against an LSU team that has gone 72-20 with 8-5 being the worst record. In the same time frame, Alabama is 4-3 against an Auburn team that is 58-31, with two losing seasons, two more 8-5 seasons and an average record during this time of 7.8 wins and 4.2 losses. Is this dominating? If not, why make special mention of the need to do it upon arrival in Tuscaloosa?

As for the 3 BCS titles during this time, no one is downplaying that. But I will again refer to a Saban-ism: It's not what you did, it's what you're doing.

If you're uncomfortable with me pointing this numbers out, I can't help that. If the goal at Alabama is to keep winning championships, you've got to find a way to stop losing the 12th game of the regular season roughly every other year -- whether it comes against Auburn or whoever.

But don't portend to tell me that this is being overblown when the coach himself all but called out Auburn by name on day one on the job.
 

B1GTide

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I will quote Nick Saban himself, introductory press conference, as closely as I can remember it: "We have an opponent across the state we will work 365 days a year to dominate."

Has that been done? No. It also invalidates the argument that Auburn should be treated as just another game. Or, I missed the statement where he singled out a team in Starkville, Miss., for the same treatment.

Since 2007, Alabama is 5-3 against an LSU team that has gone 72-20 with 8-5 being the worst record. In the same time frame, Alabama is 4-3 against an Auburn team that is 58-31, with two losing seasons, two more 8-5 seasons and an average record during this time of 7.8 wins and 4.2 losses. Is this dominating? If not, why make special mention of the need to do it upon arrival in Tuscaloosa?

As for the 3 BCS titles during this time, no one is downplaying that. But I will again refer to a Saban-ism: It's not what you did, it's what you're doing.

If you're uncomfortable with me pointing this numbers out, I can't help that. If the goal at Alabama is to keep winning championships, you've got to find a way to stop losing the 12th game of the regular season roughly every other year -- whether it comes against Auburn or whoever.

But don't portend to tell me that this is being overblown when the coach himself all but called out Auburn by name on day one on the job.
First, Saban called Auburn by name because he knew that this is what the fans wanted and needed to hear. It was another version of coach speak. Read more into it if you wish, but I think that you are making a mistake if you do so.

Second, If Alabama wins another 3 national championships over the next 7 years while losing 3 or 4 times to Auburn, Saban will have far exceeded any/all of Alabama's wildest dreams for his tenure at Alabama.

You are free to form your own opinions, and you can call out individual remarks to back them up, but one stat supercedes all of that - your number of national championships under Saban. The rest really doesn't matter.
 

JessN

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First, Saban called Auburn by name because he knew that this is what the fans wanted and needed to hear. It was another version of coach speak. Read more into it if you wish, but I think that you are making a mistake if you do so.

Second, If Alabama wins another 3 national championships over the next 7 years while losing 3 or 4 times to Auburn, Saban will have far exceeded any/all of Alabama's wildest dreams for his tenure at Alabama.

You are free to form your own opinions, and you can call out individual remarks to back them up, but one stat supercedes all of that - your number of national championships under Saban. The rest really doesn't matter.
If he didn't mean it, he shouldn't have said it. We have no way to know he didn't mean it, unless you're in his head, and you're not. I'll choose to go with the quote until he says something different.

As for whether the Auburn series record matters or not, even in light of national championships -- it absolutely does. Most of the same people who are saying "Oh, 4-3 doesn't matter" would be crowing about a 5-2 record had Alabama won the game. I don't buy into selective affirmation.
 

B1GTide

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If he didn't mean it, he shouldn't have said it. We have no way to know he didn't mean it, unless you're in his head, and you're not. I'll choose to go with the quote until he says something different.

As for whether the Auburn series record matters or not, even in light of national championships -- it absolutely does. Most of the same people who are saying "Oh, 4-3 doesn't matter" would be crowing about a 5-2 record had Alabama won the game. I don't buy into selective affirmation.
You have indicated many times in the past that Saban has used coach speak, whether it be to send messages to his team through the media, or for some other purpose. When I point out a different interpretation, I have "no way of knowing he didn't mean it unless I am in his head". Really?

You are guilty of exactly what so many Alabama fans accuse Auburn fans of every day - putting more focus on your in state rival than your program. Saban is focused on the Alabama program and the development of the players. If you think that he isn't telling you the truth, call him on it. If you are not happy with the results, tell him. You have access - I don't.

I only see what everyone else sees - and that is the best coach in the business - a man who has taken Alabama back to the mountain top. It seems to me that you see a failure and/or a liar because he hasn't beaten Auburn enough to make you happy.
 

imauafan

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You have indicated many times in the past that Saban has used coach speak, whether it be to send messages to his team through the media, or for some other purpose. When I point out a different interpretation, I have "no way of knowing he didn't mean it unless I am in his head". Really?

You are guilty of exactly what so many Alabama fans accuse Auburn fans of every day - putting more focus on your in state rival than your program. Saban is focused on the Alabama program and the development of the players. If you think that he isn't telling you the truth, call him on it. If you are not happy with the results, tell him. You have access - I don't.

I only see what everyone else sees - and that is the best coach in the business - a man who has taken Alabama back to the mountain top. It seems to me that you see a failure and/or a liar because he hasn't beaten Auburn enough to make you happy.
What was John Cooper's downfall at Ohio State? Was it not winning a NC or was it because he could not beat Michigan? Wasn't there a year or two that if he had beaten Michigan then OSU would have played for the NC? My memory is a bit fuzzy but that is the way that I remember it.
 

CrimsonEyeshade

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What was John Cooper's downfall at Ohio State? Was it not winning a NC or was it because he could not beat Michigan? Wasn't there a year or two that if he had beaten Michigan then OSU would have played for the NC? My memory is a bit fuzzy but that is the way that I remember it.
It's absolutely true that Cooper couldn't beat Michigan. Saban has beaten Auburn enough to win three titles, and compete for three more late into the season.

Strike out the first AU game, when we weren't very good and still could have won, every year Malzahn has had a quarterback who could call a play and chew gum at the same time, they have given us serious problems. Let's give them a little credit.

And it will be fascinating to watch in the years ahead: two vastly different approaches to a power running game. In the end, they won this year because they were better at being Auburn than we were at being ourselves.
 

Ledsteplin

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After reading most of this long thread, I'm reminded of what Bear Bryant said about losing.

“It’s awfully important to win with humility. It’s also important to lose. I hate to lose worse than anyone, but if you never lose you won’t know how to act. If you lose with humility, then you can come back.” - Bear Bryant
 

Mob-Bama

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What was John Cooper's downfall at Ohio State? Was it not winning a NC or was it because he could not beat Michigan? Wasn't there a year or two that if he had beaten Michigan then OSU would have played for the NC? My memory is a bit fuzzy but that is the way that I remember it.
To me, this is totally irrelevant to the discussion and seems like just a shot at BIG that serves no purpose.
 

B1GTide

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What was John Cooper's downfall at Ohio State? Was it not winning a NC or was it because he could not beat Michigan? Wasn't there a year or two that if he had beaten Michigan then OSU would have played for the NC? My memory is a bit fuzzy but that is the way that I remember it.
Both - he had 3 seasons like Alabama's season this year - undefeated going into the game and losing to good Michigan teams, but teams that were not nearly as good as the Buckeyes. He never won a championship because he never could win the last game of the season. That game happened to be against Michigan. And there were some dominant OSU teams in that era.

Think about it - his record against Michigan was 2-10-1. Michigan played the spoiler for us, but we could not do them the same favor in 1997. It eventually cost him his job.
 

Atl Joe

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BigTide, I appreciate your viewpoints. You provide a good perspective and historical knowledge so I will try to return some perspective of how monumental this loss was.
Do you remember OSU vs. Michigan at The Shoe in 1995? If so, you know where I am going with this.

OSU's roster included (and I hope I remember all off them) Eddie George, Terry Glenn, Orlando Pace, Ricky Dudley, Shawn Springs, Mike Vrabel, Antoine Winfield, Andy Katzenmoyer, Bobby Hoying, Rob Kelly and Matt Finkes. (The only player I can even remember on the Michigan roster was Tim Biakabutuka. ) The disparity in talent was that BIG. OSU was playing at home against their rival. Win, and they punch their ticket to the Rose Bowl, National Championship and Heisman (which Eddie George still won). Cooper did not have them ready at all and, in spite of all of that talent, they still lost which sent them to “Citrus City”. If I remember correctly, Cooper was ready to be tarred and feathered for that one despite the success he had had to that point. Losing to your rival is bad, but losing to them when you are clearly at an advantage with so much on the line is like an extra poke in the eye.

Although I am sure time has taken away the sting of that day for Buckeye fans, it is NOT forgotten due to the sheer magnitude of the loss to Michigan because of all that was at stake. A loss is a loss but a loss to your rival under these similar circumstances and how it happens leaves few if any excuses.

With all of the talent on that team, and I am not sure I can even remember anyone else EVER being that loaded, OSU was as flat as a pancake. When I watched that OSU game in 1995 I had the same disbelief in what I was seeing that I had last Saturday. I saw what was happening; I just did not understand HOW it was happening. Alabama was not focused for their rivalry game. I am not sure what else their focus could have been on that day but I would love it if someone with team insight could explain what caused this lack of focus and urgency. The loss was not because Auburn was the better team. Their coach is NOT a genius and the read option is NOT that hard to defend especially with the talent and coaching Alabama has. Defending this type of offense certainly was not a problem against UF and Tebow who were light years better than Auburn on both sides of the ball. Alabama had the talent and coaching to win this one easily but sometimes even your process needs a little positive, aggressive, emotional, game time fuel to make it run. Alabama should have been salivating at the chance to pound on Auburn with Kubrickian glee and it was inexplicably not there.

Jess N is right. No one is saying Saban is a bad coach, but did the team lack focus and preparation? Absolutely. For a rivalry game, there is little excuse for that.
 

dayhiker

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I will quote Nick Saban himself, introductory press conference, as closely as I can remember it: "We have an opponent across the state we will work 365 days a year to dominate."

Has that been done? No. It also invalidates the argument that Auburn should be treated as just another game. Or, I missed the statement where he singled out a team in Starkville, Miss., for the same treatment.

Since 2007, Alabama is 5-3 against an LSU team that has gone 72-20 with 8-5 being the worst record. In the same time frame, Alabama is 4-3 against an Auburn team that is 58-31, with two losing seasons, two more 8-5 seasons and an average record during this time of 7.8 wins and 4.2 losses. Is this dominating? If not, why make special mention of the need to do it upon arrival in Tuscaloosa?

As for the 3 BCS titles during this time, no one is downplaying that. But I will again refer to a Saban-ism: It's not what you did, it's what you're doing.

If you're uncomfortable with me pointing this numbers out, I can't help that. If the goal at Alabama is to keep winning championships, you've got to find a way to stop losing the 12th game of the regular season roughly every other year -- whether it comes against Auburn or whoever.

But don't portend to tell me that this is being overblown when the coach himself all but called out Auburn by name on day one on the job.
Considering the huge disparity in hardware in the two schools trophy cases, the series record is shockingly close.
 

TideEngineer08

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I will quote Nick Saban himself, introductory press conference, as closely as I can remember it: "We have an opponent across the state we will work 365 days a year to dominate."

Has that been done? No. It also invalidates the argument that Auburn should be treated as just another game. Or, I missed the statement where he singled out a team in Starkville, Miss., for the same treatment.

Since 2007, Alabama is 5-3 against an LSU team that has gone 72-20 with 8-5 being the worst record. In the same time frame, Alabama is 4-3 against an Auburn team that is 58-31, with two losing seasons, two more 8-5 seasons and an average record during this time of 7.8 wins and 4.2 losses. Is this dominating? If not, why make special mention of the need to do it upon arrival in Tuscaloosa?

As for the 3 BCS titles during this time, no one is downplaying that. But I will again refer to a Saban-ism: It's not what you did, it's what you're doing.

If you're uncomfortable with me pointing this numbers out, I can't help that. If the goal at Alabama is to keep winning championships, you've got to find a way to stop losing the 12th game of the regular season roughly every other year -- whether it comes against Auburn or whoever.

But don't portend to tell me that this is being overblown when the coach himself all but called out Auburn by name on day one on the job.
It's not quite fair to point out Auburn's overall record during the past 7 seasons in comparison to LSU's, when two of the losses we've suffered to Auburn came at the hands of teams that were a combined 21-1 when we played them. Talent levels aside, those teams had such an impressive record for a reason. I'd argue that we were most certainly not a better team in 2010. More talented? Sure. But we had proven over the course of the season that we were lacking as a team. In 2007, our problems with getting emotionally prepared for games did not start with Auburn; they were just the last game in a line of games that we weren't prepared. It was Nick Saban's first team after all, and old habits (Shula) die hard.

You say most fans are going to have a problem with this, but I'm one fan who does not. I've said it already, but I am utterly disappointed in the loss. We WERE the better, more talented team this time and we let it slip away. BUT... I am extremely proud of the run Nick Saban has been on, 4-3 against Auburn be damned. And I'll be even more impressed if he equals that run over the next 7 years and still goes 4-3 against the barn again.
 

imauafan

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Both - he had 3 seasons like Alabama's season this year - undefeated going into the game and losing to good Michigan teams, but teams that were not nearly as good as the Buckeyes. He never won a championship because he never could win the last game of the season. That game happened to be against Michigan. And there were some dominant OSU teams in that era.

Think about it - his record against Michigan was 2-10-1. Michigan played the spoiler for us, but we could not do them the same favor in 1997. It eventually cost him his job.
Precisely. My point was not to take a shot at you or to say that Nick Saban is in danger of losing his job if he doesn't beat Auburn every year. I was simply pointing out the signficance of losing to your rival which is what I believe JessN was also doing. I appreciate your input to the board even when I don't agree with you. I also enjoy JessN's input and consider him and Cecil Hurt to be the very best reporters/writers of UA sports. The loss still hurts and the back and forth discussion helps me to get over it. In another week I will have gotten over it but for now it still hurts.
 

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