JessN: Auburn wrap-up: Another miracle finish, because Alabama couldn’t finish

Atl Joe

1st Team
Nov 27, 2010
405
5
37
With Saban as your head coach, you have only lost once (this past week) with the better team. They had the better team in 2007 and 2010.
It is not just the loss that is the issue, it is the manner and conditions of the loss that needs consideration.
In 2010, I am not so sure Auburn had the better team; a freak player for sure, but a better team, not so much. Either way, Alabama had a 24 point lead at home and let it slip away.

In 2013, Alabama was a much more talented team and held a 14 point lead and let it slip away. That makes the pill very bitter in both losses and raises the question "how did it happen?". If this explanation was clear, fans would have less of an issue with the losses.

2010 resulted in Auburn winning the National Championship. 2013 cost Alabama a National Championship. Very bitter.
 

Bamabuzzard

FB Moderator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2004
33,213
27,922
337
49
Where ever there's BBQ, Bourbon & Football
Me too. Dubose and Shula darn sure make me appreciate Saban.
To be honest in this day and age of football and considering how popular the SEC has become with the top recruits. I'm not sure "dominating" Auburn will be as likely as some want it to be. I think if we beat them over 50% of the time then we're having success. Unless a program completely goes into the dumpster like Tennessee I don't think we're going to see many nine year winning streaks against Auburn. Nor will they have any six year runs on us.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
47,874
55,183
187
It is not just the loss that is the issue, it is the manner and conditions of the loss that needs consideration.
In 2010, I am not so sure Auburn had the better team; a freak player for sure, but a better team, not so much. Either way, Alabama had a 24 point lead at home and let it slip away.

In 2013, Alabama was a much more talented team and held a 14 point lead and let it slip away. That makes the pill very bitter in both losses and raises the question "how did it happen?". If this explanation was clear, fans would have less of an issue with the losses.

2010 resulted in Auburn winning the National Championship. 2013 cost Alabama a National Championship. Very bitter.
You are going to lose some games that you should win. You are going to win some games that you should lose (LSU last season). That is sports. You can try to make more of it if you wish, but it is a waste of time, IMO. It is like trying to understand why good things happen to bad people, and bad things to good people. It just twists your mind.
 
Last edited:

Tradition4ever

1st Team
Oct 16, 2004
463
4
142
48
Carlsbad, NM
This loss shouldn't serve as a measuring stick of the program as a whole. It doesn't alter the path of success that this program is on, nor does it condemn CNS's approach as a program leader. He's experienced in his time at Alabama a very rare level of success to be had in college football. That won't change after this loss. The only thing that I believe will change regarding Saban and his approach will be recruiting a number of different type of athlete on defense to better suit defensive schemes created to combat the HUNH offenses we will face in conference moving forward.

Maybe this game was just a microcosm of the issues this team had coming home to roost. All of the things that led to this loss were known issues that we as fans had seen and commented on this season, but the team had been able to overcome those issues before last Saturday. We all knew that this season's O-line had consistency and communication issues, and we saw this at key times again Saturday night. We all knew that as a result of the O-line issues, the offense could be either explosive and dominating on one series, then be baffling in its ineffectiveness on the next series. The defense also had issues that were known. Nothing more needs to be said about the defensive backfield. There was also an inconsistency along the D-line regarding its ability to generate penetration and control individual matchups. Special teams were strong most of the season, so the breakdowns there were hard to take. This just happened to be the game where all of these issues reared their ugly heads.
 

Atl Joe

1st Team
Nov 27, 2010
405
5
37
You are going to lose some games that you should win. You are going to win some games that you should lose (LSU last season). That is sports. You can try to make more of it if you wish, but it is a waste of time, IMO. It is like trying to understand why good things happen to bad people, and bad things to good people. It just twists your mind.
Your synopsis is correct, but the fact that the team it happened to twice, in such a relative short span of time, was Auburn does make a difference to the fanbase. If one of the losses would have happend to say Ole Miss and the other to LSU, the feelings would be different as they are two different teams and those fans are largely out of state. People do not see these losses to Auburn as random occurrences. Because Alabama was flat and blew leads in both games, to their rival, it raises questions as to why and how to the same team.
 

bamafaninOhiO

All-American
May 11, 2010
2,114
0
0
Dayton, Ohio
that article sounded kind of like Sabans job is in jeopardy....even after 3 titles in 4 years.

Wow. A little too harsh for a coach who has doen so much. Games get away at times, but cutting off your nose to spite your face i a bit too much.

even in the bitter Bama-Auburn rivalry.
 

CrimsonEyeshade

Hall of Fame
Nov 6, 2007
5,508
1,704
187
Yall are reading way too much into what I'm saying. I just made the observation, that, that winning percentage is out of line when you compare the overall production of both programs. Wikipedia lists us with 832, Auburn with 714. We both know the NC and Conf Champ. differences.

I'm done picking nits on this thread.
Wasn't singling you out, DH. You make a valid observation.

But the Auburn-takes-it-more-seriously-than-us theme is not only a part of this thread is rampant across the board. They take the game seriously. So do we. To cede the emotional impetus to Auburn after losses is a cop-out. Why wouldn't we take the game seriously? We were playing for history. We just didn't play well.
 
Last edited:

Bamabuzzard

FB Moderator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2004
33,213
27,922
337
49
Where ever there's BBQ, Bourbon & Football
Your synopsis is correct, but the fact that the team it happened to twice, in such a relative short span of time, was Auburn does make a difference to the fanbase. If one of the losses would have happend to say Ole Miss and the other to LSU, the feelings would be different as they are two different teams and those fans are largely out of state. People do not see these losses to Auburn as random occurrences. Because Alabama was flat and blew leads in both games, to their rival, it raises questions as to why and how to the same team.
I don't think anybody has an accurate answer as to why. It just (for whatever reason) has happened. Granted any rivalry game is a big deal to the fanbases. But how big of a deal is it worth making it, especially seeing the level of success we've had?

I think everyone has acknowledged (even CNS) that mistakes were made by the staff and the players. And I'm pretty sure the staff and the players are completely aware at how let down everyone is and probably are fully aware at how bad they played and coached.

All we can do as a fan base is take the loss for what it is and move on and trust in the staff and players coming back next season that they will rectify it. But continuing to escalate this loss isn't productive for anyone.
 

BigEasyTider

FB | REC Moderator
Nov 27, 2007
10,029
0
0
I will quote Nick Saban himself, introductory press conference, as closely as I can remember it: "We have an opponent across the state we will work 365 days a year to dominate."

Has that been done? No. It also invalidates the argument that Auburn should be treated as just another game. Or, I missed the statement where he singled out a team in Starkville, Miss., for the same treatment.

Since 2007, Alabama is 5-3 against an LSU team that has gone 72-20 with 8-5 being the worst record. In the same time frame, Alabama is 4-3 against an Auburn team that is 58-31, with two losing seasons, two more 8-5 seasons and an average record during this time of 7.8 wins and 4.2 losses. Is this dominating? If not, why make special mention of the need to do it upon arrival in Tuscaloosa?

As for the 3 BCS titles during this time, no one is downplaying that. But I will again refer to a Saban-ism: It's not what you did, it's what you're doing.

If you're uncomfortable with me pointing this numbers out, I can't help that. If the goal at Alabama is to keep winning championships, you've got to find a way to stop losing the 12th game of the regular season roughly every other year -- whether it comes against Auburn or whoever.

But don't portend to tell me that this is being overblown when the coach himself all but called out Auburn by name on day one on the job.
I just can't agree regarding the statement Saban made at his initial presser. You're talking about a single statement made six years ago -- which was probably written by someone else -- and which was made on literally his first day in Tuscaloosa. Even accepting that at face value (and I don't really see why we should given the circumstances), that statement nevertheless has to be counter-balanced by six (6) years of a course of conduct which has not placed any special attention on the Iron Bowl or Auburn in general, and has instead treated them as just another opponent. If anything, Saban himself has largely de-emphasized the traditional in-state tug-of-war between the two schools with his national recruiting strategy, and at this point the two schools are probably less interrelated than they have been at any point in modern history. While the Iron Bowl may still be the end-all, be-all for the fans who live in-state and who must co-exist with Auburn fans on a daily basis, on the greater program level I see absolutely nothing to indicate Saban has placed any special emphasis on them.

Now obviously we've had some pretty big choke-jobs against Auburn the past few years, although I do think it can be fairly argued that the 2010 loss really didn't matter at the end of the day (Auburn still makes Atlanta & Tempe and Newton still wins the Heisman even with a loss in that game). In total, though, we've won four of the last six, and while it is certainly frustrating, I don't think you can overlook the fact that Auburn has managed to pull out two nailbiter wins in the closing seconds, whereas three of our wins have been absolute dismembering blowouts (combined margin of victory 129-14). I have a hard time calling that a failure, and instead think it's mainly just some net bad luck on close games.

The bigger issue we have had is just generally poor play in the month of November the past four years. Since we went undefeated in 2009, we are something like a combined 36-1 in August, September, October, and December (only loss was to South Carolina in 2010), but in that same time period we have only gone 7-5 against BCS conference opponents in November, with two losses to LSU, two losses to Auburn, one loss to A&M, and a slew of ugly wins over poor-to-middling Mississippi State teams. It's kind of a different story every year, but the same general theme: We come out and play some ugly football in November and end up dropping a game or two that we should win, and in the end it costs us dearly. Obviously we've been very fortunate the past two years because we've been able to slip-up and lose in December and then have all the cards fall in our favor such that we can still reach the national championship game, but for obvious reasons that's not going to happen the overwhelming majority of the time, and so it came to pass this season. The current structure makes losing at any point a typically fatal error, but losing late is the ultimate no-no, and we've unfortunately developed a pretty nasty penchant for that as of the past four years.

Not sure if that's something we will improve on or not, but I will say that -- as much as I loathe it as a general proposition -- the institution of the four-team playoff next year will almost certainly help us in that regard. If we've got that system in place this year, the loss to Auburn would be meaningless in terms of the national championship race.
 
Last edited:

Bamabuzzard

FB Moderator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2004
33,213
27,922
337
49
Where ever there's BBQ, Bourbon & Football
Not sure if that's something we will improve on or not, but I will say that -- as much as I loathe it as a general proposition -- the institution of the four-team playoff next year will almost certainly help us in that regard. If we've got that system in place this year, the loss to Auburn would be meaningless in terms of the national championship race.
Yep. This playoff picture may actually water down some of the importance of the IB rivalry. Granted, you'll still have the bragging rights element of it between the fan bases but it lessens the likelihood one team could ruin the other's season with a defeat.
 

don5292

New Member
Jan 2, 2011
3
0
20
One other good outcome to hope for. After "Punt Bama Punt," Alabama went on a 9 game winning streak against Auburn. I hope Saban has the same fortune. Roll Tide!
 

crimsonbleeder

All-American
Dec 1, 2002
2,703
3
0
Birmingham, AL
Yep. This playoff picture may actually water down some of the importance of the IB rivalry. Granted, you'll still have the bragging rights element of it between the fan bases but it lessens the likelihood one team could ruin the other's season with a defeat.
...Unless, of course, the "Committee" only takes Conference Champs. Then every game is important, and the SECCG is absolutely over all.
 

Bamabuzzard

FB Moderator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2004
33,213
27,922
337
49
Where ever there's BBQ, Bourbon & Football
...Unless, of course, the "Committee" only takes Conference Champs. Then every game is important, and the SECCG is absolutely over all.
I heard Brad Edwards talk about this yesterday and he said though conference champs would be considered there are other criteria that would play into their decision. For example if you've got one conference champ with 2 losses yet have a team like Bama sitting there with only one loss on a freakish play to the #4 team in the country.
 

DrollTide

All-SEC
Oct 18, 2008
1,673
1,015
187
Hunts Patch
BTW we should recall that fluky wins happen to Alabama also. The blocked kicks to beat the '09 Vols comes to mind. Probably, no '09 championship without that. We also put ourselves in the position of requiring fluky losses by other teams to get the invite in '11 and '12. The fact is, the major ingredients to a championship are: great athletes, great coaches, and luck.

My point being, coach supplies the first two in abundance, and nobody has a monopoly on the third. Despite all the anguish, we are not yet mathematically dead for '13, and even without an NCG we will probably get a major bowl with an opponent who is going to get crushed. This is lamented as a disaster.
 

crimsonbleeder

All-American
Dec 1, 2002
2,703
3
0
Birmingham, AL
I heard Brad Edwards talk about this yesterday and he said though conference champs would be considered there are other criteria that would play into their decision. For example if you've got one conference champ with 2 losses yet have a team like Bama sitting there with only one loss on a freakish play to the #4 team in the country.
Wanna bet your house on that? Maybe you're right. Maybe Brad is right. But, truth is we have NO IDEA what those committee members are going to do. None. But given the level of SEC fatigue, and especially "Alabama fatigue", that we've seen this year, I sure ain't about to bet with you.
 

Bamabuzzard

FB Moderator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2004
33,213
27,922
337
49
Where ever there's BBQ, Bourbon & Football
Wanna bet your house on that? Maybe you're right. Maybe Brad is right. But, truth is we have NO IDEA what those committee members are going to do. None. But given the level of SEC fatigue, and especially "Alabama fatigue", that we've seen this year, I sure ain't about to bet with you.
Edwards said no one knows how the committee will go about it once behind closed doors. Actually, Edwards' opinion is this new playoff system is going to make people madder than the BCS did. He said the goal of the committee is to place the four teams that best meet the requirements into the playoff. Not necessarily the best teams. He said there will be no "eye ball" test like there is in the picking of the basketball brackets. Here are the requirements, who fits them best? How fun is that? LOL!
 

Special K

All-American
Feb 8, 2008
3,042
1,801
187
Edwards said no one knows how the committee will go about it once behind closed doors. Actually, Edwards' opinion is this new playoff system is going to make people madder than the BCS did. He said the goal of the committee is to place the four teams that best meet the requirements into the playoff. Not necessarily the best teams. He said there will be no "eye ball" test like there is in the picking of the basketball brackets. Here are the requirements, who fits them best? How fun is that? LOL!
Of course it will make people madder than the BCS, and no one will want to go back to the BCS model. So, guess what's next - yep, you knew it was coming - "We have to expand the playoff!".
 

marcusroby

1st Team
Jan 7, 2004
414
2
137
auburn,al usa
Yep. This playoff picture may actually water down some of the importance of the IB rivalry. Granted, you'll still have the bragging rights element of it between the fan bases but it lessens the likelihood one team could ruin the other's season with a defeat.
I'm probably a lil bit off target but the way the team is built and practices and even coaches is so reminiscent of an NFL team it's uncanny. Practices for a season against a brutal opponent and a seemingly shortened dept chart takes it's toll. Not to mention the pressure of playing to the standard of previous teams whether they admit ornot has to be a heavy weight.
 

JessN

Administrator & Editor-in-Chief
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
6,417
5,147
432
You have indicated many times in the past that Saban has used coach speak, whether it be to send messages to his team through the media, or for some other purpose. When I point out a different interpretation, I have "no way of knowing he didn't mean it unless I am in his head". Really?

You are guilty of exactly what so many Alabama fans accuse Auburn fans of every day - putting more focus on your in state rival than your program. Saban is focused on the Alabama program and the development of the players. If you think that he isn't telling you the truth, call him on it. If you are not happy with the results, tell him. You have access - I don't.

I only see what everyone else sees - and that is the best coach in the business - a man who has taken Alabama back to the mountain top. It seems to me that you see a failure and/or a liar because he hasn't beaten Auburn enough to make you happy.
I see a guy who needs to modify whatever he does in the 52nd week of the year. I don't want him fired and he's not a failure. But however this team prepares for Auburn -- it needs to be changed in some way. I don't deify football coaches, and I'm not going to write something saying, "Oh, it's ok, we'll get 'em next time, chin up!" when four times in the last seven years, Alabama has basically let Auburn drive the bus in this game. If Auburn is playing a good, mobile QB in 2009 then I don't want to think about it.

I've already explained, in depth and several times, why this is important -- because a loss here hurts worse (in more ways than one) than a loss in Week 3 does. If you want to label that as AU obsession, you go for it. I'm not going to keep arguing the same points over and over.