JessN: Ohio State recap: Tide may have even more changes to make

[theballguy]

I agree about the DBs and LBs but we'll never know about the depth at RB- unfortunately, we didn't see Tyren Jones who runs a lot like OSU's Elliott. I think he could have had a real impact on that game. I thought the OL improved a lot over this season but definitely short of what we fielded in 2011 and 2012.

I constantly thought of Tyren Jones every time I saw Elliott run. .. sigh ..

 

[JustNeedMe81]

Lot of things We saw against OSU, it was similar to what we saw when we played them. We should've beat them. Oregon shouldv'e beat them. Teams that played OSU shouldv'e beat them.... OSU got lucky this year and I congrat them for that. The bama boys see this, and Saban and coaching staff will see this. we'll be okay. We lost and its time to move on.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I would disagree at least to the extent that in-game trends relate to DB play. I think the staff knew quite well all of the problems it had, and did what it could to mitigate them, but at that point it is entirely too late to do anything about them. If you want to blame overall poor DB recruiting from 2010-2013, I would be on board with that, and to me that was the staff's real shortcoming.

Otherwise, if I'm looking for culprits, I'm zeroing in directly on QB play -- namely zero deep passing success until the late fourth quarter touchdown to White, plus two ugly interceptions that combined to cost us 14 points -- and the D-line, which was oddly enough pushed around pretty badly by Ohio State, despite being the bedrock of our defense all season. Really haven't seen much of a satisfactory explanation for why that happened, although the thin LB corp and the injury to Ragland certainly hurt matters late, other than to simply say that they didn't get the job done and were just outplayed.

The in game trends that I was referring to was offensively not continuing to do what the defense had yet to prove they could stop. Running the ball. I wasn't clear. Yeah, I agree. At that stage in the season if the DB's can't cover then there's not much you can do. They simply cannot cover.

 

[92tide]

We sure had our chances. There were two potentially really big and very makeable plays that Bama failed to make in that game that really affected momentum: White's dropped pass on 3rd and 2 in Q2 and Cyrus Jones' dropped pick six in Q3.

and two wide open receivers in the end zone on the 4th quarter interception at the goal line,

 

[92tide]

Our pass defense has got to get better or we won't sniff another national title. When you get into the bigger games against the better teams they will pick at that weakness like a sore.

we knew that d-backs would be a weakness coming into this season. there is no reason to think that we will not be able to rectify that.

 

[fundytide]

I would disagree at least to the extent that in-game trends relate to DB play. I think the staff knew quite well all of the problems it had, and did what it could to mitigate them, but at that point it is entirely too late to do anything about them. If you want to blame overall poor DB recruiting from 2010-2013, I would be on board with that, and to me that was the staff's real shortcoming.

Agreed. But as someone else here raised before, the quality of DB inputs as recruited are better than many other programs but the product on the field fell short of some of those same programs. In short, it didn't seem that many of those guys got "coached up". But we definitely had trouble in the secondary all season and on at least two of the deep passes OSU completed against us in the Sugar Bowl, both balls were underthrown but the coverage was bad enough that they were still completed for huge gains and a TD.

Otherwise, if I'm looking for culprits, I'm zeroing in directly on QB play -- namely zero deep passing success until the late fourth quarter touchdown to White, plus two ugly interceptions that combined to cost us 14 points -- and the D-line, which was oddly enough pushed around pretty badly by Ohio State, despite being the bedrock of our defense all season. Really haven't seen much of a satisfactory explanation for why that happened, although the thin LB corp and the injury to Ragland certainly hurt matters late, other than to simply say that they didn't get the job done and were just outplayed.

I thought Blake Sims played pretty well in the Sugar Bowl- not as well as in the SECCG about about as well as he did against MSU and Auburn. He had a couple of bad reads and a couple of bad throws that led to two interceptions but otherwise he played pretty well. I do agree though that we didn't test OSU deep in the first half as much as we should have- but that's not Blake's call.

I thought the D Line played really well into the early second quarter and for most of the second half but sagged in the middle. I think we had to back off the pash rush a bit when Jones started gashing us up the middle on runs. Trey Depriest had a pretty rough outing trying to spy him- he seemed to get lost in traffic and take the wrong gap a lot- especially in the first half. He played that role much better against Dak Prescott so I was surprised to see that.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

we knew that d-backs would be a weakness coming into this season. there is no reason to think that we will not be able to rectify that.

I can't wait to see how Tony Brown looks in his second year and if M Humphrey can get on the field.

 

[BigEasyTider]

I agree about the DBs and LBs but we'll never know about the depth at RB- unfortunately, we didn't see Tyren Jones who runs a lot like OSU's Elliott. I think he could have had a real impact on that game. I thought the OL improved a lot over this season but definitely short of what we fielded in 2011 and 2012.

I think you're over-exaggerating a bit on Jones. I'm bullish on him, but he's 3 inches shorter than Elliott and around 15 pounds lighter, so he is not quite moving the pile in the same way. Likewise, expecting Jones to have had an Elliott-like effect -- who arguably had the greatest three-game stretch for a RB in modern CFB history -- with increased carries just isn't feasible.

Do think we could have gotten more out of Henry, and agree with BB that I would have liked to have seen him get more carries given all of the success he had on relatively limited carries. That said, I'm always torn up a bit about Henry, and even when he's successful, I can at least somewhat understand why the staff is hesitant to rely on him heavily at times. He does really well when we can get him wide on the tosses with a head of steam and a pulling lineman in front of him, but in general, especially on runs between the tackles, he doesn't at all utilize his size and strength like he should. He tends to be too indecisive, and tiptoes around through the line, and to a large extent it basically negates any added benefit he gets from that monster frame. When I see him hesitate behind the OG and then slowly lumber into an awaiting middle linebacker for an easy tackle and a gain of two yards, I can see why the staff chooses to go in other directions.

 

[fundytide]

Sorry, I probably wasn't clear on my comments about Tyren Jones. I didn't mean to suggest that he was Elliott's equal or could have produced like that if he had the carries. What I meant to say was simply that he runs in a similar way and in a way that's different from both Henry and Yeldon. He seems to hit the hole fast and power through it which would have added a dimension that we didn't really have in our run game this year- especially after Yeldon hurt his ankle.

 

[BigEasyTider]

I guess I don't see how you can say on the one hand that we should have beat the national champion and on the other hand that we won't sniff a national championship unless we make some undefined change.

I don't see any necessary conflict between the two, and BB isn't advocating some undefined change, at least from what I read, as much as he's simply reciting that there must be an improvement in DB play. That doesn't necessarily mean any underlying change needs to take place, other than a shift in recruiting evaluations/philosophy (which has already taken place, I might add).

In any event, I do think he's basically right. We aren't winning championships if the pass defense keeps turning every halfway decent Joe Blow we come across into Joe Montana for four quarters. Want to win a tight game on a big stage against a very good opponent? Being able to get off the field every now and again on 3rd and 10+ would be a good start, and when you can't do things like that -- and I'm not even talking yet about putting active pressure on the football and forcing turnovers, which were almost non-existent for us this season at DB -- you really put yourself in such a hole that you're going to need other-worldly type performances from your offense and defensive front seven if you expect to be able to win those types of games.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

We could of. Maybe we should of. But you win some games you shouldn't and you lose some games you should. I'm not sure that's a reason for wholesale change. I guess I don't see how you can say on the one hand that we should have beat the national champion and on the other hand that we won't sniff a national championship unless we make some undefined change.

If the coaching staff isn't capable of masking our weaknesses (in this case the secondary) by taking advantage of the ability to run the ball against teams that can't stop our run. Then we will not sniff another championship. Because teams are definitely going to continue to go after our weaknesses until we prove we've fixed them. It's human nature.

 

[dvldog]

Difference in the sugar bowl was that their QB made plays w his legs and ours didn't though he could have and their play calling pretty much stayed w what was working and ours didn't.

 

[BigEasyTider]

Agreed. But as someone else here raised before, the quality of DB inputs as recruited are better than many other programs but the product on the field fell short of some of those same programs. In short, it didn't seem that many of those guys got "coached up". But we definitely had trouble in the secondary all season and on at least two of the deep passes OSU completed against us in the Sugar Bowl, both balls were underthrown but the coverage was bad enough that they were still completed for huge gains and a TD.

I thought Blake Sims played pretty well in the Sugar Bowl- not as well as in the SECCG about about as well as he did against MSU and Auburn. He had a couple of bad reads and a couple of bad throws that led to two interceptions but otherwise he played pretty well. I do agree though that we didn't test OSU deep in the first half as much as we should have- but that's not Blake's call.

I thought the D Line played really well into the early second quarter and for most of the second half but sagged in the middle. I think we had to back off the pash rush a bit when Jones started gashing us up the middle on runs. Trey Depriest had a pretty rough outing trying to spy him- he seemed to get lost in traffic and take the wrong gap a lot- especially in the first half. He played that role much better against Dak Prescott so I was surprised to see that.

Few points:

(1) I think you (and others) may be overrating the quality of DB recruits we picked up from 2010 to 2013, most of which were either raw "athletes" who were long-term developmental projects (Sylve, Washington, Jones), and hybrid S/CB prospects who weren't athletic enough to match up and cover WRs when isolated in space (Perry, Williams, Geno, etc.). Even so, I'll admit that DB development has been questionable even given the underlying personnel limitations. A lot of our guys (and upperclassmen at that) just routinely look absolutely lost in zone coverage, and for some of our better signees, I'm not sure those guys have produced as cover guys at a level commensurate to what you would expect from their raw athletic ability. I'm thinking largely about Landon Collins here, but I guess much of the same could also be said out of Tony Brown and Marlon Humphrey, even in limited time. It may be time to rethink our teaching methods.

(2) Sims played a decent game, aside from the turnovers, but it was just that, decent. Decent play with two backbreaker INTs just isn't a recipe for success, at least not when you are relying pretty heavily on offensive output to win it for you.

(3) Not really surprised that DePriest struggled against Jones, who is a lot more athletic and physical than Prescott. DePriest was, and is, a very likeable kid, but despite his star recruit status his physical limitations became pretty apparent early on in his career. Losing Ragland was just a huge blow late because he was really all that we had that our LB corps could hang its hat on.

 

[davefrat]

We could of. Maybe we should of. But you win some games you shouldn't and you lose some games you should. I'm not sure that's a reason for wholesale change. I guess I don't see how you can say on the one hand that we should have beat the national champion and on the other hand that we won't sniff a national championship unless we make some undefined change.

we were outcoached and outplayed by OSU in the sugar bowl and they simply looked like the superior team among the final four.

to be honest, they looked quite a bit like we looked during our peak run a few years ago...bruising running game and stout defense with a lot of team speed.

I hate OSU and I'm no urban meyer fan, but they are clearly the best team in college football and meyer has (at least for time being) stolen saban's thunder.

I don't like saying it, but as coach says..."it is what it is."

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Few points:

(1) ...... It may be time to rethink our teaching methods.

I think this maybe the biggest part of the problem along with one heckuva complex system to learn to boot.

 

[92tide]

I can't wait to see how Tony Brown looks in his second year and if M Humphrey can get on the field.

me too.

 

[92tide]

we were outcoached and outplayed by OSU in the sugar bowl and they simply looked like the superior team among the final four.

to be honest, they looked quite a bit like we looked during our peak run a few years ago...bruising running game and stout defense with a lot of team speed.

I hate OSU and I'm no urban meyer fan, but they are clearly the best team in college football and meyer has (at least for time being) stolen saban's thunder.

I don't like saying it, but as coach says..."it is what it is."

agreed, except i don't think anyone has stolen saban's thunder. meyer is an excellent coach. and this year, OSU proved their strength on the field, but that doesn't take anything away from saban, or bama for that matter.

 

[nx4bama]

Anybody think they looked like us when we won our championships ( run it, play sound D, etc. )?

yes, which is interesting because reading this board I often get the impression that we need a total overall in every facet of the game.... (punting game excluded)

 

[davefrat]

agreed, except i don't think anyone has stolen saban's thunder. meyer is an excellent coach. and this year, OSU proved their strength on the field, but that doesn't take anything away from saban, or bama for that matter.

he beat him head to head in the playoffs and matched him as the only HC to win a title at two different schools.

to be sure, saban has one more title overall, but currently meyer has the better team and the trophy.

that's the measuring stick i'm using...he's leveled the playing field and taken the head to head.

like i said...i hate OSU and i don't like meyer...but he's the one in the catbird seat right now.

 

[davefrat]

yes, which is interesting because reading this board I often get the impression that we need a total overall in every facet of the game.... (punting game excluded)

at the very least, meyer put to rest the absurd notion of being "sabanized" out of coaching or whatever such nonsense has been spewed.