Link: Article in The Atlantic in explanation of ISIS...

[dvldog]

"When you start to understand the ISIS way of thinking, this becomes more logical, according to their twisted way of thinking."

The words ISIS and logical should not be used in the same sentence.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

"When you start to understand the ISIS way of thinking, this becomes more logical, according to their twisted way of thinking."

The words ISIS and logical should not be used in the same sentence.

On the contrary, they are completely logical to an insane degree. When you look at the passages in the Koran they're relying on, they become completely predictable...

 

[TideEngineer08]

On the contrary, they are completely logical to an insane degree. When you look at the passages in the Koran they're relying on, they become completely predictable...

Agreed. And I agree with almost everything you've said in this thread. However, where I part ways to some degree is that I really would love to see us hasten their demise. What they are doing to Christians, as well as other Muslims and who knows what other groups, is some of the most heinous inhumane stuff I've ever seen. It is on the level of the Nazis, just to my knowledge not as organized and not yet as many numbers of people. Still, it would be something worth intervening in, IMO.

I guess the trouble is that we spent so much blood, sweat, tears, and treasure over the last decade+ in Iraq and Afganistan that the national appetite is simply not there. I understand that is reality. But I do wish it weren't.

 

[Tidewater]

A... I really would love to see us hasten their demise. What they are doing to Christians, as well as other Muslims and who knows what other groups, is some of the most heinous inhumane stuff I've ever seen. It is on the level of the Nazis, just to my knowledge not as organized and not yet as many numbers of people.

I think that is insulting to the Nazis of 1933-1945. They tried to hide their atrocities. These jokers are proud of theirs.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Agreed. And I agree with almost everything you've said in this thread. However, where I part ways to some degree is that I really would love to see us hasten their demise. What they are doing to Christians, as well as other Muslims and who knows what other groups, is some of the most heinous inhumane stuff I've ever seen. It is on the level of the Nazis, just to my knowledge not as organized and not yet as many numbers of people. Still, it would be something worth intervening in, IMO.

I guess the trouble is that we spent so much blood, sweat, tears, and treasure over the last decade+ in Iraq and Afganistan that the national appetite is simply not there. I understand that is reality. But I do wish it weren't.

The fact is that we not only spent so much, we proved that we suck as occupiers. I think it's an illusion that we can solve this problem of theirs with a few thousand more boots. When we left the next time, the vacuum would still be there. I believe the author is correct in that we are now practicing the best of a bunch of bad options - to harass them, particularly their logistics, and support our surrogates, the Kurds, and, to whatever extent possible, the Iraqis - and wait for them to fall on their faces...

 

[TideEngineer08]

I think that is insulting to the Nazis of 1933-1945. They tried to hide their atrocities. These jokers are proud of theirs.

Oh you are most correct. It's not a great comparison but it is the closest I could come to.

 

[Tidewater]

The fact is that we not only spent so much, we proved that we suck as occupiers. I think it's an illusion that we can solve this problem of theirs with a few thousand more boots. When we left the next time, the vacuum would still be there. I believe the author is correct in that we are now practicing the best of a bunch of bad options - to harass them, particularly their logistics, and support our surrogates, the Kurds, and, to whatever extent possible, the Iraqis - and wait for them to fall on their faces...

Most Americans honestly have no idea just how provocative the presence of Americans soldiers is, especially in the Middle East. Swedes (for example) can do a lot of things that Americans could never get away with, because nobody looks at Swedes as the local branch of the Zionist conspiracy to keep Arabs down. (Not that this is accurate factually, just a fairly typical Arab perception).
We are really good at the "butt-kicking" phase. The occupation phase, especially in an Arab or Muslim country, not so much.

 

[TideEngineer08]

We are really good at the "butt-kicking" phase. The occupation phase, especially in an Arab or Muslim country, not so much.

That's really all I'm interested in. Killing them all. Can you do that without an occupation? I guess not because we could kill every ISIS member and some other group would fall in and replace them.

 

[Tidewater]

Oh you are most correct. It's not a great comparison but it is the closest I could come to.

As bad as the Nazis were, sadly, these guys are worse IMHO.
I hate what they are doing to Christian communities in the Middle East. Shiites, too. Even insufficiently pure Sunnis. It is pure evil.

 

[GrayTide]

Having read a few more articles it appears that as Earle said the major rift historically has always been between the Sunnis and their long hated rivals the Shia. Worldwide the Sunnis far outnumber the Shia; however the Shia control Iran, parts of Iraqi and other nations in the Middle East. It would appear the coalition's best plan is to keep these factions fighting each other. Since the last caliphate dissolved the Ottoman Empire in 1924; it would make sense that ISIS and the new caliphate hope to conquer Turkey, Syria and Jordan while destroying Israel. This is very interesting reading especially how the Sunni and Shia parted ways after the death of Muhammed.

 

[twofbyc]

I agree that we should be more concerned with Al Qaeda and Al Shabab and their abilities to carry out indiscriminate attacks worldwide as to ISIS's focus on controlling territory in what would be referred to as the Middle East. While I am still learning about all of this, it appears that if ISIS intends to expand its caliphate it will have to deal with the Kurds, the Turks, the Iranians and the Western coalition a pretty tall order.

Their target (according to their "prophecy") is Istanbul.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Their target (according to their "prophecy") is Istanbul.

Yeah, good luck with that...

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Having read a few more articles it appears that as Earle said the major rift historically has always been between the Sunnis and their long hated rivals the Shia. Worldwide the Sunnis far outnumber the Shia; however the Shia control Iran, parts of Iraqi and other nations in the Middle East. It would appear the coalition's best plan is to keep these factions fighting each other. Since the last caliphate dissolved the Ottoman Empire in 1924; it would make sense that ISIS and the new caliphate hope to conquer Turkey, Syria and Jordan while destroying Israel. This is very interesting reading especially how the Sunni and Shia parted ways after the death of Muhammed.

The real title of the Shi'a sect is "Partisans of Ali." They have been separated for so many centuries, that they've developed different dialects, appearance, etc. What they are doing is the equivalent of a sect preempting the Book of Revelations and beginning to act out the events there in real time. (My brand of Christianity doesn't require that I accept that book as a literal map of the future.) Viewed in the perspective of Christians who do believe in Revelations as a map of the end times, ISIS believes that it is initiating the end times, just not the one visualized by most Christians...

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Most Americans honestly have no idea just how provocative the presence of Americans soldiers is, especially in the Middle East. Swedes (for example) can do a lot of things that Americans could never get away with, because nobody looks at Swedes as the local branch of the Zionist conspiracy to keep Arabs down. (Not that this is accurate factually, just a fairly typical Arab perception).
We are really good at the "butt-kicking" phase. The occupation phase, especially in an Arab or Muslim country, not so much.

This is dead on. They view America as strongly Jewish-influenced, if not control. If anyone missed it in the article, the destruction of Israel is a prerequisite to the ending of the world. In fact, it would probably help the rationality of our foreign policy if more Americans (especially American politicians) realized that Americans - and particularly American soldiers - are not beloved over most of the globe...

 

[dvldog]

Nor do we want to be. In fact just the opposite.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Nor do we want to be. In fact just the opposite.

Disagree. A lot of our foreign policy is formed around the opposite - wanted to be loved and appreciated. I think you're speaking only for yourself. You're certainly not following our foreign policy line of the past several decades, where we can't decide exactly how we want the rest of the world to regard us...

 

[dvldog]

You are correct. I'm speaking from the point of a Soldier/Marine; not a foreign policy geek so I stand by my statement.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

You are correct. I'm speaking from the point of a Soldier/Marine; not a foreign policy geek so I stand by my statement.

I knew where you were coming from...

 

[bamacon]

This is dead on. They view America as strongly Jewish-influenced, if not control. If anyone missed it in the article, the destruction of Israel is a prerequisite to the ending of the world. In fact, it would probably help the rationality of our foreign policy if more Americans (especially American politicians) realized that Americans - and particularly American soldiers - are not beloved over most of the globe...

Which was taking place during WW2 at the hands of the Nazis. It had the full blessing of the Muslims of the day and Hitler was encouraged to go faster. These psychos are nothing new.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Which was taking place during WW2 at the hands of the Nazis. It had the full blessing of the Muslims of the day and Hitler was encouraged to go faster. These psychos are nothing new.

I once brought up the ethnicity and Semiticism of the Arabs with my German next door neighbor. So far as the NAZIs were concerned, they were Aryan. I pointed out how absurd this was. She just said I didn't understand, that it was a political concept, which allowed the Japanese also to be "Aryan"...