supreme court upholds ACA

mittman

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A rational explanation. After all, more than a few people here decry the federal government as "statist".
Apparently rational does not always mean correct. While I understand the viewpoint, and agreed with the earlier decision on the ACA (that basically it was nothing more than another tax and spend government service), I certainly don't want it. I personally thought this case was a waste of time before it even started. The only way to get rid of it is to elect people who will.

The state is "statist?" And water is wet.
Yup, One expects those in power to persevere that power and attempt to increase it.

Usually I understand someone who uses that term to mean an individual who supports the actions of a state and expects them to remedy all the ills of society, not the state itself. I think I've been called that myself on this board at least once. :)
 
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Tidewater

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i feel very secure paying 50% less than 3 years ago for a $2500 deductible (no subsidies) and our family has had three major operations in the past 4 years (two open heart surgeries and one crainiotomy) that would have bankrupted us (all happened after we have two of us with pre-existing conditions that would have pretty much precluded us from getting insurance). now i know that we will be able to get and keep insurance if god-forbid we have to go through any thing like this again.

i guess it impacts everyone a bit differently.
Sad situation. I would bet a solution could have been found that did not increase costs overall or increasing the costs on your neighbors.

As my Democrat lawyer friend told me in a moment of candor, "This is merely a way point on the path to a single payer system." That might work out in the long run. It might not.

If you want to glimpse the future, watch British news. In every single election the most common theme is (1) some horror story about some failure of the NHS (someone left to die in an emergency room, someone who died on a waiting list for some procedure, etc.) (2) promises by all parties to fix it (3) an ever-increasing share of the government budget being taken up with health care costs. (A good bit of this comes from defense. If the Falklands, as small as it was, were to happen again today, the Brits would not be able to respond and they barely eked out a victory in 1982.)

And the Brits did not start the process $18 trillion in debt. Long-term, I'm not sanguine.
 

mittman

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I feel real secure paying 300% more than I did 3 years ago for a $6,000.00 deductible and have seen the Doctor once since 2007, and paid a 40.00 co pay to do that. Anyone who sticks their head in the sand over this deserves ButtHurt. We're paying these "subsidies". They don't come from nowhere. See the 18 trillion debt that keeps getting piled on. You have to look at this in it's entirety.And believe me, it is not affecting anyone of these folks who are putting this in effect.
i feel very secure paying 50% less than 3 years ago for a $2500 deductible (no subsidies) and our family has had three major operations in the past 4 years (two open heart surgeries and one crainiotomy) that would have bankrupted us (all happened after we have two of us with pre-existing conditions that would have pretty much precluded us from getting insurance). now i know that we will be able to get and keep insurance if god-forbid we have to go through any thing like this again.

i guess it impacts everyone a bit differently.
Ok 92tide, say thank you to tidegrandpa for helping you out :)
 

Gr8hope

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92, I am glad you are ok and had the medical expertise to take care of you. That said, the current decline in our country will mean will not have that care available in the future.
 

92tide

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92, I am glad you are ok and had the medical expertise to take care of you. That said, the current decline in our country will mean will not have that care available in the future.
thank you.

i guess we will see, but i think the quality of care will become even better and available to more people.
 

Catfish

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Catfish, it is called the free market. Without government subsidies and control the market would fix the prices at affordable rates. Another solution would be insurance that crosses State lines in order to encourage competition.
Often people say we had free markets (capitalism). That hasn't been true for decades. Government intervention corrupted the system with regulations and redistribution a long time ago. This has happened in the housing market and education with the government "fixes" that created bubbles and led to the problems we are experiencing. Government is the problem. Politicians sell lies to benefit themselves. ACA was never intended to fix healthcare. It was set up to lead to government run healthcare. It will. The uninsured could have received subsidies at a fraction of the cost of this travesty without costing the whole country more for their healthcare. Their claims of charitable intentions are the catalyst to failure. Good intentions will never guarantee good results. Socialism fails every time. This time is not different.
LOL! That's perfect! Free markets and the elimination of regulations! :rofl: You forgot to add the elimination of taxes and the destruction of unions. The only thing that remotely resembles even part of a plan is making insurance available across state lines.

Sad situation. I would bet a solution could have been found that did not increase costs overall or increasing the costs on your neighbors.
92 should have just moved to Aynville and let the free market save his family for pennies. :rolleyes: Mrs. Catfish also had a pre-existing condition when I was working as basically an indentured servant for a few years while changing careers early in our marriage. Do you know how much we paid for insurance for her? Trick question. We couldn't get health insurance for her AT ANY PRICE. It really was a sad situation. Fortunately, the Republicans were working day and night to find a solution to it. I'M KIDDING! ;) They were running two wars they were paying for with tax cuts (natch), whining that gay people were destroying the sanctity of their third marriage and screaming about people who had the audacity to wish them "Happy Holidays".
 

chanson78

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Catfish, it is called the free market. Without government subsidies and control the market would fix the prices at affordable rates. Another solution would be insurance that crosses State lines in order to encourage competition.
Often people say we had free markets (capitalism). That hasn't been true for decades. Government intervention corrupted the system with regulations and redistribution a long time ago. This has happened in the housing market and education with the government "fixes" that created bubbles and led to the problems we are experiencing. Government is the problem. Politicians sell lies to benefit themselves. ACA was never intended to fix healthcare. It was set up to lead to government run healthcare. It will. The uninsured could have received subsidies at a fraction of the cost of this travesty without costing the whole country more for their healthcare. Their claims of charitable intentions are the catalyst to failure. Good intentions will never guarantee good results. Socialism fails every time. This time is not different.
One thing I would like to point out. The talking points have gone from "No, the shiftless free loaders should pay for their own insurance" to "Hey this is a terrible way to provide insurance for people who can't afford it. It could have been done so much better." Now, I am not going to stand up and defend how it was rammed through, however there was a period of time that input could have been made when this law was going through. Instead the conservatives in a position to actually improve the bill, plugged their fingers in their ears and wished, hoped and prayed that it would just go away on its own.

To your last point, the very nature of insurance in and of itself is a form of socialism. One that was skewed by lobbyists for the insurance companies to ensure greater profits, and federal acts (EMTALA) that made it nearly impossible for the American healthcare system to ever actually work without federal and state stimulus. To assume that the system was working beforehand is a false premise. The system pre ACA was being propped up with federal and state grants and tax subsidies since many hospitals operated at a loss, however many like to ignore that fact. Its just that it wasn't until something that was even more unpalatable to conservatives than the status quo got in place that they started realizing that this whole will of the people thing actually has consequences. I'd say that those calling for the ACA to go away certainly didn't carry the election in 2012/14 and from the way the candidates are talking it doesn't seem like any of them think the majority of the American populace actually wants it to go away either.

I am still interested in the mythical "replace and improve" plan that supposedly would fix the problems with the ACA. Allowing insurance to cross state borders does seem like a good start, but other than that, I haven't heard much other than state specific plans that suggest inserting a private insurance middleman between the government subsidies and the expanded medicaid recipients. In the vein of some of the other threads on here recently, I am all ears regarding actual solutions to make the system better.

LOL! That's perfect! Free markets and the elimination of regulations! :rofl: You forgot to add the elimination of taxes and the destruction of unions. The only thing that remotely resembles even part of a plan is making insurance available across state lines.

92 should have just moved to Aynville and let the free market save his family for pennies. :rolleyes: Mrs. Catfish also had a pre-existing condition when I was working as basically an indentured servant for a few years while changing careers early in our marriage. Do you know how much we paid for insurance for her? Trick question. We couldn't get health insurance for her AT ANY PRICE. It really was a sad situation. Fortunately, the Republicans were working day and night to find a solution to it. I'M KIDDING! ;) They were running two wars they were paying for with tax cuts (natch), whining that gay people were destroying the sanctity of their third marriage and screaming about people who had the audacity to wish them "Happy Holidays".
This is liberal commie hippy speaking point overload. I am imagining at least a few people furiously mashing the "Post Quick Reply" button while trying to ensure their caps lock is on so you can be proven wrong as soon as possible.
 

crimsonaudio

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92 should have just moved to Aynville and let the free market save his family for pennies. :rolleyes: Mrs. Catfish also had a pre-existing condition when I was working as basically an indentured servant for a few years while changing careers early in our marriage. Do you know how much we paid for insurance for her? Trick question. We couldn't get health insurance for her AT ANY PRICE. It really was a sad situation. Fortunately, the Republicans were working day and night to find a solution to it. I'M KIDDING! ;) They were running two wars they were paying for with tax cuts (natch), whining that gay people were destroying the sanctity of their third marriage and screaming about people who had the audacity to wish them "Happy Holidays".
Hahaha, this post is awesome.
 

Tidewater

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It won't be so amusing one day in the not too distant future when my kids (or yours) look into their kids eyes and tell them they need a fairly simple life-saving operation, but he cannot pay for it and the Federal government says they cannot pay for it either. That will be a tragedy that will make a Greek tragedy look like a Sponge Bob movie.

Just be the last person to die before the Federal checks start to bounce and you'll be what my father calls a "winner." After that point, who cares?
 

92tide

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It won't be so amusing one day in the not too distant future when my kids (or yours) look into their kids eyes and tell them they need a fairly simple life-saving operation, but he cannot pay for it and the Federal government says they cannot pay for it either. That will be a tragedy that will make a Greek tragedy look like a Sponge Bob movie.

Just be the last person to die before the Federal checks start to bounce and you'll be what my father calls a "winner." After that point, who cares?
i guess us commies are going to rue the day
 

seebell

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No, I think all of us are, commies and rational people alike.
Tidewater. You are aware that the ACA decreases the deficit and that health care costs are rising slower than they have been before passage of the ACA?

Aren't those good things?

Anyone who researched how the SCOTUS had ruled on similar cases, i.e. language versus intent, could have predicted this ruling. The lawsuit bordered on frivolous.

Loved your post Catfish. I was in a somewhat similar position.
 

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