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The Bundy's are back in the news

crimsonaudio said:
It's pretty crazy how much land the FedGov claims:

Map_of_all_U.S._Federal_Land.jpg
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For the most part, there really shouldn't be any such thing as federal land.

There's not much point to having "states" out west because they are virtually nonexistent anyway.
 
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TIDE-HSV said:
It's not really "claims." It was in federal ownership and empty before the settlers started moving in. It's they who are the "claimants."
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Well, I'm saying 'claims' because frankly, I don't exactly trust the government to be honest wrt things like this.

And the government has radically expanded their claims over the years - they continue to expand them even today.
 
Tidewater said:
When the Federal government purchased the land from Napoleon or received it from the Mexican government, there was not a lot of people out there except Sioux, Apache, Navajo, etc. and not many of them. There were 8,000 Californios in the entire Mexican territory now in the state of California.
To this case, I don't know any way that these jokers would "own" that land any more than I do or you do. I believe the ownership was transferred from France or Mexico to the Federal government in fee simple.
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That's always been my attitude and still is. I don't know what right someone should have to it because his grandfather moved in next to it and homesteaded 160 acres. There are millions of acres with no one living next to it. If the federal government (i.e. all of us) doesn't own it, then who the hell does? Chaos, if you want it...
 
The federal government should be biased toward making sure most "government" land is transferred to private ownership a la the land rush of the 1800's.
 
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cuda.1973 said:
As much as I distrust the gubbament, these guys are not heroes. There is lots of blame, to pin on both sides. (The gubbament and the Bundys both need a good kick in the rump.)

Breitbart gives a fair assessment of the mess:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...ance-to-government-land-grabs-know-the-facts/

The worst part is these dorks are playing into the hands of the fascists that want to suppress any and all resistance.
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The Hammonds were sentenced and served the time they were given. After this the 9th Circus(sic) of Appeals Court determined it wasn't enough time and ordered re-sentencing, more time. This is a big part of what is causing the protest.

The government uses it power to control the little guy and maximize it's financial reach. I am in agreement with CA, the federal government is holding far too much land which should belong to the American people. Still, neither side is totally right in this. The following article gives a more in depth look at the protest:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ist-plan-peacefully-report-prison-Monday.html
 
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Tide1986 said:
The federal government should be biased toward making sure most "government" land is transferred to private ownership a la the land rush of the 1800's.
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There are hundreds of millions of acres which are mountains and deserts - not usable for farming, ranching or mineral extraction. Most is not even accessible for hunting. So you think all that land that can be reached should just be given to whatever militant can get there first? And the rest just go to hell? I see where you're coming from...
 
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crimsonaudio said:
Well, I'm saying 'claims' because frankly, I don't exactly trust the government to be honest wrt things like this.

And the government has radically expanded their claims over the years - they continue to expand them even today.
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What sort of "expansion?" I'm not aware of it...
 
interesting article from Buzzfeed (of all places) discussing the Mormon influence on all this. Had no idea http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimdalrympl...-history-if-yo?utm_term=.wnxmBBKK8#.nbbE33zzg


God told Ammon Bundy to fight back against the government.
One day before Bundy became the public face of a group of ranchers and militia members who seized a government building in Harney County, Oregon, he posted a video to YouTube. The video explains why Bundy became involved in the Harney County protest, beginning with the time he felt an “overwhelming urge” to find out more about a pair of Oregon ranchers facing prison for burning land.
In response to his urge to learn more, Bundy studied through the night, then finally prayed about what to do. God answered.
“I began to understand how the Lord felt about Harney County and about this country, and I clearly understood that the Lord was not pleased with what was happening to the Hammonds,” Bundy says in the video, referring to the Oregon ranchers. “What was happening to them, if it was not corrected, would be a type and a shadow of what would happen to the rest of the people across this country.”
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Jon said:
interesting article from Buzzfeed (of all places) discussing the Mormon influence on all this. Had no idea http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimdalrympl...-history-if-yo?utm_term=.wnxmBBKK8#.nbbE33zzg
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I noticed that one of the "militants" had named himself "Captain Moroni," after the revealing angel. I apologize for getting snappish last night. It was late and I got put out and, frankly, I was too tired to explain the Homestead Act of 1862, which I learned about in high school in American History. There seem to be some misconceptions. At the beginning of the act, the minimum number of acres was 640, at $1 per acre. That didn't really solve the problem, so the amount of land was finally reduced to a quarter - 160 acres. $640 in 1862 is in excess of $15K in today's dollars, and that's without the investment required to buy implements, farm animals, etc. You had to establish residency, live on the land at least six months per year and have no other residence. A certain percentage had to be devoted to agriculture. Although there was a lot of corruption, on the main, the act accomplished what its objective was. Between 1862 and 1976, upon repeal, between 250 and 300 million acres passed into private hands. (No one knows the exact acreage.) Here's the problem - those conditions no longer exist. The land left can't be farmed. In fact, most of it is inaccessible. The grazing which is happening in this case requires, in some parts of the west, it requires 100 acres to graze just one cow. If the public lands they lease - and in this case want to be given them, because it's "theirs" - were sold to them at the same 1862 rates today, a viable ranch for, say, a modest herd of 300 cows or so, would cost upwards of 3/4 million dollars today. Very few ranchers could afford it, which is the reason they're saying it's theirs and want it given to them. In short, the "land rush" will never happen again because of economic and environmental factors. It had petered out by the time it was repealed. For myself, I oppose a big land giveaway. We the people legally own it, as Tidewater has pointed out, and I don't want it given away to some guy whose grandfather happened to homestead next to it. If it were put to a national plebiscite, I have no doubt it would be voted down overwhelmingly. One last point - most of the grazers are infamous land abusers. Why should they take care of the land? After all, they just rent it, so it wouldn't make economic sense. As I said, I was just too tired to outline this last night...
 
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Thanks for the informative thread.

I only wish half of the information posted here could be shared with the viewers of the mainstream media.

Once again, the media doing it's best to create division in the country. :rolleyes:
 
Bazza said:
Thanks for the informative thread.

I only wish half of the information posted here could be shared with the viewers of the mainstream media.

Once again, the media doing it's best to create division in the country. :rolleyes:
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I think it's desperation for sales/clicks in a world where they're becoming ever more irrelevant...
 
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