What is up with the defensive secondary?

[TRU]

The rather disappointing performance of the defensive secondary in pass situations against the Piggies has highlighted a nagging concern of mine. It seems that my stomach tightens every time the Tide has a opponent facing third and long. The secondary gets burned far to many times in these situations. And this has not just been going on this year. It seems to me that the problem goes back at least a few years. My question is why does this seem to be an ongoing weakness? It is how the defense is structured that makes the secondary vulnerable to the pass? Is it how the players are coached to play the position (not looking back for the ball has been a common theme I have heard around here)? Is it just poor execution on the part of the players? Or is it a relatively soft spot on talent on the team (i.e. CNS and his staff short this position to put their recruiting priorities elsewhere)?

I'm not near knowledgable enough to answer this question. I only know what my stomach says when an opponent is facing 3rd and 10. Input from the more knowledgable members of the board would be most welcome.

 

[B1GTide]

Blind squirrel finds nut.

 

[JBama_in_PCOLA]

It is concerning, but I think we are fine. We were up by a lot and let off the gas. I think Coach is going lay into them this week and next. Besides, we are in the midst of a hard stretch.


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[HartselleTider]

It is concerning, but I think we are fine. We were up by a lot and let off the gas. I think Coach is going lay into them this week and next. Besides, we are in the midst of a hard stretch.


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Not really. The very first 3rd and long we let them convert we were only up 14-0 with almost 5 minutes still left in the 1st quarter. We sacked Allen for a 9 yard loss on 1st down. Incomplete pass on 2nd down to put them in a 3rd and 19 situation and they complete a 20 yard pass for the 1st down. It looked like a blown coverage to me. It was like all the work done on 1st and 2nd down to get them into that position was for nothing. They ended up scoring a TD on this drive to make it 14-7.

The OP is correct that this is something that we see consistently going back years. It's not an isolated thing. Everybody sees it. That's why there's so many threads talking about it.

 

[BAMAVILLE]

It is concerning, but I think we are fine. We were up by a lot and let off the gas. I think Coach is going lay into them this week and next. Besides, we are in the midst of a hard stretch.


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^^^ This ... I'm thinking we could/should have stopped 2 of the TD in the game. I was surprised the receiver was that wide open on the first TD though.

 

[ALA2262]

Blind squirrel finds nut.

'Specially if they have a boatload of opportunities to do so. NOTs tend to provide those. You have the ball for several seconds and then the opponent has the ball back again for several minutes.

IMO, it was one of the largest reasons, if not the largest, that UGA lost the 2012 SECCG. Their return of the blocked FG for a TD put their completely gassed defense right back on the field. It was a bad call, as usual, and not their defense that forced the FG attempt. They were toast. Bama had the ball for 22 of the next 25 plays in the game. And went from 11 down to 4 ahead.

 

[Alasippi]

I've always thought the DB's should turn to find the ball. You can't defend what you can't see.
I've also noticed that we only seem to have problems against big receivers who simply block our smaller corners away from the ball.
We've had absolutely perfect coverage quite a few times and they were just too big of a mismatch size wise.
Finally, in the two games we've really had difficulty defending the pass(Ole Miss and Arky) both quarterbacks were getting rushed like crazy but they still threw the ball like NFL QB's. I mean absolutely they threw in the only place the ball could be caught.

 

[Matt0424]

They held the ball 60% of the time, and threw near 50 passes.

We lead the nation in defensive efficiency.

Did we play lights out? No...

Is it worth talking about in 3-4 different threads? No...

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[RTR91]

Arkansas had the ball 14+ minutes more than Alabama. They also ran 33 more plays than Alabama.

The defense was tired.... And rightfully so.

 

[crimsonaudio]

We've played two of the top three passing offenses in the SEC - remove those and we'd have the second best pass D in the country.

Perspective...

 

[edwd58]

Sometimes you have to tip your hat to the opponent. They have good players too, and they practice, and frequently a good pass meets a good route and the defender just gets beat - even those as good as ours. As long as we keep those to a minimum, as we usually do, we come out on top.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Look across college football folks. Alabama isn't the only secondary struggling with this. When you've got 6'3-6'4 WR's basically growing on trees now days coming out of HS and DB's mainly are under 6'1 (with the rare exception). This is the natural result. Technique only takes you so far then physical superiority takes over. We are now facing on a routine basis teams with multiple WR's over 6'2. Add that to the rules in place to benefit the offense and this is what you get. The days of "shut down corners" may not be officially extinct but they are getting harder and harder to find.

 

[TiderJack]

Coach Saban was very disappointed with the secondary in his post game presser and mentioned we could not get off the field on 3rd down. Allen has a good arm but nobody should throw for 400 yards on us as a drop back passer. I think it is possible we may see some changes on the back end this week.

 

[HartselleTider]

Look across college football folks. Alabama isn't the only secondary struggling with this. When you've got 6'3-6'4 WR's basically growing on trees now days coming out of HS and DB's mainly are under 6'1 (with the rare exception). This is the natural result. Technique only takes you so far then physical superiority takes over. We are now facing on a routine basis teams with multiple WR's over 6'2. Add that to the rules in place to benefit the offense and this is what you get. The days of "shut down corners" may not be officially extinct but they are getting harder and harder to find.

The size of our corners aren't the problem. The problem is they never turn around and look for the ball when they're in phase with the receiver on vertical routes.

 

[gtgilbert]

Not really. The very first 3rd and long we let them convert we were only up 14-0 with almost 5 minutes still left in the 1st quarter. We sacked Allen for a 9 yard loss on 1st down. Incomplete pass on 2nd down to put them in a 3rd and 19 situation and they complete a 20 yard pass for the 1st down. It looked like a blown coverage to me. It was like all the work done on 1st and 2nd down to get them into that position was for nothing. They ended up scoring a TD on this drive to make it 14-7.

The OP is correct that this is something that we see consistently going back years. It's not an isolated thing. Everybody sees it. That's why there's so many threads talking about it.

Agree, and I don't think it's talent related either. It's the same DBs that do well enough on 1st and 2nd down that seem to disappear on 3rd. Sure, sometimes our guy does just get beat by a bigger receiver or a perfect throw, but all to often it seems like it's blown assignment or gap in the coverage. Maybe guys are having a hard time switching roles in the different packages (Fitz playing STAR and CB, and Harrison playing FS and MONEY).

 

[REBELZED]

Look across college football folks. Alabama isn't the only secondary struggling with this. When you've got 6'3-6'4 WR's basically growing on trees now days coming out of HS and DB's mainly are under 6'1 (with the rare exception). This is the natural result. Technique only takes you so far then physical superiority takes over. We are now facing on a routine basis teams with multiple WR's over 6'2. Add that to the rules in place to benefit the offense and this is what you get. The days of "shut down corners" may not be officially extinct but they are getting harder and harder to find.

To piggyback on this, I'll cross-post my thoughts from the post-game thread:

"I've been thinking about this a good bit lately, and I really believe that the game has just changed very drastically in just a few years. I believe the days of the 2011 Bama D are gone.

Kids now are focusing more and more on playing QB/WR from an early age so they're much more refined at the college level. Tons of emphasis is placed on 7-on-7 camps throughout middle and high school. Offensive systems have evolved and become much more wide open. Not to mention how the rulebook has evolved to encourage much more scoring. It has gotten to the point where pretty much all teams with decent athletes are able to score, even against good D's [nevermind Rutgers ].

Am I satisfied with our defense against OM/Ark? No way. But the reality is, they - much like many other teams we will play - both have great QB's and great WR's and they're just going to score some points, period. It is just the direction that college football has gone, sadly. You can watch the score ticker any weekend now and see that. The days of 10-7 games and suffocating defenses are just going the way of the dodo..."

 

[crimsonaudio]

I've been thinking about this a good bit lately, and I really believe that the game has just changed very drastically in just a few years. I believe the days of the 2011 Bama D are gone.

It's a great point, too.

2011 Bama offensive ppg: 34.8
2016 Bama offensive ppg: 44.8

The highest scoring offense in the SEC in 2011 was Arky, averaging 36.8 ppg. Just five years later, that would put fifth in the SEC.

SEC scoring average, 2011: 23.2 ppg
SEC scoring average, 2016: 30.6 ppg

 

[ALA2262]

Holding is not being called. Bama OL needs to do more of it. Of course, it would then be called. After that, perhaps it would be called on the opponent.

 

[HartselleTider]

Agree, and I don't think it's talent related either. It's the same DBs that do well enough on 1st and 2nd down that seem to disappear on 3rd. Sure, sometimes our guy does just get beat by a bigger receiver or a perfect throw, but all to often it seems like it's blown assignment or gap in the coverage. Maybe guys are having a hard time switching roles in the different packages (Fitz playing STAR and CB, and Harrison playing FS and MONEY).

The part that gets me is, if you're just NOT going to turn around and look for the football come hell or high water, then there should be no reason why the receiver ever gets behind you in the first place. I mean these are all 5 star recruits that can run we're talking about. This isn't Bowling Green's defensive backs here.

Marlon Humphrey has been picked on relentlessly. Teams actually target him for big plays and touchdowns. That has to be frustrating for him. I'm not sure what his issues are. He seems like he's always there to make the play on the ball, but just doesn't.

Our pass defense may be ranked 2nd in the nation if you take away Ole Miss and Arkansas, but that's kinda the point. That leaves Kent St. (121st), Kentucky (114th), Western Kentucky (15th) and a USC team with a quarterback making his first start ever as your measuring stick in terms of passing offense ranking. A USC quarterback who by the way isn't any good to begin with and was replaced by a freshman.

The secondary simply hasn't played well against any team possessing somewhat equal talent and an offensive pulse lately. And it's not like they don't have the best pass rush in college football to help them out. I just don't understand it. Yeah, I'm sure Saban is concerned. He knows sooner or later, that and that alone is going to get you beat.

 

[Bama Lee]

Arkansas seemed to have the most success when we were in cover 2 or 3 zone. They also seemed to be picking on Safety, Ronnie Harrison, and corner back, Marlon Humphrey. Both players seemed out of sync with whatever defense was called. Maybe there are audibles that they are failing to pick up. The players are taught to be in phase with the WR when they are running downfield and to read their eyes for a clue. The problem is that these two players don't seem to be doing either one. I am going to re-watch the game today.