What is up with the defensive secondary?

[92tide]

Arkansas seemed to have the most success when we were in cover 2 or 3 zone. They also seemed to be picking on Safety, Ronnie Harrison, and corner back, Marlon Humphrey. Both players seemed out of sync with whatever defense was called. Maybe there are audibles that they are failing to pick up. The players are taught to be in phase with the WR when they are running downfield and to read their eyes for a clue. The problem is that these two players don't seem to be doing either one. I am going to re-watch the game today.

i was thinking the same thing, it just seemed there was some miscommunication or something like that going on

 

[Bamabuzzard]

The size of our corners aren't the problem. The problem is they never turn around and look for the ball when they're in phase with the receiver on vertical routes.

No one said it was "the" problem. You're trying to single it down to one thing and it's simply more than just one thing. It's the rules, the disparity of size between WR's and corners and the type offenses being run etc. To address the never turning around and looking for the ball "in phase". The DB's are taught to take keys from the WR in order to know when to turn around. In turn WR's are taught not to lift their hands or do anything to indicate they are going for the ball until the very, very last second. They've become quite good at this. When a DB turns for the ball he naturally slows down, so if his timing is off even a split second it can create space and all of a sudden a covered receiver is now open or he is called for PI. That is the reason (if I'm not mistaken) that Saban doesn't want them turning to look for the ball until the last possible second. It's not as easy as we fans make it out to be.

But for me, if the rules weren't so dang nit picky about what you can and can't do as a DB. The DB's wouldn't have to be almost perfect in execution when defending passes.

 

[bamacpa]

There was talk of maybe some early departures from our secondary to the NFL. I don't see that as likely now.

 

[Jkl0802]

[h=1]I think its more than Alabama playing QBs who have the game of their lives, who make NFL caliber throws against our secondary, who have receivers taller than our DBs. I don't understand why we play press man when it is third and 19 or greater? It all too often turns in to a play where the receiver is streaking down the field and our CBs are chasing them with their backs to the ball. Could it be the technique? Why didn't Dre know how to back pedal? More than 30 years ago, my HS coach taught me how to back pedal...NFL teams apparently require CBs to backpedal...why don't we backpedal at Alabama (at least when it's third and forever?)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d829e35c0/article/dre-kirkpatrick-i-never-backpedaled-at alabama

Dre Kirkpatrick: 'I never backpedaled' at Alabama'[/h]Rookie cornerback Dre Kirkpatrick isn't being asked to start right away for the Cincinnati Bengals. That might be a good thing. The team's first-round pick excelled at Alabama, but entered the pros missing one important on-field skill. "I never backpedaled," he told the Bengals' official site. Kirkpatrick played a lot of press man coverage in a Cover 2 scheme under Nick Saban. He said he wasn't asked to sit back and read receivers on their routes. All of this has made his first offseason in Cincinnati an adventure.

 

[HartselleTider]

No one said it was "the" problem. You're trying to single it down to one thing and it's simply more than just one thing. It's the rules, the disparity of size between WR's and corners and the type offenses being run etc. To address the never turning around and looking for the ball "in phase". The DB's are taught to take keys from the WR in order to know when to turn around. In turn WR's are taught not to lift their hands or do anything to indicate they are going for the ball until the very, very last second. They've become quite good at this. When a DB turns for the ball he naturally slows down, so if his timing is off even a split second it can create space and all of a sudden a covered receiver is now open or he is called for PI. That is the reason (if I'm not mistaken) that Saban doesn't want them turning to look for the ball until the last possible second. It's not as easy as we fans make it out to be.

But for me, if the rules weren't so dang nit picky about what you can and can't do as a DB. The DB's wouldn't have to be almost perfect in execution when defending passes.

Here's a good angle of what I'm talking about. I want you to tell me what Marlon Humphrey is doing here...against the true freshman A.J. Brown. This is a great angle.

He's in perfect position to make a play on the ball. He just doesn't. He doesn't even go up and compete for it. Just falls down.

 

[92tide]

Here's a good angle of what I'm talking about. I want you to tell me what Marlon Humphrey is doing here...against the true freshman A.J. Brown. This is a great angle.

He's in perfect position to make a play on the ball. He just doesn't. He doesn't even go up and compete for it. Just falls down.

i think you answered your own question. he fell down.

 

[CoastGhost]

I remember a few years back when our secondary was nearly impenetrable and shut down most everything but our pass rush was inadequate, leaving top QBs too much time to eventually make big plays. We have evolved to send a smothering pass rush. Does this evolution leave the secondary with greater responsibility?

Against good teams with players and a plan, you are going to get beat on occasion. It seems to me, we are succeeding in delivering more offense than the defense allows, so far without much of a real concern. The competition is improving as we go but so are the players. I like what I have seen so far but like all of you, I would love to see less of the big pass plays on 3rd down!

 

[HartselleTider]

i think you answered your own question. he fell down.

Exactly. The question is, why did he fall down when he was in perfect position to make a play on the ball. He was even looking back for it.

I can show you a few TD's he's given up where he didn't fall down and was in position to make a play, just didn't.

My point is, the coaches consistently have these kids in position to make plays, they're just not making them. Particularly Humphrey. It's not a scheme or coaching issue. I think that's why Saban is upset. He's seen enough.

 

[RTR91]

Here's a good angle of what I'm talking about. I want you to tell me what Marlon Humphrey is doing here...against the true freshman A.J. Brown. This is a great angle.

He's in perfect position to make a play on the ball. He just doesn't. He doesn't even go up and compete for it. Just falls down.

I don't know how he didn't go up for the ball since he fell down. Poor technique for sure.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Here's a good angle of what I'm talking about. I want you to tell me what Marlon Humphrey is doing here...against the true freshman A.J. Brown. This is a great angle.

He's in perfect position to make a play on the ball. He just doesn't. He doesn't even go up and compete for it. Just falls down.

Actually he did make an attempt to turn around, it was too early, created separation and then Humphrey stumbles trying to play catch up. Watch Hump right before the camera pans to the middle of the field then comes back. You can see Humph what appears to be turning his head, the camera pans to the middle the when it comes back the wr is still in a full sprint and Hump is stumbling all over himself trying to make up for his early look back.

 

[HartselleTider]

I don't know how he didn't go up for the ball since he fell down. Poor technique for sure.

Oh dang, TD's don't count as long as the DB's are falling down? Whew! For a second there I thought they were supposed to stay on their feet and make a play.

Poor technique part should probably be in black.

 

[92tide]

Exactly. The question is, why did he fall down when he was in perfect position to make a play on the ball. He was even looking back for it.

I can show you a few TD's he's given up where he didn't fall down and was in position to make a play, just didn't.

My point is, the coaches consistently have these kids in position to make plays, they're just not making them. Particularly Humphrey. It's not a scheme or coaching issue. I think that's why Saban is upset. He's seen enough.

the ball sort of went behind the receiver and the receiver got separation from marlon at the last second. if you watch, you can see marlon try to change direction and jump with the receiver but his feet weren't in a position to allow him to plant and jump.

 

[RTR91]

Oh dang, TD's don't count as long as the DB's are falling down? Whew! For a second there I thought they were supposed to stay on their feet and make a play.

Poor technique part should probably be in black.

Good lord, man. You said it yourself he was in position until he fell down. He lost his footing. Simple as that.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Oh dang, TD's don't count as long as the DB's are falling down? Whew! For a second there I thought they were supposed to stay on their feet and make a play.

Poor technique part should probably be in black.

You're changing your argument. First you say they're not turning around is the problem. But in the video Marlon turned around prematurely and him prematurely turning around is what caused the majority of the separation, he realized it, tried to make up the lost position and stumbled. So is not turning around the problem or not turning around at the perfect time the problem? Because Marlon definitely turned to play the ball. Just at the wrong time.

 

[92tide]

Oh dang, TD's don't count as long as the DB's are falling down? Whew! For a second there I thought they were supposed to stay on their feet and make a play.

Poor technique part should probably be in black.

i want to apologize on behalf of our secondary for them peeing in your corn flakes this morning.

 

[HartselleTider]

You're changing your argument. First you say they're not turning around is the problem. But in the video Marlon turned around prematurely and him prematurely turning around is what caused the majority of the separation, he realizes it, tries to make up the lost position and stumbles.

No, my argument is that Humphrey is consistenly in position to make a play on the ball, just like he was here. But he doesn't. Whether it's falling down, swatting at the ball and missing, or just allowing the catch because of separation.

But you're probably right. Humphrey is playing lights out. No question. As is Ronnie Harrison.

90% of the fanbase and Nick Saban are way off here. These secondary issue threads should probably be deleted.

 

[crimsonaudio]

As is Ronnie Harrison.

Glad you admitted it - he graded out extremely well for the Arky game: http://www.tidefans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=274855

 

[OreBama]

My observation has been that sometimes even great DBs get beaten. Offenses run 4 and 5 wide creating one on one matchups and other teams have good players too. Not saying that there can't be improvement, but our guys are really talented and coached well. There is no doubt that the game has changed, however, our guys still stand out.

 

[JBama_in_PCOLA]

Not really. The very first 3rd and long we let them convert we were only up 14-0 with almost 5 minutes still left in the 1st quarter. We sacked Allen for a 9 yard loss on 1st down. Incomplete pass on 2nd down to put them in a 3rd and 19 situation and they complete a 20 yard pass for the 1st down. It looked like a blown coverage to me. It was like all the work done on 1st and 2nd down to get them into that position was for nothing. They ended up scoring a TD on this drive to make it 14-7.

The OP is correct that this is something that we see consistently going back years. It's not an isolated thing. Everybody sees it. That's why there's so many threads talking about it.

I get what you're saying. It was something that shouldn't have happened, but being up 28-7 or 35-10. It's hard to reignite that fire.


Sent from my iPhone 7 Plus [emoji336] using Tapatalk

 

[CajunCrimson]

Didn't bother me at all actually