Game Thread: OFFICIAL POST-GAME THREAD - Bama vs. Barn...

[TomFromBama]

Team played pretty poorly. Daboll didn't calm the best game. Jalen had arguably his worst game.

Time for the unpopular opinion. At this point I'm fully on board with having a legitimate QB competition going into next season. I don't think you do it before the bowl/playoff but going into next season I think you do. Jalen can make some really nice throws from time to time but he is wayyy too inconsistent. We have had consistent 3rd down issues vs elite defensive fronts going back to last year and it came up again today. Sure, there were issues at the end of last year with Kiffin but it was our weakness from LSU on last year. Jalen can win a lot of games for us but I want to win National Titles. Our team is often good enough to cover his flaws because few teams are balanced enough on both sides of the ball to really push us. I think most agree 2016 was arguably the most talented team under Saban and while we could have beat Clemson with this or that going right the reason we needed to be perfect is because our offense is limited.

There is a reason Calvin Ridley is freaking out all the time. And there is a reason we still can't convert 3rd downs.

Feel free to roast me for this but its time(IMO) to give Tua a real shot at the QB job.(after the bowl game at least)

Oh, you’ll get flamed to death, but I’ll jump into the fire with you.

This was a team loss - pretty much a poor showing by most of our players AND coaches.

But let’s face facts - two years in and Jalen is STILL a running back who can throw. He’s performed poorly in MOST of the tough games against the top defenses he’s faced, but we FORGET because he usually makes a Heroic run (or two) on a broken play when the defense has a bust and saves the day. Well, tonight it didn’t happen.

Jalen IS very talented and HAS made some great saves - MSU was such a save.

BUT, he got that job in the first place because the coaches refused to have a legitimate QB competition August a year ago. It’s time he faced a LEGITIMATE COMPETITION next spring and summer.

If he beats out Tua straight up, so be it.

Flame away.


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[B1GTide]

I don't think he's plateaued at all. I think the coaching staff has gotten enamored with him and have forgotten that he's not the only stud player on the field. Look at the first half rushing attempts and who they went to. The second half, we come out running the ball down their throats and just like we've done all year. We go away from it. Honestly, Hurts needs to be used like they used AJ McCarron, as a game manager. There is simply too much talent at the running back position, WR position, TE position to gameplan the bulk of the gameplan around Jalen Hurts.

It does us no good to have all these blue chip running backs when they aren't fed the ball enough on a consistent basis to get going. Running the ball is a rhythm, has a flow to it. You don't just plug a guy in there for one run, pull him, then not go back to him for three series. It simply doesn't work that way.

Offensive game planning and playcalling is the problem. Has been all year.

You could tell that Damien Harris was upset a couple of times when he was taken off of the field. Everyone is fine with sharing the load when you are winning, but gamers want the ball in their hands when the chips are down. DH deserves more carries more than Jalen deserves carries.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

But you are suggesting that Jalen should lose his job because of his performance tonight. That's how I looked at it when I read the post. Jalen is a sophomore who wasn't coached up properly last year. So in essentially, he had to start over and treat this year as a freshmen year... He improved a lot this year.... You have to look at the long picture, not the short picture.

I just said it's not about just this game. It's about a consistent issue. He has improved some for sure and again I'm not calling for him to just lose the job but I am calling for a real QB competition. Tua should have a shot. And Jalen is a sophomore not a Freshman. To give him a restart on this year is absurd.

I think that he deserves the criticism as much as he deserves praise when he plays well. Folks just need to keep in mind that he is a great QB who had a bad game. It happens to the best of them. Watson had many bad games at Clemson over the years. It is just a shame that it happened tonight.

Jalen isn't great. He is probably good and probably upperish tier but not great. Watson was great. The issue I have is that he has his bad games in the same situations (good defensive fronts) and has the same issues(3rd down passing, holding the ball too long, not seeing wide open wrs).

Basically, I think more has to go right with everyone else for Jalen to win than I think we would need with say AJ.

 

[TrueCrimson7]

Running back stats:
Kerryon Johnson averaged 3.5 yards per carry tonight. He got the ball 30 times.

Damien Harris entered the game averaging over 8 yards per carry. He averaged 8.5 tonight. He got the ball 6 times.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

You could tell that Damien Harris was upset a couple of times when he was taken off of the field. Everyone is fine with sharing the load when you are winning, but gamers want the ball in their hands when the chips are down. DH deserves more carries more than Jalen deserves carries.

Agreed. Especially earlier in the game. I'm getting really tired of these QB draws.

 

[RT27]

I am 100% calm. This isn't an emotional thought it is a rational one. I don't blame the game fully on Jalen there were a TON of issues today and coaching deserves a good amount of blame for the overall play today. This isn't just based on this game as I clearly said by pointing to last year. I didn't even say Jalen should lose his job just that there should be a legitimate competition.
One reason he ran out is cause until the last second he is trying to make a play, as no one else was making any. OC calling so many pass plays when blocking is terrible puts jalen behind the eight ball. WHY not run the ball, when we did it was working. WHY does Daboll keep wanting to pass when our pass protection is failing? Jalen is put in a passing situation while running for his life, no QB will succeed like that. When he had time this yr, not many times, but when he ha time to set and scan field he did great. Most of his passes are done under a lot of duress. The only reason we won most of the 11 wins was due to him. A pocket passer with no protection, and no run ability would have been knocked out by game 5 this yr. His feet kept us alive. His passes were good when he was not totally running for his life. I am sorry tebow would not have won 11 this yr with this OL.

 

[editder]

Sure, we can run more underneath routes, TE routes, RB Draws.....etc. We don't always need to have an "ace backfield", we can run a "jet sweep". Our passing game consists of everyone going long and if Jalen get's rushed let him try to run. He ends running or throwing the ball away more often than getting a positive play. We aren't setting up success.

LSU killed the barn with the jet sweep. You would think we would have seen it at least once tonight.

 

[Relayer]

I'm eating some homemade jambalaya. Sure is good, too.

just sitting down to a pound of bacon, 3 eggs, cheese toast, coffee. Feeling a little better already.. A little.

 

[TideMom2Boys]

Running back stats:
Kerryon Johnson averaged 3.5 yards per carry tonight. He got the ball 30 times.

Damien Harris entered the game averaging over 8 yards per carry. He averaged 8.5 tonight. He got the ball 6 times.

I would be interested to know why he got less carries as the season went on.

 

[LA4Bama]

Someone remind me, were Alabama fans calling for AJ to lose his job when Alabama lost?

Alabama has a top ten quarterback, and empirical data says this, not my opinion. I'm not even sure some people here realize statistically he still had a solid game. His rating was 135, that's like 10 points below AJ's average his sophomore year. His QBR was 75, that's good enough that if he did that every game he'd still be a top 20 QB. That's not even counting the Ridley got mugged plays, which erased what could have been some big plays. All this against a great defense. You're basically football ignorant if you watch this game and your biggest takeaway is that Hurts is the problem.

Hurts could have played better, but so could many other players. He also could have been better utilized..

I am not arguing that Hurts is the problem. First of all, this game was a complete team loss. Complete.

With that said, you can't ignore that a major weakness is the passing game. QBR is useful but potentially misleading, as you could have a great QBR without throwing a pass, because all it measures is production, not passing efficiency. Hurts's QBR is high because he saves so many broken passing plays with his legs. That's great and it is to his credit. But it remains there are a lot of broken passing play.

I've read the thread. I know people are blaming play calling and blaming the routes. People keep asking where are the quick short and intermediate throws, and where are the over the middle routes. I, too, want to know the same. But I'm just wondering, is it really play calling, or is it possible that the routes are called but Jalen just doesn't pull the trigger in time precisely because they are quick developing?

Additionally, I'll add that I agree with all who have asked why we got away from the running backs when they were doing so well. But in the end we need balance. I just don't see us as a balanced team. Whether we should embrace that identity is another question.

 

[RollinTider1335]

I don't think he's plateaued at all. I think the coaching staff has gotten enamored with him and have forgotten that he's not the only stud player on the field. Look at the first half rushing attempts and who they went to. The second half, we come out running the ball down their throats and just like we've done all year. We go away from it. Honestly, Hurts needs to be used like they used AJ McCarron, as a game manager. There is simply too much talent at the running back position, WR position, TE position to gameplan the bulk of the gameplan around Jalen Hurts.

It does us no good to have all these blue chip running backs when they aren't fed the ball enough on a consistent basis to get going. Running the ball is a rhythm, has a flow to it. You don't just plug a guy in there for one run, pull him, then not go back to him for three series. It simply doesn't work that way.

Offensive game planning and playcalling is the problem. Has been all year.

To this point in his career, he has certainly plateaued. The reason he has plateaued as a passer is because he basically has his second read is a run when he can’t get to Ridley. That’s why he misses so many other open WRs at second and third progressions; he looks to run almost immediately. It is apparent he is not seeing the field. Honestly, this may be coaching. Daboll might be telling him to do this.


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[B1GTide]

I would be interested to know why he got less carries as the season went on.

This is where Saban would give a platitude about sharing the load, and it is exacly that, a load (of manure). DH is being underutilized in the same way that Henry was underutilized at Alabama.

 

[BamaMoon]

I don't think he's plateaued at all. I think the coaching staff has gotten enamored with him and have forgotten that he's not the only stud player on the field. Look at the first half rushing attempts and who they went to. The second half, we come out running the ball down their throats and just like we've done all year. We go away from it. Honestly, Hurts needs to be used like they used AJ McCarron, as a game manager. There is simply too much talent at the running back position, WR position, TE position to gameplan the bulk of the gameplan around Jalen Hurts.

It does us no good to have all these blue chip running backs when they aren't fed the ball enough on a consistent basis to get going. Running the ball is a rhythm, has a flow to it. You don't just plug a guy in there for one run, pull him, then not go back to him for three series. It simply doesn't work that way.

Offensive game planning and playcalling is the problem. Has been all year.

All due respect. Jalen Hurts is not the QB on the roster to be used like AJ McCarren in a game manager role.

I'm not saying bench JH and play Tua because of one game, but Tua is the guy you play like AJM and then he would actually be better when the play broke down because, while he's not JH running the ball he's not bad at it either.

My critique with how JH is being used is coaches are asking him to do things he's not real good at every time he does a straight drop back in the pocket.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

Again, there is a reason that we haven't been able to convert 3rd downs vs elite defenses. We have had 3 different play callers (yes I am aware of the issues but still).

And there is a reason Ridley has a fit 1000 times a game.

We have an absurd amount of talent at WR and TE right now and I don't want to waste it. If Tua gets his shot and absolutely bombs then so be it, let's roll with Jalen. But at this point I think its time for Tua to get a real shot.

 

[RT27]

I hope they play Tua in bowl game, maybe then all the jalen haters will see, not even Tua can make plays with no blocking. Tim Tebow would not have done any better tonight on his best day with this OL blocking,or better said NOT BLOCKING. 2 Daboll needs to run de ball, this is not the NFL, we still run the ball in college. He needs to break that habit, or better yet Nick needs to tell him to break that habit. When we ran we got yards and first downs, why not keep doing it until they stop it? This is not the NFL, running works here, we have wasted so many plays considering our running backs and their stats. Until someone shuts it down RUN THE BALL. Pass enough to keep the run working, or better yet pass deep after running the ball a lot. Suck up those backs then go deep. I am no coach but when were we shut down running tonight? Most of the failures on series was when we passed or did not make the pass. For the most part we ran good the few times we did it. That is play calling not QB.Jalen was just trying to make lemonade out of lemon calls.

 

[jps1983]

Damien Harris and Bo ran well (particularly Harris), but we ran a qb draw a ridiculous amount of time.

There is a lot of blame to go around, but ultimately I think the bulk of it falls on the offensive personnel decisions and play calling decisions

 

[CrimsonProf]

I'm a little worried about the locker room to be honest - these are real issues.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

I agree we should have run the ball more(especially in the 1st half) but someone explain to me what you are supposed to do when you run on 1st and 2nd down and still need 5+ yards? Could our passing concepts be different? sure but does anyone know if Jalen can read different concepts? I'm not convinced. He also needs to learn to pull the trigger.

 

[RTR2u]

I'm a little worried about the locker room to be honest - these are real issues.

What do you mean? Just curious...

 

[rolltide_21]

This is where Saban would give a platitude about sharing the load, and it is exacly that, a load (of manure). DH is being underutilized in the same way that Henry was underutilized at Alabama.

Well, except for the year he won the Heisman trophy


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