Bama Game Thread: [Part II] Official PostGame Thread Bama vs. AU...

[selmaborntidefan]

If you look at the rule referenced (Rule 3-35323e you get this:
"When Team A sends in its substitutes, the officials will not allow the ball to be snapped until Team B has been given an opportunity to substitute."

IOW, this has nothing to do with that play. It was a trick formation and we missed it. Not cheating, just clever.

He’s still nothing but a high school coach running study hall plays that basically admit, “I can’t beat you straight up playing football.”

I have zero respect for that numb nuts.

 

[DzynKingRTR]

08, all I want is some honesty. When officials screw up, simply tell me. I may not like it, but I can accept it.

I don't think they are capable of admitting they are wrong.

 

[AUDub]

I would like to hear the SEC officials respond to the question. It won't change the result of the game, but I would like to hear their response.

The "intent to deceive" phrase in the rule is being stretched past its breaking point here. It's meant to prevent chicanery like this, not what Gus did.

 

[IndyBison]

So, to clear my feeble mind, Auburn broke the highlighted part above by lining their punter up as a wide-out. Is that correct? That would fulfill the "confuse opponents" part of the rule, especially since they left their qb in the shotgun position.

That is not what happened here. This is no different than a team bringing in a new RB in a wildcat formation and lining up the QB as a wide out.

An example of where this rule applies is a team sending out 3 players and only bringing in 2. The 3rd player doesn't actually leave but hides out near the sideline. The ball is then snapped and he's running free down the sideline because the defense didn't notice he was hiding over there.

The ARs listed (Approved Ruling) are sample plays in the back of the book to further demonstrate or explain the rule. Another example was a scrimmage kick formation where one of the backs yells to another one to leave the field. He starts running toward the sideline as if he's leaving and the ball is snapped. The player running off turns up field and runs a route.

Bringing in a player who normally plays one position and have him play another is not a foul. That would prevent you from running any kind of fake kick play if the "kicker" doesn't actually kick. I put kicker in quotes because by rule he isn't a kicker until he actually kicks it. Until then he's just a back in a scrimmage kick formation or player in a free kick formation.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

That is not what happened here. This is no different than a team bringing in a new RB in a wildcat formation and lining up the QB as a wide out.

An example of where this rule applies is a team sending out 3 players and only bringing in 2. The 3rd player doesn't actually leave but hides out near the sideline. The ball is then snapped and he's running free down the sideline because the defense didn't notice he was hiding over there.

The ARs listed (Approved Ruling) are sample plays in the back of the book to further demonstrate or explain the rule. Another example was a scrimmage kick formation where one of the backs yells to another one to leave the field. He starts running toward the sideline as if he's leaving and the ball is snapped. The player running off turns up field and runs a route.

Bringing in a player who normally plays one position and have him play another is not a foul. That would prevent you from running any kind of fake kick play if the "kicker" doesn't actually kick. I put kicker in quotes because by rule he isn't a kicker until he actually kicks it. Until then he's just a back in a scrimmage kick formation or player in a free kick formation.

I disagree. When the intent is to confuse the opposition into leaving a 12th man on the field, it's a violation...

 

[B1GTide]

The "intent to deceive" phrase in the rule is being stretched past its breaking point here. It's meant to prevent chicanery like this, not what Gus did.

So there was no intent to deceive?

 

[TIDE-HSV]

So there was no intent to deceive?

Of course there was, an intent to cause the other team to commit a rules violation. It's totally different from the example the visiting official has laid out. Those are all to tempt the other team to make a bad play, not commit a rules violation. If the rule doesn't cover this, then what the hell does it cover?

 

[B1GTide]

Of course there was, an intent to cause the other team to commit a rules violation. It's totally different from the example the visiting official has laid out. Those are all to tempt the other team to make a bad play, not commit a rules violation. If the rule doesn't cover this, then what the hell does it cover?

Trying to get Dub to see it.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Trying to get Dub to see it.

I agree with Dub. If you read the rule, it's stuff like the UM link he posted, not adding confusion by lining up a player in an unusual position.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I see exactly why Saban reacted to it as he did...

 

[AUDub]

So there was no intent to deceive?

Yes, but a lot about football is deception. There is a framework, though. Things like simulating subs are beyond the pale, but what Gus did isn't that far off the mark from a fake FG or punt.

 

[MajorFan42]

Yes, but a lot about football is deception. There is a framework, though. Things like simulating subs are beyond the pale, but what Gus did isn't that far off the mark from a fake FG or punt.

Those are actual football plays. This is more like a hard count. You are attempting to cause the other team to commit a foul. But the hard count keeps the defense from timing up the snap and getting an advantage. It has a legitimate tactical purpose other than just causing a penalty.

 

[AUDub]

I agree with Dub. If you read the rule, it's stuff like the UM link he posted, not adding confusion by lining up a player in an unusual position.

Yes.

And by rule, there's really no such thing as "position" when it comes to the rules. Gus can put anybody he wants at split end like he did with Siposs (and as long as they're wearing an eligible number, which he was), and he's basically just another receiver at that point, no matter what it says on the roster.

 

[Cruloc]

My question is still...was Waddle headed off the field? Saban said they had trouble getting his attention, once they sent the regular defense back on, how long did it take to get Waddle's attention. The ball wasnt snapped, how often is the 12 men on the field called before the ball is snapped?

Waddle should have been paying attention is what it sounds like, but how would he know standing half the field away.

 

[AUDub]

Those are actual football plays. This is more like a hard count. You are attempting to cause the other team to commit a foul. But the hard count keeps the defense from timing up the snap and getting an advantage. It has a legitimate tactical purpose other than just causing a penalty.

That's a good comparison.

And Gus did have a legitimate tactical purpose, which was to keep a very dangerous return man off the field.

 

[imauafan]

08, all I want is some honesty. When officials screw up, simply tell me. I may not like it, but I can accept it.

I have respect for honesty. I have no respect for cover-ups and excuses.

 

[AUDub]

My question is still...was Waddle headed off the field? Saban said they had trouble getting his attention, once they sent the regular defense back on, how long did it take to get Waddle's attention. The ball wasnt snapped, how often is the 12 men on the field called before the ball is snapped?

Waddle should have been paying attention is what it sounds like, but how would he know standing half the field away.

The rule doesn't dictate that the ball be snapped, only that a snap is imminent.

Gus is Simple Jack a lot of the time, but his inner idiot savant side took hold here and Bama got caught napping.

 

[CB4]

The substitution thing was bush league but within the framework of the rules.

The questionable holding call on the first drive, the phantom face mask, the questionable late hits out of bounds, the non review of the Williams catch/non catch strip & recovery, the non ejection of Seth Williams for throwing a punch, and the PF called on Shane Lee for shoving Bo Nix as he parallels the LOS on an RPO (right after Bo had run almost an identical play for 15 yards) are what infuriated me. And those are just the ones that come to mind immediately.

Then you top it off where, if nothing else, these officials at the very least violated the basic principle of fair competition by proffering a review where none was needed and gifting the competition three free points.

This is a multi million dollar league. Championships and playoffs and sometimes the jobs of coaches are on the line. You simply cannot have garbage officiating like this.

I’ve seen a bunch of football in my 60 years on this earth. That by far was the worst officiated game I’ve seen start to finish in my life.

 

[DzynKingRTR]

The substitution thing was bush league but within the framework of the rules.

The questionable holding call on the first drive, the phantom face mask, the questionable late hits out of bounds, the non review of the Williams catch/non catch strip & recovery, the non ejection of Seth Williams for throwing a punch, and the PF called on Shane Lee for shoving Bo Nix as he parallels the LOS on an RPO (right after Bo had run almost an identical play for 15 yards) are what infuriated me. And those are just the ones that come to mind immediately.

Then you top it off where, if nothing else, these officials at the very least violated the basic principle of fair competition by proffering a review where none was needed and gifting the competition three free points.

This is a multi million dollar league. Championships and playoffs and sometimes the jobs of coaches are on the line. You simply cannot have garbage officiating like this.

I’ve seen a bunch of football in my 60 years on this earth. That by far was the worst officiated game I’ve seen start to finish in my life.

There was a similar play to the catch/noncatch strip and recovery on MNF tonight. It was reviewed and called a catch and fumble.

 

[Cruloc]

The substitution thing was bush league but within the framework of the rules.

The questionable holding call on the first drive, the phantom face mask, the questionable late hits out of bounds, the non review of the Williams catch/non catch strip & recovery, the non ejection of Seth Williams for throwing a punch, and the PF called on Shane Lee for shoving Bo Nix as he parallels the LOS on an RPO (right after Bo had run almost an identical play for 15 yards) are what infuriated me. And those are just the ones that come to mind immediately.

Then you top it off where, if nothing else, these officials at the very least violated the basic principle of fair competition by proffering a review where none was needed and gifting the competition three free points.

This is a multi million dollar league. Championships and playoffs and sometimes the jobs of coaches are on the line. You simply cannot have garbage officiating like this.

I’ve seen a bunch of football in my 60 years on this earth. That by far was the worst officiated game I’ve seen start to finish in my life.

I said out loud on that catch, strip, fumble....he made a football move, that's a fumble.....then louder saying, review it....then yelling at the tv, how is that not reviewed he made a football move.

And the Lee hit on Nix which was more of a shove after the kid had just run for a big gain....was extremely ticky tac and maddening.

Horribly officiated game, and if theyd admit fault I'd be somewhat ok...explaining how they are right just makes it worse.