BREAKING trump wins, why?

I'm pleasantly surprised by the volume of posters that didn't join the MAGA movement this cycle. I always knew we have a lot of smart and educated ppl here on Tidefans, and it warms my spirit to know most of yall see through the Trump mania nonsense, and see his policies for what they are, a true divergence from a democracy.

Agreed. I grew up in a very conservative family, but there was always compassion and discussion along the way. You could pick up the paper and read well regarded conservative writers who were driven by fact and reason. That is just not there anymore.

I consider myself a centrist and a moderate, but find I can’t find many decent conservative sources of news so I end up having to make do with center left sources. I demand factual accounting and find these sources are good.

The forums here have been the best place to find reasonable conservative views presented in a thoughtful manner.
 
Having a few days to think, I find myself in general agreement with a few comments - and I've not read every single post, so if I reiterate something said more eloquently, so be it.

Any political consultant will tell you one of several mantras, and this one is crucial: "Every election is a referendum on the incumbent." By that fact alone, Harris was going to have an uphill battle, but there were a few reasons I thought she might overcome it:
- no race ever featured a "challenger" who had been an incumbent President and left the way Trump did
- it's always a bit sketchy exactly how much an heir (VP) gets the blame when you remember a substantial chunk of voters don't even know who the VP is (I will touch on the dilemma the Dems found themselves in momentarily)

===============

Loosely based, EVERY Presidential election is about two things, generally called peace and prosperity and categorized under the terms "the economy" and "national defense." Both have several aspects that define them and are not as simple as "the economy grew at x% last quarter" or "we are not in a ground war anywhere."

I'm willing to bet most posters here are familiar with "it's the economy stupid," the mantra that James Carville put on the wall in "the War Room" of the 1992 Clinton campaign. From beginning to end, they hammered "the economy."

But what did they mean?

I make no pretense to be an economist, but according to what I'm seeing online, the economy grew at 2.7% in the third quarter of 2024...and Harris got clobbered despite a number of commentators (and TF posters) telling us this was a phenomenal economy. But the economy grew at 2.7% in the third quarter of 1992, when everyone agreed the economy was TERRIBLE!!! Now I could be obtuse and say, "Why do folks who think the economy was so wretched in 1992 that Bush needed to go think Biden should have been reelected when the economy was growing at the same rate," but of course, that's where we admit there's NO SINGLE monolith known as "the economy." Unemployment last month was 4.1% but in October 1992, unemployment was 7.2%, so obviously the situations weren't the same.

So what happened?

Well, my Longhorn buddy - a labor union Democrat type - called me this morning, and we spoke for about 40 minutes. His take was, "I knew my party was in trouble when my groceries went from $140 a week to over $200 a week and I was looking at what the house mortgage rates were when I bought mine compared to today." And I heard from numerous people - including a coworker with a trans child - who said pretty much the exact same thing, PRICES. So some of you who want to arbitrarily dismiss this might ought to stop and realize these aren't cobbled samples from "Jaywalking" on the old "Tonight Show," these are real people saying this, and I heard it more than I ever heard it before.

(Anecdote: I was 23 when Bush lost in 1992 and telling my Dad that I couldn't understand it. Despite loathing Clinton as I do, he said, "Because look at the number of unemployed and stores that survived the Depression that are gone," and I said, "I'm doing better than I was just two years ago." At which point he snorted, "Because it didn't affect you - but that doesn't mean it didn't affect enough people to vote out the incumbent").

As far as national defense, Harris was stuck with the botched pullout of Afghanistan (particularly when she said she wouldn't do anything different than Biden but more on that in a moment), things are generally peaceful.....and...well, illegal immigration is part of national defense (or at least security).

Here's a hint: if your response to someone saying, "I'm fine with immigration, I have a problem with illegal immigration" is "you're a racist" (which seems to be par for the course), now you know why your side lost.

Now.....Harris's candidacy...
======================

I have gone from musing that the whole debacle of replacing Biden was interesting to "you guys tried to pull a Donald Trump and it backfired on you." There's a ton of blame coming out of the woodwork like "Biden should have announced he wasn't running early".....by liars who told all of us that when the camera was off, he was John Travolta on "Saturday Night Fever" active-wise. Besides, you don't announce your lame duck status until it's necessary. When the special counsel on the classified docs for Biden came out and said he was basically a nursing home patient that couldn't remember stuff, Democrats and the media (pardon the redundancy) went into high scale, "HOW DARE YOU!"

These are the same pretentious twits who NOW all of a sudden blame Biden for not stepping aside when they were telling us all he didn't need to step aside.

In the years to come - about the time the media revises history and tells the rest of us that Trump got elected on the basis of "the racist Southern strategy that worked for Nixon/Reagan/Bush/Bush/Trump" - the revisionism is going to swing hard against Harris, and I think in this case (unless we learn something along the lines of a Sarah Palin debacle behind the scenes as in "Game Changer") it is grotesquely unfair. (Let me add that JThomas66 has covered very eloquently about how Harris could corner the anti-Trump vote but had a harder time giving things for people to vote in favor of her "for" beyond the base.
 
Harris essentially received a coronation when the bottom dropped out in the polling for a Biden who was already trailing. The party had no choice at that point thanks to 60 years of identity politics - as well as the fact she was first in line to be President anyway, so may as well make an asset of it.

When I first saw her on stage at a debate in the fall of 2019, I thought she had some serious potential as a candidate...right up until the moment she stopped two breaths short of saying Biden was a racist and her own polling imploded. I thought her an attractive candidate (and folks - it matters, like it or not, which is why my fat behind won't ever seek office), a conventional (at the time) liberal with the asset of having been a prosecutor. She then proceeded to take some incredibly extreme positions (or positions easily made to look extreme), including praising the "defund the police" movement. And then she became so giggly and word salad that George W. Bush was Professor Kingsfield by comparison. Her own approval ratings were right alongside Biden as "very bad."

but okay....what else was she supposed to do?

A Vice-President is saddled with the failures of the administration he (she) serves but never gets any credit for the successes. It is no accident that since New York gang founder and garlic shaker creator Martin Van Buren (gang sign "8") ascended to the Presidency in 1837, EVERY VP that has tried has lost - except one, 1988 Bush (and he might have lost had the Democrats not nominated a Bostonian with the personality of a jar of turtle wax).

Those criticizing Harris with "she should have criticized positions A, B, C that Biden took," how long do you think it would have taken Cheeto Jeezus to turn that into, "See, even she knows he's wrong on this"? Now, I will admit she should have prepared a better answer to that question, like maybe, "Of course there are some things I would do differently, there are things every President would do differently including President Biden with the benefit of hindsight. I'm sure former President Trump, even though it's unlikely he would admit it, would have handled the pandemic better than he did if given the chance. But that's not really the issue. Every Vice-President disagrees with some things the President they serve does, but we only have one President at a time. But let's note also that revisiting the past with hindsight never changes what happened, it just means we learn from it."

She didn't run anything close to a perfect campaign - in part because there's no such thing.

WHAT SHE DID RIGHT
- she whipped Trump senseless in a debate (proving what I've said for years, debates don't really matter anymore)
- she took the "let Trump talk himself into defeat" tact that Biden won with in 2020 (it made sense to try it again)
- she didn't disavow Biden (which wouldn't have worked anyway)


WHAT SHE DID WRONG
- "you're at the wrong rally" was a flop of a heckler comeback
- she appeared too many times to completely disavow positions she'd taken ("that was five years ago")

One note on this "Kamala policy" thing: it's about 15% accurate and about 85% nonsense.

She got handed a nomination because there wasn't much choice and at the time her disapproval rating was quite high. She then got through the honeymoon phase, her numbers rose, and she vivisected Trump in the debate, largely by letting the blathering idiot make a fool of himself as though there's a seven-course meal in Springfield, Ohio of canine and a six-pack. Suddenly, she was expected to take a position on everything from aardvarks to zygotes overnight. But the average voter does not care or even understand policy all that much, the press pretends to do so. The voters need a few pithy phrases that summarize something they might like (Clinton: "cut middle class taxes by 10% now"), but in general you have the blue team, the red team, and about 20% of the electorate that likes A on the red and B on the blue colored by his or her daily life.

While it's true Harris could have done a better job of giving at least a few reasons "for" her candidacy beyond abortion (proving once and for all that is not the surefire electoral winner - even after Dobbs - that a lot of folks have claimed for 50 years now), she was stuck with policy decisions made before she was nominated.

Sorry so long. As I said, I voted for the woman or more precisely AGAINST tariffs and an insecure US Capitol, but I was also under no delusions she would have an easy ride in 100 days.
 
I was there waiting as well - willing to vote for a major party candidate for the first time since 1992. All I got from Kamala was passing the buck on inflation and making the wealth pay their fair share in taxes. For her, the government can never deficit-spend too much. And those that pay the lion's share of taxes need to pay more. She's an idiot or a liar and did not earn my vote.
I did not see that at all but I wish she could have done it successfully. Recent inflation has been brewing for years and was caused by the policies of nunmerous administrations by both political parties going back for quite awhile. When it finally happens whoever is in the whitehouse will be blamed regardless of their contribution.
 
Me: "Cane's Chicken is fast food for white people."

My kids: "That's RACIST!"

Their chicken is totally devoid of spice. Oh, but I'm told, "You HAVE to get the SAUCE."....which I sampled, and learned it was nothing but mayo and ketchup mixed up.

I'm a Southern boy. Raised on gumbo, red beans and rice, chili made the right way (with masa flour) and Popeye's spicy wings. Living here in the MIdwest, there is a huge meme forum on Facebook devoted to making fun of how Iowegians love bland food.

Cane's is as bland as any food I've ever sampled. When I do a drive-thru with the kids, I always ask, "Can I get this extra spicy?" LOL
I'm CDub and I endorse this statement...
 
It's become a big chain so the bigger the chain the more they have to "flavor it down" to appease all taste buds. It's nothing to write home about.
Was driving from Houston recently and was going through LA and we stopped by RC. Never had it so I was somewhat interested since I had seen all the commercials and the line was long. I ate one chicken finger and I turned to my wife and I said "this s... sucks!". The bread was the only thing halfway decent. Like many of you, I am a flavor and spice guy. I could eat jalapenos and hot sauce on my cheerios. I'm sure the older Cajuns in LA are less than impressed with the younger generation for many things, but add their taste buds to the list. At end of the day they can blame themselves. Get the damn kids in the kitchen at five and teach them MawMaw's gumbo and jambalaya recipe instead of stopping by McDonalds like a bum.
 
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Me: "Cane's Chicken is fast food for white people."

My kids: "That's RACIST!"

Their chicken is totally devoid of spice. Oh, but I'm told, "You HAVE to get the SAUCE."....which I sampled, and learned it was nothing but mayo and ketchup mixed up.

I'm a Southern boy. Raised on gumbo, red beans and rice, chili made the right way (with masa flour) and Popeye's spicy wings. Living here in the MIdwest, there is a huge meme forum on Facebook devoted to making fun of how Iowegians love bland food.

Cane's is as bland as any food I've ever sampled. When I do a drive-thru with the kids, I always ask, "Can I get this extra spicy?" LOL
why is every single "secret sauce" or "special sauce" just one thing with mayonnaise added to it?
 
Was driving from Houston recently and was going through LA and we stopped by RC. Never had it so I was somewhat interested since I had seen all the commercials and the line was long. I ate one chicken finger and I turned to my wife and I said "this s... sucks!". The bread was the only thing halfway decent. Like many of you, I am a flavor and spice guy. I could eat jalapenos and hot sauce on my cheerios. I'm sure the older Cajuns in LA are less than impressed with the younger generation for many things, but add their taste buds to the list. At end of the day they can blame themselves. Get the damn kids in the kitchen at five and teach them MawMaw's gumbo and jambalaya recipe instead of stopping by McDonalds like a bum.

Here's the thing about New Orleans. Granted, they still have dirty rice @ Popyeye's in New Orleans, but you see beaucoup Raising Cane's establishments. I asked a buddy who is from down there, and he said that, after Katrina, a lot of Yankees and people from other parts of the country moved down there to rebuild and gentrify. Bringing with them their bland palates.

But I must admit that getting dirty rice was like finding an old friend. You don't see dirty rice on the menu here in Iowa at Popeye's.
 
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