Mass/Active Shooters, Part **FIVE**

jthomas666

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I'll give one solution that my sons HS has implemented this year that has paid HUGE dividends. Beginning this school year our school district has banned all cell phones during school hours. You can have your phone on you but it better not be out. The consequences for having it out are severe.

Is anybody interested in the short-term results of only one month of school? The fights on the middle school and HS level have dropped by 80% compared to year over year for the same time frame. That's right, 80%. These kids live in a perpetual digital world that they never unplug from and the result is 100 times the social stress that comes along with being a teen. It's amazing that removing just that component has made that type of positive difference on our campuses.
It's not just that cell phone use is prohibited; it's that student know that there will be consequences if they break the rules. At my wife's last school, there was no discipline; students regularly mouthed off to teachers, and there were multiple fights every day--often involving the same students. They knew nothing was going to happen.

At her new school, there are consequences to breaking the rules. The principle is upfront about them and doesn't hesitate to enforce them. There have only been a couple of fights this fall.
 
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crimsonaudio

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I wonder when it will not be "too soon" to do something about these? :unsure: :rolleyes:
Like what?

Glocks are ubiquitous and the fully-automatic switches (which are already illegal at the federal level) can be made with a 3D printer.

What's the solution to this other than rounding up the goons that do this crap and literally never letting have a day outside of prison for the rest of their lives? Otherwise you're just playing a game of whack-a-mole that won't begin to subside until long after you and I are dead.
 
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4Q Basket Case

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Like what?

Glocks are ubiquitous and the fully-automatic switches (which are already illegal at the federal level) can be made with a 3D printer.

What's the solution to this other than rounding up the goons that do this crap and literally never letting have a day outside of prison for the rest of their lives? Otherwise you're just playing a game of whack-a-mole that won't begin to subside until long after you and I are dead.
I’d be curious: How many mass shootings have been committed with a fully automatic weapon owned and wielded by a Class 3 permit holder?

If it’s a lot (I don’t think it is), that would reinforce the idea of weapons being the problem.

If it’s few to none (as I think it probably is), the issue reverts to background searches. Which, as an owner of multiple firearms, I fully support.
 
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4Q Basket Case

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That just shows the law is working as intended and extending it to other devices would likely be effective as well. Very few if any automatic weapons are ever used in crimes because they are so difficult to get and the penalties for having them illegally are so high.
I think you're referring to laws around background checks. If so, I fully agree.

I'll also point out that Class 3 background checks also apply to the purchase of devices that convert semi-automatic weapons into fully automatic ones -- like the 3-D printed Glock tabs. Of course, I think few to none of the people who use converted Glocks in crimes (like the mass shooting in Birmingham a couple of days ago) have a Class 3 permit.

Background checks for all guns would have interesting unintended consequences. As in, I think the cohort that would fail a background check, and therefore be denied a permit, will skew toward younger black and Latin populations. Which also just happens to be a group that commits an amount of gun crime in excess of their proportion of the population.

Now you have a law that the left / "progressive" wing really likes (background checks) disproportionately affecting blacks and Latinos. Both being groups that progressives tend to be really sensitive to being disproportionately denied anything they apply to the government for.

If background checks for all guns are instituted -- and while I support them, I don't think they will be -- it'll be interesting to see how that conundrum is resolved.
 

crimsonaudio

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I'll also point out that Class 3 background checks also apply to the purchase of devices that convert semi-automatic weapons into fully automatic ones -- like the 3-D printed Glock tabs. Of course, I think few to none of the people who use converted Glocks in crimes (like the mass shooting in Birmingham a couple of days ago) have a Class 3 permit.
For clarification, the only auto sears (the devices used to convert semi-automatic weapons to fully automatic) that are legal for purchase in the US are those manufactured and registered before 1986, which precedes the Glock auto sear. Other than someone with license to manufacture machine guns in the US (requiring an 07 FFL and a class 3 SOT), every single person in possession of a Glock auto sear (they're incredibly common now) is breaking existing federal firearms law(s) under the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986.
 

NationalTitles18

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I think you're referring to laws around background checks. If so, I fully agree.

I'll also point out that Class 3 background checks also apply to the purchase of devices that convert semi-automatic weapons into fully automatic ones -- like the 3-D printed Glock tabs. Of course, I think few to none of the people who use converted Glocks in crimes (like the mass shooting in Birmingham a couple of days ago) have a Class 3 permit.

Background checks for all guns would have interesting unintended consequences. As in, I think the cohort that would fail a background check, and therefore be denied a permit, will skew toward younger black and Latin populations. Which also just happens to be a group that commits an amount of gun crime in excess of their proportion of the population.

Now you have a law that the left / "progressive" wing really likes (background checks) disproportionately affecting blacks and Latinos. Both being groups that progressives tend to be really sensitive to being disproportionately denied anything they apply to the government for.

If background checks for all guns are instituted -- and while I support them, I don't think they will be -- it'll be interesting to see how that conundrum is resolved.
Nice straw man you've created with minorities, background checks, and "leftists".

But it's not just background checks regarding automatic weapons. There's much more to the law with that.

And all gun purchases should have background checks. All of them.

All I hear from certain people is why we can't do this or that and that the laws don't work, but when was the last time a true automatic weapon was used in one of these shootings?

And nevermind the asinine SCOTUS ruling on bump stock conversions which move the trigger and make it an automatic.

Reasonable people who believe in gun rights can still want background checks and limitations on what weapons are available to the public.
 

4Q Basket Case

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Nice straw man you've created with minorities, background checks, and "leftists".

But it's not just background checks regarding automatic weapons. There's much more to the law with that.

And all gun purchases should have background checks. All of them.

All I hear from certain people is why we can't do this or that and that the laws don't work, but when was the last time a true automatic weapon was used in one of these shootings?

And nevermind the asinine SCOTUS ruling on bump stock conversions which move the trigger and make it an automatic.

Reasonable people who believe in gun rights can still want background checks and limitations on what weapons are available to the public.
As I stated in my post, I do support background checks for purchase of all guns. I'm just pointing out some unintended consequences.
 
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NationalTitles18

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As I stated in my post, I do support background checks for purchase of all guns. I'm just pointing out some unintended consequences.
The unintended consequences, as you call them, are not a barrier and have nothing to do with the underlying root causes of the problems you present in your scenario or the solutions to those problems.
 

crimsonaudio

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Update: "only" three dead, six injured. Still horrible, but hopefully that number stays.

"At a press conference on Monday afternoon, authorities said that five people — including the suspected shooter — were killed and five others were injured in the shooting. But police later revised the death toll, saying "three people are deceased" and six others were injured."
 

Bazza

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Over 42,000 people died as the result of gun injuries in the U.S. in 2023, NIHCM reports. The number of people killed by firearm violence, a leading cause of premature death, grew by nearly 43% between 2010 and 2020.

For every person killed in a shooting, more than two people survive. In 2023, 35% of gun deaths were homicides, 56% were suicides, nearly 4% were unintentional shootings, 3% were police shootings and less than 2% were mass shootings, according to the report.

The report also delves more deeply into mass shootings. While these events tend to capture the public’s attention the most, mass shootings make up very few of the annual gun deaths in the U.S. But the annual total of mass shootings has spiked from 414 in 2019 to over 650 in 2023.


Emphasis on:

In 2023, 35% of gun deaths were homicides, 56% were suicides, nearly 4% were unintentional shootings, 3% were police shootings and less than 2% were mass shootings, according to the report.
Does it seem to you that people get more upset when mass shooting gun violence occurs than when homicide gun violence occurs?

As the article states.....total deaths in 2023 were 35% by homicides....and 3% by mass shootings.

Why aren't we as concerned by the largest percentage.....56%....from suicide?
 

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