Greg Byrne calls for Alabama fans to 'fight back'

[KrAzY3]

Greg needs to be approaching Alabama Power, Drummond Coal, etc...

Alabama Power already has seats in one of the end zone clubs (I got to use them once, heh).

The issue here is those companies are fleas in the big scheme of things. Drummond is worth 2 billion, I'm sure Gary's assets have been dispersed, Alabama Power is worth like 750 million but not like that is in anyone's hands in particular. Their entire annual marketing budget is probably less than Alabama's NIL budget.

The companies are just are not there relative to competitors. SMU got boosters worth 15 billion in a room together and they came up with 200 million. Phil Knight is worth 30 billion, donated over 1 billion to Oregon. Larry Ellison (bought Michigan's QB) is worth 200 billion, so a 10 million dollar QB is pocket change for his wife. I mentioned FedEx, they're backing Memphis and have spend tens of millions, but they're worth 100 billion.

I hear people bring up these relatively small companies and people like Bear Bryant Jr. and it's just... not even remotely on the level of these other places.

It's a rich man's game, which I guess is part of the reason he's trying to crowd source it. Byrne's already been trying to do that Crimson Standard thing and we still have old Coleman, so clearly the big money people (which is more like the medium sized money people if we're being honest) are not up for the task.

 

[NoNC4Tubs]

I always considered Byrne to be one of the best ADs in the country, if not THE best. No longer…

Yeah, I don't think he thought this move all the way through...

 

[NoNC4Tubs]

I do feel the need to reiterate this. Under the current framework Byrne can not re-direct department funds to NIL. The new stuff coming through will allow that somewhat, but it's still capped meaning they are still handcuffed.

The only way to do things like keep a Caleb Downs from leaving is if the fans themselves, separate from the university have their own collective to do things like that. Otherwise when a situation like that arises the only thing to do is watch them leave.

Mind you, I understand saying fine, screw it, let them leave. I don't however understand the anger at Byrne. He literally can't make do it himself, he's not allowed to. He doesn't want Alabama to lose players because his hands are tied, that's a pretty reasonable reaction.

That sounds like an internal policy adjustment to me...

 

[NoNC4Tubs]

If we really want to talk about this, I vote we move it to the NS forum. I've said all I can within the bounds of this forum.

G'head, toss it out there ..

 

[bamajas]

Alabama Power already has seats in one of the end zone clubs (I got to use them once, heh).

The issue here is those companies are fleas in the big scheme of things. Drummond is worth 2 billion, I'm sure Gary's assets have been dispersed, Alabama Power is worth like 750 million but not like that is in anyone's hands in particular. Their entire annual marketing budget is probably less than Alabama's NIL budget.

The companies are just are not there relative to competitors. SMU got boosters worth 15 billion in a room together and they came up with 200 million. Phil Knight is worth 30 billion, donated over 1 billion to Oregon. Larry Ellison (bought Michigan's QB) is worth 200 billion, so a 10 million dollar QB is pocket change for his wife. I mentioned FedEx, they're backing Memphis and have spend tens of millions, but they're worth 100 billion.

I hear people bring up these relatively small companies and people like Bear Bryant Jr. and it's just... not even remotely on the level of these other places.

It's a rich man's game, which I guess is part of the reason he's trying to crowd source it. Byrne's already been trying to do that Crimson Standard thing and we still have old Coleman, so clearly the big money people (which is more like the medium sized money people if we're being honest) are not up for the task.

It's got to be people rich enough that their desired return isn't financial but personal/sentimental (which is what Ellison's wife apparently told Portnoy)

 

[NoNC4Tubs]

I haven’t been able to go to games since about 2013.

I was on the Tide Pride wait list from about 2007-2013.

I sold most of them and then got out because the overall price associated with buying the tickets, the concession food, gas, staying somewhere etc priced me out pretty quick.

Heck… the TV part isn’t even cheap… Youtube TV just sent out emails a few weeks ago about a price raise to $85 a month.

Lol

I'm paying my part with my YouTubeTV subscription...

 

[rjtide]

Alabama Power already has seats in one of the end zone clubs (I got to use them once, heh).

The issue here is those companies are fleas in the big scheme of things. Drummond is worth 2 billion, I'm sure Gary's assets have been dispersed, Alabama Power is worth like 750 million but not like that is in anyone's hands in particular. Their entire annual marketing budget is probably less than Alabama's NIL budget.

The companies are just are not there relative to competitors. SMU got boosters worth 15 billion in a room together and they came up with 200 million. Phil Knight is worth 30 billion, donated over 1 billion to Oregon. Larry Ellison (bought Michigan's QB) is worth 200 billion, so a 10 million dollar QB is pocket change for his wife. I mentioned FedEx, they're backing Memphis and have spend tens of millions, but they're worth 100 billion.

I hear people bring up these relatively small companies and people like Bear Bryant Jr. and it's just... not even remotely on the level of these other places.

It's a rich man's game, which I guess is part of the reason he's trying to crowd source it. Byrne's already been trying to do that Crimson Standard thing and we still have old Coleman, so clearly the big money people (which is more like the medium sized money people if we're being honest) are not up for the task.

agree wholeheartedly with your assessment. this is the same reason there will not be a NFL franchise in AL unless BHM (or HSV) get 3-4 major fortune 500 companies to relocate/establish major presence in those municipalities or are 'homegrown'

 

[gman4tide]

Greg needs to be approaching Alabama Power, Drummond Coal, etc...

Bryant bank...

 

[NoNC4Tubs]

Alabama Power already has seats in one of the end zone clubs (I got to use them once, heh).

The issue here is those companies are fleas in the big scheme of things. Drummond is worth 2 billion, I'm sure Gary's assets have been dispersed, Alabama Power is worth like 750 million but not like that is in anyone's hands in particular. Their entire annual marketing budget is probably less than Alabama's NIL budget.

The companies are just are not there relative to competitors. SMU got boosters worth 15 billion in a room together and they came up with 200 million. Phil Knight is worth 30 billion, donated over 1 billion to Oregon. Larry Ellison (bought Michigan's QB) is worth 200 billion, so a 10 million dollar QB is pocket change for his wife. I mentioned FedEx, they're backing Memphis and have spend tens of millions, but they're worth 100 billion.

I hear people bring up these relatively small companies and people like Bear Bryant Jr. and it's just... not even remotely on the level of these other places.

It's a rich man's game, which I guess is part of the reason he's trying to crowd source it. Byrne's already been trying to do that Crimson Standard thing and we still have old Coleman, so clearly the big money people (which is more like the medium sized money people if we're being honest) are not up for the task.

Not sure where you are getting this number from, but it is far short of reality. I used to work in that field and that number is ridiculously low...

The point I was making is that corporations/businesses can make these contributions in a way that they can write them off...

 

[KrAzY3]

It's got to be people rich enough that their desired return isn't financial but personal/sentimental (which is what Ellison's wife apparently told Portnoy)

Exactly, it's like one of us going to the Target and buying a Christmas present. To put it into a slightly different context though, Ellison spending that money was like Alabama's biggest booster spending $10,000.

I hate everything about it, but I'm darn sure not getting mad at Byrne or thinking that Alabama forgot to ask the right rich guy or something.

We just need someone to take one for the team and marry the right person. Miriam Adelson is single.

agree wholeheartedly with your assessment. this is the same reason there will not be a NFL franchise in AL unless BHM (or HSV) get 3-4 major fortune 500 companies to relocate/establish major presence in those municipalities or are 'homegrown'

Basically short of marriage, the only thing that could really change things is as you described, or you know a major startup happens inside of the state or a graduate has a major startup. It takes a lot of zeros to be able to throw around millions without taking a major hit.

When I was first looking into NIL back when California passed that stupid law I was trying to come up with legitimate NIL (advertising) partners and I realized pretty soon that there really weren't any of note within the state.

Not sure where you are getting this number from, but it is far short of reality. I used to work in that field and that number is ridiculously low...

I just looked at their market cap. Even if you bump that up significantly, they're not set up to be a player because they don't benefit from exposure like a lot of other companies would. No one is going to go out and buy electricity from Alabama Power because Alabama Power got naming rights or something. They're still a small fish relative to the pond we're talking about. You need a company so big they don't care about wasting millions.

There are literally no companies like that in Alabama. The state doesn't even have a top 400 company.

 

[Cruiser]

Bryant bank...

Small player; they only have 18 locations

 

[NoNC4Tubs]

Exactly, it's like one of us going to the Target and buying a Christmas present. To put it into a slightly different context though, Ellison spending that money was like Alabama's biggest booster spending $10,000.

I hate everything about it, but I'm darn sure not getting mad at Byrne or thinking that Alabama forgot to ask the right rich guy or something.

We just need someone to take one for the team and marry the right person. Miriam Adelson is single.

Basically short of marriage, the only thing that could really change things is as you described, or you know a major startup happens inside of the state or a graduate has a major startup. It takes a lot of zeros to be able to throw around millions without taking a major hit.

When I was first looking into NIL back when California passed that stupid law I was trying to come up with legitimate NIL (advertising) partners and I realized pretty soon that there really weren't any of note within the state.

I just looked at their market cap. Even if you bump that up significantly, they're not set up to be a player because they don't benefit from exposure like a lot of other companies would. No one is going to go out and buy electricity from Alabama Power because Alabama Power got naming rights or something. They're still a small fish relative to the pond we're talking about. You need a company so big they don't care about wasting millions.

There are literally no companies like that in Alabama. The state doesn't even have a top 400 company.

No disrespect intended, but you really don't know how that sector operates. You are looking at an accounting trick. Electric utilities do NOT lose money. Their rates are ALWAYS allowed to be set to be profitable.

You couldn't find a single power plant worth less than $750m.

But to get the topic back on track, how much does Bama need annually to be competitive in the NIL market?

$15-20M annually?

That number is doable under the current situation. Greg is sandbagging us...

 

[TiderJack]

SIAP but here is Byrne's explanation and we had a significant deficit in 2023 not including gifts which is unusual. We typically churn out of a profit and I saw where food and medical expenses have skyrocketed.


We are encouraging people to be involved whatever level they can. And obviously some folks can’t. We understand that. … Listen, it’s reality. We have to deal with reality,” Byrne said on Thursday’s Next Round Live podcast. “I think there’s an assumption that, hey, we’re Alabama, we’ve got more money in the Vatican. And that’s not accurate. We have a budget. We have to adhere to that budget.”

Alabama’s athletic department operated at a $12.1 million defict during the 2023 fiscal year, per the program’s latest NCAA Financial Report and reported on by the Tuscaloosa News. That didn’t include roughly $14.3 million in gifts collected.



Alabama reported a $199.9 milion in total operating revenue and $212 million in total operating expenses between July 1, 2022 through June 30, 2023. The team’s 2024 fiscal year report has yet to be released.

 

[KrAzY3]

No disrespect intended, but you really don't know how that sector operates. You are looking at an accounting trick. Electric utilities do NOT lose money. There rates are ALWAYS allowed to be set to be profitable.

You couldn't find a single power plant worth less than $750m.

But to get the topic back on track, how much does Bama need annually to be competitive in the NIL market?

$15-20M annually?

That number is doable under the current situation. Greg is sandbagging us...

I'm not an insider, but given that I was provided their seats I know people who know people, heh. I did look up annual revenue, I know it's in the billions and given I know someone who once found an error where Alabama Power undercharged them by half a million and didn't even notice, I understand the scale a bit.

I'm just trying to explain the scale of the competition. For instance, Michigan paid 10 million for their quarterback recruit. That's one player, the new roster sizes will be 105 on scholarship.

15-20 would be a signing class if you're not going too big (A&M reportedly hit 25 million), retention would likely exceed that amount. If you were trying to form a championship roster you could end up with costs more than double that. As of right now Greg can't even pay any NIL funds.

Believe me, Greg isn't sandbagging. He's competing against places where their boosters have extra zeroes ours don't have, so they can fund the departments then turn around and fund NIL too.

 

[RammerJammer14]

Yes that was always the argument, but that is not what this is.
Players are able to sign autographs and do commercials etc. to make some money off their name. I'm ok with that. That is what NIL was set up for. Not to just give out piles of cash.

Athletes may not have been monetary compensated but they are compensated and farily well. They are getting an education, housing, food, clothes, they are paid when they do team functions and not in school. The money the school makes is reinvested in facilities, tutors, programs to be successful that the average student does not have access to. There can be an argument as to what is "fair" but they are compensated pretty good.

Universities are still not sharing their $$ which is why they have to ask us. That may change this summer when the revenue sharing is decided upon, but even if that happens that will just take away money from something already in the budget and they will need a fundraising campaign for what cannot be funded. They will still come to the fans. I do not fault the players or Byrne, they are just playing in the sandbox they have.

This is an insane sytem where the University begs fans for cash if they want to have a successful program. "If you don't give we can't compete with other programs." In Byrne's defense ( or Kelly or whoever is saying it) they are not wrong.

I choose not to participate. If that means Bama is not as competivie so be it, but I am not donating $$ to a system where a 2nd string SO CB can make demands on a school because he can get seven figures somewhere else. Then what happens after spring ball or after next season. Again I do not entirely blame the athletes, this is the system, but it is broken. If I have cash to donate to this I would rather donate to a worthy charity instead. Maybe to St. Jude to help kids that really need it.

These players need to have contracts just like the coaches. Don't perform and you can get fired. You want to change schools, there is a buyout attached. You (or the new school) pays compensation to the current school in order for you to leave. The argument has always been coaches leave whenever they want, so should the players. There is a buyout attached to the coaches. They leave, they owe a buyout. If atheltes want the same freedom, they should have to pay the same price.

I view this NIL stuff as the equivalent of somebody driving around with a GoFundMe and Instagram link stuck on their back window that says “donate to help me go to Hawaii for spring break!”

That stuff just immediately gets my back up. The absolute nerve of it. We as everyday fans with everyday jobs are currently being asked to crowdfund a bunch of unproven kids so they can make millions of dollars to not even be student athletes. I don’t give a damn how good a kid is or if I like his play or even like him personally- there is no way in hell he is going to try to guilt trip or blackmail me into stuffing dollar bills in his pocket so that he won’t run away and go play for another team (I was going to say school but school has nothing to do with it anymore). The hubris of it makes me think much less of everyone involved. I refuse to participate in this garbage, just as I refuse to donate to some 20 something narcissist asking for donations for spring break. I have more respect for myself than that, and everyone else should too.

 

[NoNC4Tubs]

SIAP but here is Byrne's explanation and we had a significant deficit in 2023 not including gifts which is unusual. We typically churn out of a profit and I saw where food and medical expenses have skyrocketed.


We are encouraging people to be involved whatever level they can. And obviously some folks can’t. We understand that. … Listen, it’s reality. We have to deal with reality,” Byrne said on Thursday’s Next Round Live podcast. “I think there’s an assumption that, hey, we’re Alabama, we’ve got more money in the Vatican. And that’s not accurate. We have a budget. We have to adhere to that budget.”

Alabama’s athletic department operated at a $12.1 million defict during the 2023 fiscal year, per the program’s latest NCAA Financial Report and reported on by the Tuscaloosa News. That didn’t include roughly $14.3 million in gifts collected.



Alabama reported a $199.9 milion in total operating revenue and $212 million in total operating expenses between July 1, 2022 through June 30, 2023. The team’s 2024 fiscal year report has yet to be released.

Wouldn't that be a net positive of $2.3M...?

Accountants can make the numbers mean anything you want them to mean...

 

[NoNC4Tubs]

I'm not an insider, but given that I was provided their seats I know people who know people, heh. I did look up annual revenue, I know it's in the billions and given I know someone who once found an error where Alabama Power undercharged them by half a million and didn't even notice, I understand the scale a bit.

I'm just trying to explain the scale of the competition. For instance, Michigan paid 10 million for their quarterback recruit. That's one player, the new roster sizes will be 105 on scholarship.

15-20 would be a signing class if you're not going too big (A&M reportedly hit 25 million), retention would likely exceed that amount. If you were trying to form a championship roster you could end up with costs more than double that. As of right now Greg can't even pay any NIL funds.

Believe me, Greg isn't sandbagging. He's competing against places where their boosters have extra zeroes ours don't have, so they can fund the departments then turn around and fund NIL too.

True, but I am saying that Greg is overstating our needs (sandbagging)...

 

[TiderJack]

Wouldn't that be a net positive of $2.3M...?

Accountants can make the numbers mean anything you want them to mean...

It could be but I don't think gifts are considered revenue so not sure that would show up on the loss/profit report. Maybe some of our accountant posters can elaborate.

 

[NoNC4Tubs]

It could be but I don't think gifts are considered revenue so not sure that would show up on the loss/profit report. Maybe some of our accountant posters can elaborate.

Yep!

So the gifts could be used at Greg's discretion.

 

[davefrat]

I understand the angst about the pay of coaches, but it is the same basic argument against non-profit CEO's making a lot of money as well. There's a guy making 16 million a year running a nonprofit and while that sounds obscene, that begs the question of what value he brings? Nick Saban certainly brought the value to his student athletes, they didn't get ripped off. There's data to show they went on to make far more than his pay relative to equally ranked recruits.

So, who was getting taken advantage of in this situation? It was bad optics, sure but if you consider young athletes as students, then getting them the best teacher possible did provide value. Giving them a cheaper coach like Mike Shula certainly wouldn't have been doing then any favors.

That's part of where people lost the plot. They just saw the number, but didn't understand the value proposition. Likewise, the athletic departments were raking in revenue on sports and then spending said revenue on the athletes. It was a closed loop, no one was dipping into it and pilfering it, in fact the opposite was happening. Boosters, state, and city officials, all sorts of people were actually pouring millions into these athletic departments (in same cases they were the ones paying the coaches salary anyway).

Imagine for instance a scenario where you do 100K worth of work a year, but you get 200K in benefits. Are you getting ripped off? No, and neither were the athletes, the complaint came down to they wanted more cash compensation.


Once you factor in the new numbers I'm not sure a lot of those sports could survive anyway, the math doesn't seem to work out.

When a coach makes $8mm a year and the star players who are the product fans are consuming are getting $100k in tuition etc., the feeling of being undervalued is understandable.

The NCAA could largely have avoided this if they’d been willing to loosen the purse strings voluntarily, but instead, they doubled down on a broken model of amateurism that most people saw as a farce, and now it’s total madness.

And I think a more apt comparison would be an NFL coach’s salary relative to the players, because big time college football isn’t a charity or non-profit.

NFL coaches don’t make nearly as much as the best players make.

Many of them get paid less than the top tier college coaches get paid.